{"text":" It's been a long week, but happy to spend it with you. It has been a long week, it was starting decently quiet, but I think today specifically it got pretty loud with this SEC speech, the SEC is introducing Project Crypto. I thought it was absolutely incredible, definitely a capstone for everything that's been going on in this administration. Yeah. Before we get into the Project Crypto, we're going to talk about Ethereum's birthday. We'll talk about some of the ETH Treasury companies that are coming online, the Roman Storm case, as well. We are all waiting with baiting breath, but we just learned that the verdict is not going to be heard until at least Monday at the earliest. There's pump versus Zora things to talk about, but let's go ahead and start with Ethereum's birthday. Happy 10th birthday to Ethereum. There was just a flurry of activity going around Ethereum Twitter, just all these different people talking about their lore with Ethereum, because now that Ethereum is 10 years old, all these different Ethereum community members have different walks of life, different stories to tell. I said, how Ethereum has impacted their life. Something I thought was pretty cool was this Believing Something campaign, which was a marketing campaign, which I thought was organized by the Ethereum Foundation. I was sick. This is the first ever Ethereum foundation marketing push. Turns out it was actually just an engaged community member who just thought of, hey, let's get a few companies to do this Believing Something, but the ETH in something is replaced by the ETH logo. Everyone can brand it as their respective company, and on the 10th birthday, we'll just get people to tweet this out. I think maybe 10 organizations were in there with it to in order to kickstart this thing, the brand itself, the graphic itself, was simple enough that the designers of respective companies could all get together, and it turned out to be, I think Ethereum is the best marketing push ever. Anyways, happy new 10th birthday to Ethereum, Hissy, what were your thoughts on anything you did that was special, what do you think? It was really hard-warming to see all the stories about Ethereum early days and looking at some of the core devs who were reflecting on the journey that Ethereum has been on. I got to be honest though, one, I hate these anniversary-type things. I think it's just kind of the way that I'm built. Anniversary of the big white paper anniversary. Yeah. These kinds of things. You always get journalists hitting you up, you're like, what's your, do you have comments on the fact that X has just turned X many years old? And I'm, no, I don't have any comments. I didn't have any last year. I don't have any this year. So I got an LLM to write something that somebody asked me to give a statement. To be honest, I think the fact that, I don't mean to be a buzzkill, but the fact that the Roman storm case was going to closing arguments yesterday made it hard for me to feel very celebratory. There was actually a tweet that David Morris highlighted yesterday that he just learned that the beacon chain for Ethereum was actually deployed from the tornado cash contracts. And so, tornado cash itself is kind of forever enshrined in the history of Ethereum. And so, there's a lot that rise on this, on this, this trial. And that was, I was, I was thinking like it's hard to celebrate when there's such a big question kind of weighing over the industry because the cypher punk movement that led to Ethereum, the encapsulation of that really is the case of Roman storm. Yeah, here's a, here's a said tweet. Y'all, I was just notified of something mind-boggling in the current context. The beacon chain contract for all state teeth was deployed by an address funded by tornado cash. And like Roman was just like one, one of the many developers who, you know, would otherwise be celebrating ETH's 10th birthday with a story of his own about how Ethereum changed his life and how he decided to become an open source contract developer. I remember there was a recent tweet from Vitalik Udren who donated a bunch of money to Roman storm's case and said something to the effect of, oh, I actually encouraged you to go create this application, this privacy application. And so I would, it would be dishonorable if I did not support you in your time of need and then came with like a, a, a wavy donation to Roman storm. So yeah, like there's a bunch of mixed feelings I would say going around. We're going to be bullish in a second talking about the SEC's project crypto where we're reminiscent and nostalgic of talking about Ethereum's 10th birthday. But like, I would agree with you, there is this big cloud overhanging us. As Roman, Roman storm's jury goes home for the weekend. They're going to take Friday off, which means, which means Roman doesn't know the outcome of his case for the next three days, 72 hours. So I can't imagine just the pressure that is, that is weighing on him right now. Yeah, there's a, there's a storm in New York. I hope everybody who's in New York is going to be staying safe. But it was in a way almost poetic that at the same time that, you know, Roman storm's trial is undergoing. There's a storm that's better in New York. And different words, well, I guess it's part of the, part of the birthday. It was pretty cool to see Ethereum being celebrated at the NASDAQ. So Joseph Lubin and SBET and consensus and a bunch of other people I was there included. We're all, we were all down there at the NASDAQ ringing the closing bell. And so it was pretty cool to see 10 years of Ethereum being broadcasted in the center of, of, of Times Square. And so if the sentiment was in crypto, how it was two years ago, three years ago, with the Gary Gensel administration. I don't think the 10 years of Ethereum would have been that powerful for Trad5, but it is now a story that Trad5 can kind of lean into right after the coin base has done particularly well. Robin is issuing a layer two on Ethereum. The circle IPO has on gangbessers and, you know, Wall Street is just into Ethereum right now into crypto. The 10 year anniversary of Ethereum just has a better halo around it and Trad5 terms. And I'm grateful for that at the very least. Getting into double digits, I think, is special. One thing that I often tell people when I'm telling them why crypto is now kind of inevitable for the next generation of people thinking about their, their capital allocations is that people who are entering into college today, you know, if you're, you know, 19, 20, 21, you don't remember a time before Bitcoin existed. Right. Bitcoin was created 18 years ago. Ethereum now is 10 years old. That means in five years, Ethereum is going to be 15 years old and Bitcoin is going to be, you know, I guess that would be 23. And really, what that means is that there's going to be generation that doesn't remember time before Ethereum was created. And the way in which we think about, wow, you know, Bitcoin was just a macular conception. It's the first, you know, it's never going to have everything is always going to be less Lindy than Bitcoin. And I think that to some extent, obviously, that's true. But it's also true that the delta between these assets gets smaller and smaller the older they are. Right. And so right now, we think of like, oh, you know, Salana is like this new thing and Ethereum is the old thing and, you know, can the new thing ever displace the old thing because the old thing is more Lindy. You know, right now, Salana is what caught five years old, Ethereum is 10 years old. So Ethereum is twice as old as Salana. And that feels right now like, wow, that's so much more history and it's so much more august by the fact that it's been around for 10 years. But at the same time, like, you know, give it another 10 years and Salana will be 15 years old. Ethereum will be 20 years old. And they're not going to feel so different in enough time. So in addition to it being Ethereum's 10 year birthday, it's 10 years old. It's also got 10 years of consecutive uptime. And when you contrast that with Salana's 1.5 years of consecutive time, that feels a little bit of a different story. And so I will. Brought to you by Bankless. A little bit on Brought to you by Bankless, that's right. That's right. Nice. Nice. It's not entirely equivalent. All right. Let's see if it's the project crypto. All right. Here's a beat out of his seed saying the SEC's new project crypto is the most bullish thing I've seen in a long time from a regulator. Read the speed. It's incredible. Almost all tokens are not securities. They want to discourage decentralization and Kubaki theater. I don't know that word. Haseeb Kubaki. Kubaki theater. Excuse me. American should not get excluded by IP and VPN blocks. Let me just get into some of the details here. So this is a speech from Paul Atkins. It's on the website. There's a link in the show notes so you can go read it. And there are five things. Five main points that the SEC that Paul specifically wants to lay down. I want to take some time actually with you Haseeb and go one by one through those things. Before he gets to those five things, he lays up the context and a little bit of the history of the SEC and he really just does a very good job going through a little bit of the history. I actually enjoy this kind of as just a history lesson. He talks about before the electrification of the American stock market, these paper certificates had to be physically shipped up and down Wall Street and that's how they were being traded. They were buying and selling them. They were going to be shipped around physically by people with little baskets running around Wall Street. And apparently I didn't know this, but on Wednesday the stock market would close so that these like paper like paper pushers could catch up with the trades being made. And so the stock market on Monday and Tuesday would trade and there was enough volume that all of a sudden there's a lag of all of these stocks certificates being traded. And so they had to shut down the stock market on Wednesday so they could catch up. And Paul, Paul Atkins highlights this, here's a quote. The breakdown over an antiquated system was described by the SEC chairman at the time as the most prolonged and severe crisis in the securities industry in 40 years. Firms failed, investor confidence plummeted. He uses this metaphor to demonstrate why America's financial markets need to move on chain proactively rather than retroactively, at least that's my interpretation. Here's another quote from Paul. So today I would like the world to go on notice that under my leadership the SEC will not stand by idly and watch innovations develop overseas while our capital markets remain stagnant. To achieve President Trump's vision of making America the crypto capital of the world, yes, SEC much holistically consider the potential benefits and risks of moving our markets from an on chain off chain environment to an on chain one. We are at the threshold of a new era in the history of our markets. As I mentioned earlier today, do you hear that storm? Do you hear that lightning hissing? Yeah, that's crazy. Coming through my microphone. Yeah, that's what we're talking about. Finishing the quote. As I mentioned earlier today, I'm announcing the launch of Project Crypto, a commission-wide initiative to modernize the securities, rules, and regulations to enable America's financial markets to move on chain. Okay, so like I said, before we get into the five things, vibe check about this setup and the speech as a whole. I mean, it's pretty dramatic. It's very clear that Paul Atkins, like he's been brought in to the SEC and his whole job is to do this massive overhaul from the Gensere era. And he immediately opens with giving some historical context, but also distancing himself from his predecessor and making very clear this is a new day for the SEC. I thought it was a very, very powerful setup for what is really, I think probably the first really substantial policy-setting speech that Atkins has given for the new SEC since he's come in. Let's get into the first big highlight that he said. So quote, first, we will bring crypto asset distribution back to America. My interpretation of this is when crypto assets are created when they're minted, when they're, you know, air drop or whatever. We want to do that onshore in a way that makes everyone feel good and the capital in your stays onshore. So this is trying to move away from like the foundation model, allowing startups themselves to be the asset issuers and those startups be inside the United States. That's my takeaway from this section. What's your big takeaway here? Yeah, I agree with that. I think, you know, when I say the decentralization kabuki theater, that's what I'm referring to is like people setting up a labs locally and then getting a Singapore or a Swiss foundation that has a separate board that has a this or that. And he's like, look, why are we wasting so much time and energy on that stuff? Remember, Paul Atkins is an advisor to reserve protocol, which is a stablecoin. So he's seen this firsthand. He knows what that's like. He sees the amount of just kind of stupid wheel-turning that people have to do in order to have some nominal compliance with the law. We said, well, how would that law then? Let's just like make sure that entrepreneurs are doing the right thing. So he gets it. The second one, second to achieve the president's goals is incumbent on the SEC to ensure the market participants have maximum choice when and where to custody and trade crypto assets. I've said before, the right to self-custody of one's private property is a core American value. I think this one is just a nail, a further nail in the coffin of Operation Shookpoint 2.0. Is that kind of the main reasoning here? That's a part of it. It's also the president has stated many times that he wants to protect the rights of self-custody. There was some guidance if you remember from the SEC SAP 121, which got very famously litigated last year about allowing banks to custody crypto. Basically, I think what he's saying here is that, look, we're not going to get in the way of custody, whether it's self-custody or whether it's custody on behalf of banks. Let's just get the right answers. Let's not be prescriptive about it. Yeah, so we're getting rid of the whole hosted versus un-hosted wallet issue, and we're just saying, hey, individuals can host crypto assets. Stop talking about it. That's just going to be the way that it is. Exactly. I'm a huge fan, obviously, as somebody with a podcast called Bankless. Third, a key priority of my chairmanship is to allow market participants to innovate with, quote, super apps. I am often asked, what do you mean by a super app? Plain and simple securities intermediaries should be able to go to offer a broad range of products and services under one roof with a single license. A broker dealer with an alternative trading system should be able to offer trading in a non-security crypto assets alongside crypto asset securities, traditional securities, and other services like crypto asset staking and lending without requiring 50 plus state licenses and multiple federal licenses. Reading between the lines, I'm guessing this is whatever coin base is doing is like a big benefit to them because they want to do securities. I'm assuming Robinhood is also what's the vibe of this particular thing? To me, that's simplifying licenses. So everybody in crypto has always been very worried about, do I have the right licenses to offer the product I'm offering? And the answer from the SEC historically has been, don't ask us. We'll tell you later when we sue you whether or not you got the right licenses. So this has also caused a lot of financial institutions and a lot of fintechs to be very careful about offering crypto. And we know why. You know, Robinhood got sued, Coinbase got sued. What they're saying here very clearly is that we're going to make it really easy to understand what licenses you need. And we're going to make it as few as possible. And we are going to make it difficult for individual states to bring suits against you. Because of course, like one of the difficulties of building the next coin base and competing with Coinbase is that how are you going to get licenses in all the states that Coinbase has licensed operating in? That's a really part of doing business in America. When you know, federal wide licensing makes it really easy to just say, look, I got the one license. Now I can operate in America and of story. Amazing. Okay. Yeah. So I live in New York. There's a number of crypto services that I just don't have access to because New York is apparently really hard to get a license to. So that would be gone. I would assume. I mean, the SEC can't do that in one fell swoop, but they can certainly try and start pushing in that direction. Okay. And then the fourth one. Fourth, I have directed the commission staff to update and created agency rules and regulations to unleash the potential of on-chain software systems in our securities markets. On-chain software comes in many shapes and sizes. Some of these systems are truly decentralized and not operated by any intermediary. They're on-chain software systems have an operator. Both types of on-chain software should have a place within our financial markets. What's the impact of this one? So this is all about the idea that, you know, you do not need to pretend to be running a decentralized system in order to be able to operate in crypto. If it's centralized or if it's a point to centralization, that's okay. You can operate on equal footing. There might be different regulatory requirements, but it's not a no. It's a, okay, here are the rules for this side, here are the rules for that side. What we want to make very clear is that, you know, under the previous administration, it was very unclear if Uniswap is allowed to exist. And everything the previous SEC was doing was looking at something like Uniswap, which is fully on-chain, fully decentralized and said, either one, this is breaking the rules, or two, we're going to find individual vectors of centralization and say, oh, you run a website, you run a VPN, you run a this thing, you run a that thing, you have, you have, you know, indexers. This is a point of centralization and that's how we're going to got to you, okay. Here, he's saying very clearly, we're done with that. You tell us clearly what you're doing, we'll tell you what rules you have to follow, but both get to exist. And I would imagine that this is particularly relevant to, like, lay it, for example, just one example, is layer two is with a centralized sequencer. There's been conversations of a layer two of the centralized sequencer, it's never going to be Wall Street ready. Well, Robinhood's definitely going to have a centralized sequencer, and Robinhood's trying to use their chain to benefit their own products, probably just straight in the Robinhood app. Same thing with Coinbase, using Morpho on base, which again, base has a centralized sequencer, and they're using it on the Coinbase front end. Something like this, where the existence of a centralized sequencer is just an irrelevant detail for whether it's compliant or not for integration into some front end somewhere. Well, so it's not an irrelevant detail. And at the end of the day, there's a policy speech, so we don't have a lot of detail here about what exactly he means, but it does mean that there's probably going to be some framework into which something like base fits. One could have imagined, you know, a couple of years ago, that maybe what base is doing is just illegal. And why is it just illegal? Like, well, you know, Coinbase is running the sequencer. They could decide to stop the transactions if they wanted. Therefore, this is a broker dealer or a money transmitter or something. It's doing all sorts of things that are somehow falling under, you know, other financial laws. I think what he's signaling here is that that's not our intention. We want to allow for there to be these kind of mixed levels of centralization that are not going to make you under some extremely onerous regime. We're going to figure it out. Give us some time, but we're going to figure it out. But this is the spirit of what we're moving towards. Mm-hmm. And then the fifth, the last one. Finally, innovation and entrepreneurialism are the engines of the American economy. President Trump has described America as a nation of builders. Under my leadership, the commission will encourage our nation's builders rather than constrain them with red tape and one size fits all rules. While the commission is actively considering industry requests that could jump sorry innovation actively, we're also contemplating an innovation exemption that would allow registrants and non-registrants to quickly go to market with new businesses, business models, and services that do not neatly fit within our existing rules and regulations. What does this mean? So this is huge. Yeah, this is like very pro-starred. I don't think anyone knows what it means. It sounds like some kind of sandbox. It sounds like you built a startup. So you remember Hester Purs had this proposal for like a sandbox of sort of pre-decentralization. You're building a new crypto product. It's not progressive decentralization. They get it. They know these terms. It's not ready to be decentralized. It doesn't make sense for the dev to really take a step back or to lose admin key control. That's okay. We're going to give you two years or three years to show that you can build this into decentralized product. If you can't or if it doesn't make sense to make it decentralized, there will be a regime under which you can get licensed or follow certain rules or make certain disclosures and operate in this semi-centralized fashion that is still permissionless and still open. Or if you can be fully decentralized, you don't have to do anything. You can be in this much, much lighter touch regime. But either path is open to you. But we're not going to make it such that you have to wait a year and get licenses and pay millions of dollars in order to go build a proof of concept as a crypto startup. The idea that you have to be pseudonymous or you have to hide or you have to go to overseas and block Americans. In order to go try out a new startup idea, that is over. That is what Paul Atkins is signaling here. So each of these five things that we went through, I'm going to call them the trees. I want to zoom out and talk about the forest. There are some early ideas in crypto. Even on Bitcoin talk forums, you can go and find ideas about tokenized securities, securities becoming tokens on a blockchain one day. Or blockchain using blockchain technology to settle securities transactions. And that has always been the grand vision. Shout out to Anthony Pompleyano in 2017 talking about tokenizing everything. This is that kind of stuff. And the initial bit of the speech from Paul Atkins, he really talks about what happened when the financial technology lagged the financial needs of the industry in the pre-electronification era of American stock market. What I'm seeing here is these five things, these five trees. When you zoom out and look at the forest, he's trying to push American capital markets on chain. That's my big takeaway. Would you agree? I think that's absolutely right. He also makes very clear the break from his predecessor. He says early on in the speech, most tokens are not securities. Basically saying that this idea that we all have to constantly live under fear and like recite the how we test under our breath, that's over. And so that means if he's saying that most tokens are not securities, of course there are many tokens that have revenue. There are many tokens that have earnings. We have done so much as an industry to try to contort these protocols and hide the ways in which they are economically valuable. And he's saying, look, you don't need to do that anymore. It's over. The idea that you need to hide the team, you need to hide the economics, you need to hide the way in which obviously things that go on chain are valuable and value accruing. I think that to me is one of the biggest takeaways that really changes the way you should be thinking about tokens, is that we don't need to play pretend anymore. Which is just, I think bullish for all of our sanity, our piece of mind. We can talk about these things as they are. And like I said, not having to contort our ways of just operating as an industry so we can just be more transparent and maybe a little bit less confusing to investors and capital markets. What happens next? So we got this speech. So what is just a speech? What happens next? How does this become real? Well, so in order for this speech to become real, there's two things. Either one, we need rulemaking. And two, there's obviously enforcement as the other avenue through which policy becomes instantiated. We've already seen them dropping a lot of cases. So most of the big cases that the industry want to drop have already been dropped by the SEC. So there's nothing really more for them to do other than through show, through enforcement actions, what they like and what they don't like. So we're going to see when they go after bad actors, that shows like, hey, these are the things that we're still punishing. And when they have something that happens in broad daylight of, let's say hyper-liquid doing buybacks, if they don't go after hyper-liquid for doing buybacks, they're saying, it's fine. You can do buybacks. It's okay for a token to be valuable. That does not in and of itself hit all the prongs of the how we test and thus make this thing in a registered security. The other thing, of course, is that we need to see rulemaking. Rulemaking is not taken place yet. A lot of that rulemaking is informal. A lot of that is just vibes, right? A speech is vibes. You see some SEC commissioner says something in a speech. You can say, like, look, he said this in a speech. Therefore, that's a kind of defense if you actually are in a lawsuit with the SEC. But it is not actually a formal defense. A formal defense is there was a rule, the SEC made. It was a formal rule. Here's the rule. I follow the rule. So the SEC's job is to create those rules and to, of course, get feedback from the industry as they do so. And that's when we're going to have real clarity, short of the clarity act itself getting passed and making these laws that the SEC then has to enforce. Do you worry that there's going to be some timidness about people being bold and starting to actually live by this divide because, you know, in three years there could be, you know, a Elizabeth Warren-Coded Democrat administration in power. And then all of a sudden, all of these vibes are just gone. So maybe it's a little bit of this, like, you know, companies are kind of like waiting for other companies to go first. It would take a while for this to kind of become the rules of the road or, like, literally the rules of the road but just really instilled as a culture in the crypto industry. I think it depends on the particulars. So if you're talking about foundations, right? The reason why people do these overseas foundations is not just for the SEC. There are a lot of agencies involved in the way that you think about your exposure if you're building up a crypto protocol. And if not every, you know, if the IRS is not saying the same thing that the SEC is saying, you might not be so quick to decide, hey, I'm just going to launch a token out of a USC quip. Right. At the same time, the other thing I think you want to take into consideration is that crypto projects historically are very, very risk-taking in general. So I think mostly the answer is yes they will. For most of these things, if it's like, hey, you can just start talking about your token and its cooling value. Or you can start, you know, just launching projects with less progressive decentralization and worrying not so much about whether or not you have admin key control in order to protect your users. Yeah, people will start doing that right now. People will start doing that yesterday. So I think in general, one of the big questions I've always asked myself is why is it that even before Pollackins came in, Trump got elected. Even in the Gensers era, why were there so many crypto projects in New York, in America, right? Why were they even here to get sued in the first place? And the answer I think comes from a very deep part of entrepreneurship and of crypto itself is that entrepreneurs are just optimistic. They're kind of a rationally optimistic, right? They just sort of think like, yeah, you know, Gensers going after all these guys. But when Gensers talks to me, he's going to realize that like, my thing is actually okay. And if Gensers never saw a project, he thought it was okay. Everything he thought deserved a lawsuit. But people's like, they sort of believe like, okay, even if Gensers doesn't get it, the judge will get it. The judge is going to see that. I'm in the right, I'm doing the right thing. Somebody in New York will believe my case. Exactly, exactly. So I actually think that, yeah, entrepreneurs were in a dime. They were going to start just taking a lot more risk and being a lot more aggressive on seeing this be. Hey, I'm kind of into it. I've got another bankless take to get you to check, check me on his team. So again, another take brought to you by bankless. All of this stuff that Paul Atkins has talked about is uniquely bullish Ethereum. Because of all the things that we've seen over the last six months, again, like I'll make some claims here. The Circle IPO Ethereum coded. Because Ethereum is a stable coin chain. This is Tom Lee's line. Circle got born on Ethereum. Coinbase, the world's largest crypto company that's public in the American stock market. Really Ethereum coded. Like has that circle partnership. Has a base layer too. Robin Hood launching its Ethereum layer too. Just explicitly Ethereum coded. And so when Paul Atkins is like, yes, without saying any particular name of any blockchain in particular, we're going to move Americans financial markets from being off chain to being on chain. Yeah, like which ecosystem, which blockchain ecosystem is going to be the main beneficiary of this speech? I claim its Ethereum. Do you believe with my claim? Would you like to check me on that claim? What do you think about that? You're not wrong in the sense that like, Wall Street mostly thinks of Ethereum as the chain where they're going to do their shit. At the same time, I'm remembering, as you're telling me this, the debate that we had in New York. Yeah. I think you took the anti-theorem position. I took the pro-theorem position. For the sake of the exercise. For the sake of the exercise. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course, for the sake of the exercise. What was this like January or something? It wasn't that long ago already. Maybe not. Maybe it was like March. But I think that was when I was saying I thought Ethereum had bottomed, and that the turnover in the Ethereum, I think the EF had just turned over. And my view is that this is the beginning of the bottom. This is the beginning of the change, and Ethereum is basically architecting their rebound now. And you were bearish. You thought it was too late. You thought they'd given up too much. Again, from the sake of the exercise. From the sake of the exercise, obviously. But honestly, when you were reading the beginning of that, like the history of the SEC, and how they took Wednesdays off, in order to catch up on the records, I thought that was going to be your jab against Salana. So I'm glad to see that you pulled your punch there. I think, look, here's what I think. I think the fight is on. I think Ethereum does have an advantage, because they're 10 years old. They fit the double digits, and that's really special. And Wall Street cares about that. Wall Street absolutely cares about that. They care about uptime, they care about consistency, and they care about, I want to be where the money is. It's that old joke about the bank robber. You know, why do you rob the bank? That's where the money is. Today, Ethereum is where the money is. It's where the majority of stablecoins are. Majority of TVL. Majority of other institutions have issued their assets there. Majority of RWA's. So I think that it's Ethereum's game to lose. But look, you and I have known Ethereum for a long time. Ethereum is very capable of losing lead. So let's see what happens. Imagine a world where traditional finance meets the power of blockchain seamlessly. 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It's a digital nation, powered by the FXS token, and governed by its global community. Acquire FXS through Frax.com, or your go-to decks, stake it, and help shape Frax nations' future. Ready to join the forefront of DeFi? Visit Frax.com now to start earning with Frax USD and staked Frax USD. And for bankless listeners, you can use Frax.com slash r slash bankless, when bridging to Frax still for exclusive Frax still perks in boosted rewards. That's a touch on our last Ethereum subjects. This is another ETH Treasury company that got announced this week, ETH Zilla. The company, formerly known as one AD life sciences, I think technically it still is. It's a shell company that got, you know, purchased effectively through, this is a combination of electric capital, Avicials, VC firm, along with people from Ethereum lies. But then a bunch of other Ethereum community members, as well, Ethereum leaders, Robert Leshner, and Taroon are in this one, as well. $425 million is the starting place for ETH Zilla. Now, when I, you see, when I suck my nose or the winds, on Crypto Twitter to catch a sense, this was the first time an ETH Treasury company got launched, and there was a little bit of fatigue that I felt that I noticed on this course, people were like, okay, like, I'm tired of this, these announcements, like what, show me something new. I don't know if you also got that sense of fatigue in the air, but what was your reaction to this announcement? Um, so I think the team behind this is very credible. So obviously, you know, you saw a bunch of like Ethereum entrepreneurs who are on the board and who are going to be assisting with your generations. That's right. That's right. So a lot of the who's who of Ethereum are on this? If you compare that to, you know, SBAT is basically just consensus and Joe Lubey behind it, and then, you know, the other one is kind of more of a, you know, Peter Teal, and then Tom Lee, it's kind of a finance, put together cohort. So I thought this was interesting to see a very different kind of team behind this. Um, I thought that was, that was compelling. Um, and the way in which they're positioning this, right? So, so the storytelling around each of these vehicles is always a little bit different. And the storytelling here is that, okay, it's not just about staking. They're telling you, okay, we want to beat the staking rate. The staking rate is like the bogey that we're trying to get above. And the answer, okay, how are you going to do that? You're going to go on change, you're going to deal farming, you're going to do re-staking, you're going to do all this other stuff. And it's like, okay, now it's not only that there's going to be more staking demand, right? So a lot of these vehicles is like, okay, everything is going to be staked. Um, now there's going to be DeFi demand. And DeFi yields are going to get competed down from all the capital that goes into this vehicle. That's really interesting. Um, it now means that like, you are going to be competed with on chain through public markets vehicles for your yield. It's going to drive yields down across the board on chain. Um, I don't know what the knock on effects of that are going to be. In a way, it's going to be one of the most interesting things is like, this is basically going to be a gigasized like yearn type thing. Yeah. Just competing down yields and making them more competitive. So that was interesting. Now, is it fundamentally new? No, it's another treasure company. Um, and, but is it bullish Ethereum that there's more of these? Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. They're not the only ones leveraging DeFi yields and whatever R&D chain arbitrage they can acquire to increase, increase your yield. I don't know, Andrew Keys is at the Ether machine is explicitly trying to do that. Well, my understanding is they're just going to be just a wealth effective of, maybe not wealth effect, but there's going to be an influx of capital into DeFi and DeFi TVLs are going to go up. And, you know, maybe that pushes people out onto the risk curve because, you know, I have my Ether in ABE and maybe if I just get a little bit less of rates, strong rates, I'll start to be a little bit more aggressive with my yield surgery. So maybe that pushes people like me out in order in search of more aggressive returns. But I don't, well, I'm remains to be seen. I've really seen that DeFi TVL numbers expand. It's coming in theory. And I think it's kind of, I think maybe VCs will like re-prioritize layer 1, Ethereum layer 1, DeFi deals as a knock-on effect of this. I think it's cool. I think it's bullish for, you know, what I think is kind of the core story of crypto, which is DeFi. But I think a lot of these details kind of remain to be seen. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Let's get into this. I might need some help on this one. SEC permits in-kind creation and redemptions for crypto ETPs. This is a technical thing. I think all of this means, like if you have Bitcoin or Ether, you can contribute it directly to an ETF and retain your tax status like the tax level. I don't know if you can explain this better than I can. But this is something that people are saying. We're very bullish on. Yeah. I don't know that this is that big of a deal. It's kind of an easy win. It's very obvious that this should have been possible from the beginning. But previously when the ETFs were initially approved, they did not allow in-kind creation redemption. You had to create in cash and redeem in cash. So the authorized participants, which is like, you know, Jane Street and these hedge funds that are allowed to be participants in these markets, if you created or redeemed out of the ETF, you had to do it in cash and pay the slippage on Coinbase or whatever you're buying or selling your Bitcoin. So basically what this means is that simply there's going to be tighter spreads and less just like kind of slippage that people are paying when they're buying or selling these ETFs. That's kind of it. The reason why this was such a big fight is that it was so obvious that this should have been how it was structured from the beginning and it just wasn't. The SEC was just like, no, no, no, no. Who knows what would happen if you were allowed to contribute in kind to a crypto ETF, like maybe that Panamonium would set loose. And so this is just one of the obvious things the industry was like, why the fuck did you set it up this way? Clearly every other ETF, like a bond ETF, you're not just subscribed to a bond ETF in dollars. You can subscribe to it in bonds. You just put the bonds in a basket. That's the ETF, right? So if you have a Bitcoin ETF, it's just Bitcoin in a basket. Why can't I put another Bitcoin in the basket and say, great, now I've created a new instance of the ETF. SEC said no. Now they're saying yes. There's no large unlock of access to additional capital that no, it's okay. It's a procedural thing. It's a procedural thing and a market efficiency thing. It's good. Thank you for doing this. SEC, the previous SEC was crazy. That's what this is. All right. Let's get into some Zora pump conversations. Are you paying attention to the token launchpad wars? Not as much. I mean, I see the, the, you know, barbs going back and forth. But, you know, I'm more of an ETP guy than I am a Zora. More of an ETP guy. All right, so let me, let me fill you in, because this is a, I've been kind of playing around and it's not good wood. This is from Dan Smith. Which has some pretty good stats on Zora specifically. So just treat that. This happened earlier this last week. New Zora Altime High is for new posts, coin trading volume active, counter trading fees, aggregate coin, FDV, and the number of coins above $10,000 market cap, $100,000 market cap, and $1,000,000 market cap. Overall, there's been just like a focus on the launchpad wars generally speaking, I would say, especially since the launch of the pump token and people are kind of, you know, positioning Zora as the pump equivalent of a base chain. You take, you take coin bases, like culture and consumer crypto brand, and you, and then you take pump fund, then you get Zora. Right? It's kind of like what you get. Zora issues out a bunch of tokens. You can't speculate on them. And then of course, on this, so on a side of things, you have actual pump fund, along with Bunk. Now Bunk has actually surpassed pump fund in terms of on-chain revenues, token deployments as well. So Bunk has meaningfully entered the fray. And then also, like we were talking about last week, with me and Ryan, the pump token has dropped down to almost 50% below its ICO price. So it's coming in just a little bit above $2 billion. So meanwhile, while pump is going down, its local competitor on Solana is doing Bunk, is doing great. And also Zora is doing great. Zora itself has actually passed pump fund in revenue, which is, it would be unheard of if you told any of that. Really? I'm not realizing that. I'm, I think I'm not bullshitting. Let me, let me go open to the blockworks of research and actually, see, maybe I'll have to check myself after that. But that was, at least a tweet that I saw this week. Okay. Oh, here we go. Zora, 356,000, flipped pump in daily revenue yesterday, over a one-day period at the very least. Still trailing the category leader by $1 million, which is, Bunk. I want to go over to a take from Kyle Somani. He put out what I thought was a pretty good take. He's basically saying, Web 2 apps, like Instagram, Snapchat, Twitter, are these kind of like carefree, dopamine, brainrock apps that don't really require you having a lot of attention. And then Web 3 apps, like pump funds or a Bunk, are these adversarial, dark forests of thin liquidity speculation and mixing these things don't work. Like when I open up Instagram, I don't want to be thinking about like an adversarial environment, where if I buy this token, am I going to get dumped on? And so, mixing entertainment and tokens in this fashion is just not where a product market fit is. And he says, both Zora, nor pump fund, nor I'm assuming Bunk, as well, have really fixed this problem. I'm zooming out. I just get through a bunch of stats at you, some of the drama and then Somani's take. What's your reaction? I don't know that I have much of a reaction. I remember seeing the thread between, I think it was Jesse and Anna Tolly, where they were arguing about the one that caused so much to have a bunch of drama. Yes, yes. Our content coins are very different from meme coins. Yeah. And I think in a way, like the, the hermeneutics of meme coins are very interesting to me. Hermeneut, I'm going to need you to refine that word. Basically, like the philosophy, let's just say, the philosophy of meme coins. Like the way in which when it's the other guys, like the other, when it's the other chain stuff. Oh, sure. They're shitty meme coins and they're valueless and they're extracting from retail. And when they're yours, they're in innovation, in value creation. It's a new form of financial entertainment. It's, you know, it's, it's, it's empowering creators. I just find it that, look, I think Kyle is being a little bit too self-confident and his claim that these things are not fundamentally going to, like these things are broken in some deep way. It's very clear, both of these are operating as casinos. They're these kind of fun speculative game. Everybody at this point understands that. There was once upon a time, I remember what was it, 2023, when we were like peak financial nihilism. Maybe, maybe 24 was more when the financial nihilism meme was getting really strong. And people were talking about, like, why are people trading these meme coins? It's just like the same thing as meme stocks. And it's like, it's all connected to this financial malaise and like the reality that nobody can get ahead in life and millennials are making less money. There was all this, like narrative, you know, you're putting on the, like, why are people trading meme coins? Okay. Today, nobody talks about that anymore. Right. We don't talk about, like, oh, you know, millennials aren't making enough money, and people get more of their homes. They're not getting married. That's not why people are trading meme coins. They're trading meme coins because they're just just gambling. It's fine. It's fine that you're gambling. There's no big meta narrative. You're gambling here. You're gambling over there. You're gambling on Zora. And I think that's kind of the right answer. And I think you sort of, that either one is connected to some secular trend, which means that, okay, well, the secular trend is not gone. People are still, you know, there was wealth inequality or people can't afford houses. That's still true. And, you know, pumped out fund volumes have materially declined from where they were at the top. I think a much better answer is that there are different speculative vehicles now that you can just go buy, you know, you can go get levered on Robinhood and go buy some, you know, strategy or some, you know, S bet. And you don't need to go buy a pumped out fund token if you want volatility. And volatility is returned to crypto again. So once crypto itself is volatile, I think these assets just become less attractive on a relative basis. I think that's a big part of the answer. But I don't know. You tell me. The conversation that you were talking about between Jesse and Anatoli got spawned from this one individual who tweeted out something to the effect of, you know, both pumped fund and bonk and Zora, they are all tokens being issued on a bonding curve with the picture attached. And mechanistically, behind once you pull back the curtain, you see the same thing. You see a token on illiquid bonding curve that the price goes up when more people buy. Because that's how bonding curves work. And so it doesn't matter if you're front end, Zora or it's bonk or it's pumped. So long as it's a illiquid token on a bonding curve behind the scenes, we're all, we're ultimately doing the same thing and we're just trying to, like, you know, brand this is a creator coin. And I accept that point. I think that's a valid point. If it's, if it's all the same token logic and that's why I contracted the end of the day, then like, really, just kind of like, reproducing in, in the front end. However, the front end really matters. If you go to pump fund, you see a four-channie website that looks like a slot machine. It like vibrates like a slot machine. It's got different colors like a slot machine. It looks and feels like a slot machine. If you go to Zora, you get something like Instagram. And I do think the front end also matters because you're attracting a specific person. You're encouraging a specific behavior. And so yes, even though it's an illiquid AMM in the back, the actual app that you use does dictate who is going to use it and the nature of their behavior of how they use it as well. And so I'm kind of of, of two minds. I remember we did, we did a podcast together on stage where I think, I think it was Tom, who said that Zora is basically pumped out fund for millennials. Where it's like, okay, if you're Gen Z and you're like on four-channel day, yeah, exactly. It's like, if you're, if you're Gen Z, you're on four-channel day, you're just kind of messed up in the head, then yeah, okay, so that's one thing. But if you're like, oh, I kind of like Instagram and I like my, you know, lattes or whatever and I like nice, clean design and it sort of silken value approach. But fundamentally, to your point, it's pictures on a bohnikerv. And pictures on a bohnikerv it's like, okay, you know, that was the same thing for Anteque Wars, was it considered pictures on a bohnikerv it was pictures of the PFP on a bohnikerv and at the end of the day, it's the same game with a difference again. And that's what, you know, when you go into a casino, and you look at the what you will see is that they're all basically the same game with a different skin every slot machine like there's an indiana jones one and there's a terminator one and there's a ninja turtles one and it doesn't really matter which one you play they're all the same damn thing. I think the big question though is pump raised like 800 million million dollars to go make a twitch competitor and Zora and Jesse from base are really trying to take Zora mainstream and have the base app which hooked into Zora to be a instagram competitor and so well yes we can be kind of like I don't know if nihilist is right word we can be reductionist and say oh it's just a picture on a bonding curve so therefore it's the same thing we don't really need too large too well well they're both both people are trying to make these things mainstream and make them and break out of crypto degen trenches and make them be a part of like regular mainstream culture and so I think it does kind of matter how the path dependency does matter like is this a pump fund live stream platform that is taking like you know streamers trying to pump their their coin mainstream or is it more of a instagram look alike for creators who just want to get paid for creating and they don't paid on instagram to create I think like whether or not mainstream society is interested in adopting this behavior at all is the ultimate question that we do not know is answered. Though I'm open to that possibility it remains to be proven that the form factor is the dominant thing that's going to create a totally different unlock or behavior pattern so far as far as I can see and I'm not a user of Zora or pumped out fun as far as I can see the games look pretty similar to me the way in which people are playing them the way in which people are talking about them like not the way in which the creators are talking about them but if you listen to a lot versus listening to Jesse or listen to Jacob the way they talk about the products is very different right but what's the way their users talk about their products. They seem pretty similar to me but you tell me. No no I think that's right as I was going to close out the section I would say Hissy if you were to ever get on to Zora I would probably buy your your coin under a particular price. That's a good reason for me not to yeah it's a good reason not to get on Zora. All right well we'll wrap things up with a more serious subject as we're kind of alluded to in the beginning turning back to it to Roman Storm. This got it was breaking right as Hissy and I started recording no verdict today in the United States versus Stormcase the jury is being sent home and deliberations will continue not Friday but Monday. I mean we are not going to hear the outcome of the Roman Stormcase until perhaps not even Monday deliberations will continue on Monday and then if they conclude deliberating on Monday then we can hear a verdict on Monday but in theory you could go into the next day as well. From Jake Chervinsky he said you know optimistically trying to be optimistic about the situation is that long deliberations are believed to benefit the defense because there needs to be a unanimous agreement with the prosecution in order for the prosecution's charges to actually be successful to the in order for prosecution to win they need all 12 members of the jury to unanimously agree with the prosecution so if there's any if anyone doubts we can get ourselves into a hung jury which would result in the whole storm the whole case starting over again if the United States attorney wanted to even do that in the first place so I think there's like reasons to be optimistic about the outcome here although we just don't know and it's going to take us until Monday at the earliest to actually find out Hissy what's your reaction. Yeah so people may know that I'm very close to this case for a few reasons so we were actually the seed investors into tornado cash and Dragonfly ended up ourselves getting pulled into the whole situation because you know we were subpoenaed in the process of the DOJ investigating this case and then on Friday last Friday the DOJ in open court claimed that they were planning to charge Dragonfly for being investors into tornado cash now this ended up kicking off a whole fire storm and by Monday they backtracked in open court stated that oh no hold on that's not what we meant you know we're not we're not planning to charge anybody a Dragonfly they're not targets in our investigation in open court you mean in Roman's case they said you know so in open court means that the the basically it was open to the public at the time that they made the statement I mean that the media was in the room there's a high profile case so the media cover you know most cases nobody's nobody's nobody cares no one's watching um uh you are never ever allowed according to DOJ rules to mention any investigations into a third party in open court it is absolutely not allowed you are supposed to clear the court and have a private colloquy with the judge if you want to talk about anything that is relevant to anybody besides the parties in the case um so the DOJ news new they messed up you can see it because they sealed the transcript um and they basically mean that the the public normally is around to read transcripts from what happened that day in court they sealed the transcript for that day meaning that nobody from the public is allowed to read it because of the fact that they read this into open court which they weren't supposed to so anyway this was kind of a crazy week for me personally right um of course you know I know Roman very well known for years and like last yesterday uh we're the closing arguments in the case and I read the entire transcript um it's like 233 pages I read all the closing arguments uh unfortunately I couldn't be there because I'm not in New York I'm I'm in the west coast right now um it is really difficult to read I think right now the jury today they um asked a few questions so the jury the jury goes away and deliberates uh and they can deliberate for as long as they want um and they're allowed to ask the judge questions which they you know they write into note and then they hand the note to the judge and the judge can answer a question to clarify something that the jury wants to understand about the law um the jury today asked the judge a question about whether or not Roman storm had arguments presented before the indictment for the prosecution to bring charges based on venue so venue means um when you bring charges against a defendant you have to bring it in the right venue you have to bring it in the right place you can't charge them anywhere you want um so if somebody did some activity in state x but you charge them in state y uh you're you're a case you can get thrown out for venue it's gonna say you're the wrong venue go try it over there if you want to try it um so one of the weakest parts of this case has been venue so if you remember actually the mango markets case uh the mango markets case got thrown out host the verdict because of venue problems because basically they tried and something district of New York but the mango markets guy Avi he was in Puerto Rico and there was no activity in New York they're they're claim of like why is this case being tried in New York the answer was like well there's some users who use mango markets were in New York it's like no that's not enough to establish venue that's not where the crime took place crime took place in Puerto Rico no the screw off get out of here um so Roman storm he was in Seattle for the entire period of him working on tornado cash and the arguments that they brought of why this case was being tried in New York was we found some victims who used tornado cash who were in New York those are the venue arguments is that there are some people used to need a cash who were in New York North Korea was obviously not in New York any sanctions violations obviously did not had nothing to do in New York um and the other claim they had was that Tom who's at Dragonfly who's one of the people who was uh part of the investment trainer cash he was in New York for a couple weeks while Roman talked to him about some random messages nothing to do with tornado cash nothing to do with sanctions nothing to do with money laundering nothing you know nothing to do with any of the actual substance of the charges so these were their arguments for venue the fact of the jury is asking the court did they prove something else about venue that we don't know about and the judge replied you're not allowed to consider that go back and keep delivering um to me and i think uh Jake also pointed this out that may be a very good sign that the jury is seriously considering whether or not to throw out these charges just on the basis of venue i mean so we're all trying to read the minds of 12 people in a deliberation room so we don't really know i think they're what i'm reading is there's reasons to be optimistic but we are making assumptions as we do become optimistic based on those things to be honest i think Roman's best chance so one thing we know from the trial is that the jury is very non-technical before the jury was seated you do jury selection so that the prosecution and the defense can both like cross out jurors um everybody who knew stuff about crypto was a limited jury selection by the prosecution so nobody who's on this jury knows anything about crypto so they're all learning all these concepts for the first time um the closing arguments from the prosecution were very strong if you don't know anything about crypto and you don't understand what a DAO is you don't understand what decentralization is you don't know any of these concepts right the the argument from the prosecutors was look don't you you got use your common sense these guys made money money was laundered it's a money laundering business the end you know look at these guys look at look at you know just look at them you know you know in your heart of hearts that these guys are money launders that argument i think it's very likely that a jury is going to be swayed by that now when this case goes on appeal everybody i know who's a lawyer has said that romans odds to win this case on appeal are very high there are a lot of decisions that the judge made that are very likely to be over very likely to be looked at with suspicion by a an appellate court but the district court ultimately comes down to these 12 jurors and if they don't give get a finding on venue my my fear is that they're very likely to convict on at least one of these charges so wait wait the reason why we're throwing around throwing out all of the technical jurors is because if you have any sort of context about crypto it's easier for the defense to explain some of these concepts uh but if you don't imagine it's teaching 12 people about the nuances of crypto and how this all works that's just like not favorable to the defense whatsoever i mean to be clear the defense also structures and probably the jurors they struck were anybody who says you know i don't trust russians or i don't like uh crypto i think crypto is used for crime like they struck all those people right so everybody had their chance to strike a jurors but what you're left with is ultimately a non-technical jury pool and that that that's how our jury system works unfortunately i don't know how much you can actually speak about this to see but the idea that the department of justice might have uh a lawsuit lawsuit against dragonfly because you guys are criminal charges a criminal charges against members of dragonfly for being an investor in uh in in tornado cash in the in the company behind tornado cash talk about the implications of that about like why is that significant obviously beyond just face value uh and what what the long-term impacts of that are so first thing to be clear they did not file any charges and they and they made very clear that they're not intending to file any charges against us or any investors into tornado cash um there's also no precedent for it in American history never happened so whether it's you know enron or theranos or any of these cases where the other line company's been indicted for some criminal activity the investors unless the investors are actually co-conspirators in some way you know it's like it's like a mob front or something that just never happens absolutely never happens so there's no case law there's no precedent for doing this ever now that being said um even the threat of saying that you might get prosecuted if you invest into something that we later decide is engage in criminal activity would have such a massive chilling effect on the willingness of investors to invest into anything that is not clearly within the boundary of a regulated business right i mean we just heard from this Paul Atkins case is that the the goal of the Trump administration is to open up the avenues for innovation to allow builders to continue to build and to innovate unperturbed by uh whether regulators or by law enforcement right just make the rules clear of what you can it cannot do 2019 Fincent gave this guidance that said very clearly if you are not costating assets that you are not a money transmitting a transmission business and therefore you do not have BSA obligations you don't have to KML you don't have to KYC you don't have to do any of these things right self-custody was the boundary that they defined that was the rule that everybody in this industry followed whether it's Minero or Zcash or Aztec or tornado cash everybody followed those to those same rules for them to then go back on that and to say no no guess what if North Korea used your business all bets are off if your protocol was used by the wrong dude doesn't matter what you doesn't matter what rules you follow doesn't matter what you thought at the time doesn't matter if you thought what you were doing was legal that precedent is a horrible outrageous and chilling precedent um and that's why i think the DOJ backed off of it so couldn't we is they realize that like hey they're bigger consequences than just what happens in this case if we allowed this to potentially stand my read on this case as a whole is the DOJ is just trying to use tornado cash specifically robin corn to robin storm specifically as like a in order to do a make a chilling effect upon anyone who wants to build a privacy out they're really just using him as an example and going after him hard because of how tornado cash really just goes against their goals of of the DOJ uh and i think i i mean i think anyone in crypto kind of understands that or at least thinks that that to be the case but i'm guessing the jury doesn't understand that or see that angle whatsoever there's no assumption that we should make that the jury sees the DOJ really in what would a crypto person's perspective be reaching in order to make this case against robin storm i'm guessing the jury doesn't really see that angle of course not i mean the one of the most notable parts of this case was the um you know rolling was indicted in 2022 um at the same time uh soon before that tornado cash itself was sanctioned by OFAC right last year 2024 during roman storms uh after roman storm was already indicted 2024 those sanctions against tornado cash got overturned in the second circuit um those got canceled it is now legal for americans to use tornado cash as much as you want um despite that the prosecution went through all they did was drop one of the charges which was unlicensed money transmitter um now so the reason why they dropped that was actually not because of the OFAC sanctions the reason why they dropped that was this uh blanche memo which i don't know if you if you cover this at all bankless but uh taught blanche wrote a memo um he was i think uh deputy attorney general um he wrote this memo but basically saying that there there's there's there's new rule in town for the DOJ the new rule is that we are no longer pursuing prosecutions for uh registration offenses so if you did not register or you have you know you failed to get a license we're no longer prosecuting that it's not a good use of our time we are going to prosecute criminal actors hackers or people who are either attacking others or attacking crypto people if you are actually going at or you know cartels or or um you know uh drug offenses or things like this right like these these kinds of people using crypto we will absolutely continue going after but registration offenses were done going after that criminally right this was the blanche memo everybody thought after the blanche memo well they're probably gonna drop these cases because this is you know what what is the case here other than to say that well they should have registered they should have done AML they should have done KYC that's effectively a registration offense but what they did instead is they simply dropped one of the three charges which was the unlicensed money transmitter charge but the conspiracy to um i believe uh there's conspiracy with a lot of money um conspiracy to evade sanctions and then there's uh the last charges like conspiracy to um transmit money illegally or something like this those charges are still there so i think this is one of the last um cases that is again like a holdover of the Biden administration era attack against crypto and um it's really painful to see this kind of playing out in front of us at the same time that the rest of the industry is moving on yeah yeah yeah yeah it's gonna it's a it's a long weekend ahead of us the like i said the jury doesn't come back on Friday so they go all the way until monday i just can't imagine the just appreciating amount of pressure that roman storm just feels that doing i don't know what saying is hotel room waiting for monday to roll around so you can hear the verdict and that's kind of how i feel uh as well yeah likewise well has he uh to end on that note i guess uh thanks for joining me on on the weekly rollup and i think uh you know i'm keeping roman in my thoughts over the weekend and i know you are as well and we ask the listener and do that and do the two yep absolutely thanks again for coming on hisee whenever ryan needs to take a break i really appreciate it you're uh a gigabrain that i appreciate we bring it on the show and talking about the year the week's in the week and crypto for me my pleasure man thanks for having me i'm sure you're gonna go talk about some of these subjects on your own podcasts as well where can people go to go find those takes people can find me uh just google my name uh i'm hasib h a s e b and you can find my twitter we post a podcast roughly once a week on the on-chain feed so i'm going to find us on the shopping block the shopping block is pretty good it's one of my favorites to see thank you so much banquet station you guys know the deal crypto is risky can lose what you put in but nonetheless we are headed west this is frontier it's not for everyone but we are glad you're with us on the banquet yesterday thanks a lot","word_count":14631,"segments":[{"start":0,"end":16.8,"text":" It's been a long week, but happy to spend it with you.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.3779131355932203,"compression_ratio":1.4701986754966887,"no_speech_prob":0.1239013671875,"words":[]},{"start":16.8,"end":21.82,"text":" It has been a long week, it was starting decently quiet, but I think today specifically","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.3779131355932203,"compression_ratio":1.4701986754966887,"no_speech_prob":0.1239013671875,"words":[]},{"start":21.82,"end":27.240000000000002,"text":" it got pretty loud with this SEC speech, the SEC is introducing Project Crypto.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.3779131355932203,"compression_ratio":1.4701986754966887,"no_speech_prob":0.1239013671875,"words":[]},{"start":27.240000000000002,"end":31.76,"text":" I thought it was absolutely incredible, definitely a capstone for everything that's been going","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.21254139072847683,"compression_ratio":1.7325581395348837,"no_speech_prob":0.173095703125,"words":[]},{"start":31.76,"end":32.760000000000005,"text":" on in this administration.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.21254139072847683,"compression_ratio":1.7325581395348837,"no_speech_prob":0.173095703125,"words":[]},{"start":32.760000000000005,"end":33.760000000000005,"text":" Yeah.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.21254139072847683,"compression_ratio":1.7325581395348837,"no_speech_prob":0.173095703125,"words":[]},{"start":33.760000000000005,"end":36.96,"text":" Before we get into the Project Crypto, we're going to talk about Ethereum's birthday.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.21254139072847683,"compression_ratio":1.7325581395348837,"no_speech_prob":0.173095703125,"words":[]},{"start":36.96,"end":40.72,"text":" We'll talk about some of the ETH Treasury companies that are coming online, the Roman","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.21254139072847683,"compression_ratio":1.7325581395348837,"no_speech_prob":0.173095703125,"words":[]},{"start":40.72,"end":41.96,"text":" Storm case, as well.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.21254139072847683,"compression_ratio":1.7325581395348837,"no_speech_prob":0.173095703125,"words":[]},{"start":41.96,"end":44.96,"text":" We are all waiting with baiting breath, but we just learned that the verdict is not going","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.21254139072847683,"compression_ratio":1.7325581395348837,"no_speech_prob":0.173095703125,"words":[]},{"start":44.96,"end":48.6,"text":" to be heard until at least Monday at the earliest.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.21254139072847683,"compression_ratio":1.7325581395348837,"no_speech_prob":0.173095703125,"words":[]},{"start":48.6,"end":52.24,"text":" There's pump versus Zora things to talk about, but let's go ahead and start with Ethereum's","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.21254139072847683,"compression_ratio":1.7325581395348837,"no_speech_prob":0.173095703125,"words":[]},{"start":52.24,"end":53.24,"text":" birthday.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.21254139072847683,"compression_ratio":1.7325581395348837,"no_speech_prob":0.173095703125,"words":[]},{"start":53.24,"end":55.24,"text":" Happy 10th birthday to Ethereum.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.21254139072847683,"compression_ratio":1.7325581395348837,"no_speech_prob":0.173095703125,"words":[]},{"start":55.24,"end":60.660000000000004,"text":" There was just a flurry of activity going around Ethereum Twitter, just all these different","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2502948113207547,"compression_ratio":1.857677902621723,"no_speech_prob":0.02227783203125,"words":[]},{"start":60.660000000000004,"end":65.8,"text":" people talking about their lore with Ethereum, because now that Ethereum is 10 years old,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2502948113207547,"compression_ratio":1.857677902621723,"no_speech_prob":0.02227783203125,"words":[]},{"start":65.8,"end":69.56,"text":" all these different Ethereum community members have different walks of life, different stories","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2502948113207547,"compression_ratio":1.857677902621723,"no_speech_prob":0.02227783203125,"words":[]},{"start":69.56,"end":70.56,"text":" to tell.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2502948113207547,"compression_ratio":1.857677902621723,"no_speech_prob":0.02227783203125,"words":[]},{"start":70.56,"end":73.56,"text":" I said, how Ethereum has impacted their life.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2502948113207547,"compression_ratio":1.857677902621723,"no_speech_prob":0.02227783203125,"words":[]},{"start":73.56,"end":78.02000000000001,"text":" Something I thought was pretty cool was this Believing Something campaign, which was a","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2502948113207547,"compression_ratio":1.857677902621723,"no_speech_prob":0.02227783203125,"words":[]},{"start":78.02000000000001,"end":81.52000000000001,"text":" marketing campaign, which I thought was organized by the Ethereum Foundation.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2502948113207547,"compression_ratio":1.857677902621723,"no_speech_prob":0.02227783203125,"words":[]},{"start":81.52,"end":82.52,"text":" I was sick.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.21926652892561985,"compression_ratio":1.588628762541806,"no_speech_prob":0.2215576171875,"words":[]},{"start":82.52,"end":86.52,"text":" This is the first ever Ethereum foundation marketing push.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.21926652892561985,"compression_ratio":1.588628762541806,"no_speech_prob":0.2215576171875,"words":[]},{"start":86.52,"end":91.67999999999999,"text":" Turns out it was actually just an engaged community member who just thought of, hey, let's","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.21926652892561985,"compression_ratio":1.588628762541806,"no_speech_prob":0.2215576171875,"words":[]},{"start":91.67999999999999,"end":97.16,"text":" get a few companies to do this Believing Something, but the ETH in something is replaced","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.21926652892561985,"compression_ratio":1.588628762541806,"no_speech_prob":0.2215576171875,"words":[]},{"start":97.16,"end":98.67999999999999,"text":" by the ETH logo.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.21926652892561985,"compression_ratio":1.588628762541806,"no_speech_prob":0.2215576171875,"words":[]},{"start":98.67999999999999,"end":104.16,"text":" Everyone can brand it as their respective company, and on the 10th birthday, we'll just","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.21926652892561985,"compression_ratio":1.588628762541806,"no_speech_prob":0.2215576171875,"words":[]},{"start":104.16,"end":105.44,"text":" get people to tweet this out.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.21926652892561985,"compression_ratio":1.588628762541806,"no_speech_prob":0.2215576171875,"words":[]},{"start":105.44,"end":111.28,"text":" I think maybe 10 organizations were in there with it to in order to kickstart this thing,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.21926652892561985,"compression_ratio":1.588628762541806,"no_speech_prob":0.2215576171875,"words":[]},{"start":111.84,"end":117,"text":" the brand itself, the graphic itself, was simple enough that the designers of respective","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2899590163934426,"compression_ratio":1.6979865771812082,"no_speech_prob":0.0271453857421875,"words":[]},{"start":117,"end":120.8,"text":" companies could all get together, and it turned out to be, I think Ethereum is the best","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2899590163934426,"compression_ratio":1.6979865771812082,"no_speech_prob":0.0271453857421875,"words":[]},{"start":120.8,"end":122.32000000000001,"text":" marketing push ever.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2899590163934426,"compression_ratio":1.6979865771812082,"no_speech_prob":0.0271453857421875,"words":[]},{"start":122.32000000000001,"end":126.48,"text":" Anyways, happy new 10th birthday to Ethereum, Hissy, what were your thoughts on anything","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2899590163934426,"compression_ratio":1.6979865771812082,"no_speech_prob":0.0271453857421875,"words":[]},{"start":126.48,"end":128.6,"text":" you did that was special, what do you think?","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2899590163934426,"compression_ratio":1.6979865771812082,"no_speech_prob":0.0271453857421875,"words":[]},{"start":128.6,"end":132.76,"text":" It was really hard-warming to see all the stories about Ethereum early days and looking","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2899590163934426,"compression_ratio":1.6979865771812082,"no_speech_prob":0.0271453857421875,"words":[]},{"start":132.76,"end":137.2,"text":" at some of the core devs who were reflecting on the journey that Ethereum has been on.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2899590163934426,"compression_ratio":1.6979865771812082,"no_speech_prob":0.0271453857421875,"words":[]},{"start":137.20000000000002,"end":141.44000000000003,"text":" I got to be honest though, one, I hate these anniversary-type things.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.29296875,"compression_ratio":1.7457627118644068,"no_speech_prob":0.0938720703125,"words":[]},{"start":141.44000000000003,"end":143.28000000000003,"text":" I think it's just kind of the way that I'm built.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.29296875,"compression_ratio":1.7457627118644068,"no_speech_prob":0.0938720703125,"words":[]},{"start":143.28000000000003,"end":145.28000000000003,"text":" Anniversary of the big white paper anniversary.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.29296875,"compression_ratio":1.7457627118644068,"no_speech_prob":0.0938720703125,"words":[]},{"start":145.28000000000003,"end":146.28000000000003,"text":" Yeah.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.29296875,"compression_ratio":1.7457627118644068,"no_speech_prob":0.0938720703125,"words":[]},{"start":146.28000000000003,"end":147.28000000000003,"text":" These kinds of things.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.29296875,"compression_ratio":1.7457627118644068,"no_speech_prob":0.0938720703125,"words":[]},{"start":147.28000000000003,"end":149.52,"text":" You always get journalists hitting you up, you're like, what's your, do you have comments","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.29296875,"compression_ratio":1.7457627118644068,"no_speech_prob":0.0938720703125,"words":[]},{"start":149.52,"end":153.32000000000002,"text":" on the fact that X has just turned X many years old?","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.29296875,"compression_ratio":1.7457627118644068,"no_speech_prob":0.0938720703125,"words":[]},{"start":153.32000000000002,"end":155.12,"text":" And I'm, no, I don't have any comments.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.29296875,"compression_ratio":1.7457627118644068,"no_speech_prob":0.0938720703125,"words":[]},{"start":155.12,"end":156.12,"text":" I didn't have any last year.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.29296875,"compression_ratio":1.7457627118644068,"no_speech_prob":0.0938720703125,"words":[]},{"start":156.12,"end":158.08,"text":" I don't have any this year.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.29296875,"compression_ratio":1.7457627118644068,"no_speech_prob":0.0938720703125,"words":[]},{"start":158.08,"end":164.28000000000003,"text":" So I got an LLM to write something that somebody asked me to give a statement.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.29296875,"compression_ratio":1.7457627118644068,"no_speech_prob":0.0938720703125,"words":[]},{"start":164.76,"end":169.08,"text":" To be honest, I think the fact that, I don't mean to be a buzzkill, but the fact that the","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1985828488372093,"compression_ratio":1.6415929203539823,"no_speech_prob":0.09124755859375,"words":[]},{"start":169.08,"end":174.76,"text":" Roman storm case was going to closing arguments yesterday made it hard for me to feel very","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1985828488372093,"compression_ratio":1.6415929203539823,"no_speech_prob":0.09124755859375,"words":[]},{"start":174.76,"end":175.76,"text":" celebratory.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1985828488372093,"compression_ratio":1.6415929203539823,"no_speech_prob":0.09124755859375,"words":[]},{"start":175.76,"end":182.52,"text":" There was actually a tweet that David Morris highlighted yesterday that he just learned","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1985828488372093,"compression_ratio":1.6415929203539823,"no_speech_prob":0.09124755859375,"words":[]},{"start":182.52,"end":190.08,"text":" that the beacon chain for Ethereum was actually deployed from the tornado cash contracts.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1985828488372093,"compression_ratio":1.6415929203539823,"no_speech_prob":0.09124755859375,"words":[]},{"start":190.08,"end":194.8,"text":" And so, tornado cash itself is kind of forever enshrined in the history of Ethereum.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2218974820143885,"compression_ratio":1.7797202797202798,"no_speech_prob":0.0166473388671875,"words":[]},{"start":194.8,"end":199.60000000000002,"text":" And so, there's a lot that rise on this, on this, this trial.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2218974820143885,"compression_ratio":1.7797202797202798,"no_speech_prob":0.0166473388671875,"words":[]},{"start":199.60000000000002,"end":203.08,"text":" And that was, I was, I was thinking like it's hard to celebrate when there's such a","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2218974820143885,"compression_ratio":1.7797202797202798,"no_speech_prob":0.0166473388671875,"words":[]},{"start":203.08,"end":207.88000000000002,"text":" big question kind of weighing over the industry because the cypher punk movement that led","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2218974820143885,"compression_ratio":1.7797202797202798,"no_speech_prob":0.0166473388671875,"words":[]},{"start":207.88000000000002,"end":211.76000000000002,"text":" to Ethereum, the encapsulation of that really is the case of Roman storm.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2218974820143885,"compression_ratio":1.7797202797202798,"no_speech_prob":0.0166473388671875,"words":[]},{"start":211.76000000000002,"end":213.56,"text":" Yeah, here's a, here's a said tweet.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2218974820143885,"compression_ratio":1.7797202797202798,"no_speech_prob":0.0166473388671875,"words":[]},{"start":213.56,"end":216.84,"text":" Y'all, I was just notified of something mind-boggling in the current context.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2218974820143885,"compression_ratio":1.7797202797202798,"no_speech_prob":0.0166473388671875,"words":[]},{"start":216.84,"end":222.52,"text":" The beacon chain contract for all state teeth was deployed by an address funded by tornado","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2623487903225806,"compression_ratio":1.625,"no_speech_prob":0.02716064453125,"words":[]},{"start":222.52,"end":223.52,"text":" cash.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2623487903225806,"compression_ratio":1.625,"no_speech_prob":0.02716064453125,"words":[]},{"start":223.52,"end":227.68,"text":" And like Roman was just like one, one of the many developers who, you know, would otherwise","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2623487903225806,"compression_ratio":1.625,"no_speech_prob":0.02716064453125,"words":[]},{"start":227.68,"end":233.8,"text":" be celebrating ETH's 10th birthday with a story of his own about how Ethereum changed his","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2623487903225806,"compression_ratio":1.625,"no_speech_prob":0.02716064453125,"words":[]},{"start":233.8,"end":236.64000000000001,"text":" life and how he decided to become an open source contract developer.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2623487903225806,"compression_ratio":1.625,"no_speech_prob":0.02716064453125,"words":[]},{"start":236.64000000000001,"end":241.28,"text":" I remember there was a recent tweet from Vitalik Udren who donated a bunch of money to","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2623487903225806,"compression_ratio":1.625,"no_speech_prob":0.02716064453125,"words":[]},{"start":241.28,"end":246.2,"text":" Roman storm's case and said something to the effect of, oh, I actually encouraged you","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2623487903225806,"compression_ratio":1.625,"no_speech_prob":0.02716064453125,"words":[]},{"start":246.28000000000003,"end":249.84,"text":" to go create this application, this privacy application.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1936001712328767,"compression_ratio":1.6925373134328359,"no_speech_prob":0.0164031982421875,"words":[]},{"start":249.84,"end":253.76000000000002,"text":" And so I would, it would be dishonorable if I did not support you in your time of need","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1936001712328767,"compression_ratio":1.6925373134328359,"no_speech_prob":0.0164031982421875,"words":[]},{"start":253.76000000000002,"end":257.68,"text":" and then came with like a, a, a wavy donation to Roman storm.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1936001712328767,"compression_ratio":1.6925373134328359,"no_speech_prob":0.0164031982421875,"words":[]},{"start":257.68,"end":260.36,"text":" So yeah, like there's a bunch of mixed feelings I would say going around.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1936001712328767,"compression_ratio":1.6925373134328359,"no_speech_prob":0.0164031982421875,"words":[]},{"start":260.36,"end":264.92,"text":" We're going to be bullish in a second talking about the SEC's project crypto where we're","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1936001712328767,"compression_ratio":1.6925373134328359,"no_speech_prob":0.0164031982421875,"words":[]},{"start":264.92,"end":267.96000000000004,"text":" reminiscent and nostalgic of talking about Ethereum's 10th birthday.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1936001712328767,"compression_ratio":1.6925373134328359,"no_speech_prob":0.0164031982421875,"words":[]},{"start":267.96000000000004,"end":271.92,"text":" But like, I would agree with you, there is this big cloud overhanging us.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1936001712328767,"compression_ratio":1.6925373134328359,"no_speech_prob":0.0164031982421875,"words":[]},{"start":271.92,"end":275.04,"text":" As Roman, Roman storm's jury goes home for the weekend.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1936001712328767,"compression_ratio":1.6925373134328359,"no_speech_prob":0.0164031982421875,"words":[]},{"start":275.04,"end":279,"text":" They're going to take Friday off, which means, which means Roman doesn't know the outcome","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.21311090225563908,"compression_ratio":1.7282608695652173,"no_speech_prob":0.0433349609375,"words":[]},{"start":279,"end":283.28000000000003,"text":" of his case for the next three days, 72 hours.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.21311090225563908,"compression_ratio":1.7282608695652173,"no_speech_prob":0.0433349609375,"words":[]},{"start":283.28000000000003,"end":287.52000000000004,"text":" So I can't imagine just the pressure that is, that is weighing on him right now.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.21311090225563908,"compression_ratio":1.7282608695652173,"no_speech_prob":0.0433349609375,"words":[]},{"start":287.52000000000004,"end":290.28000000000003,"text":" Yeah, there's a, there's a storm in New York.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.21311090225563908,"compression_ratio":1.7282608695652173,"no_speech_prob":0.0433349609375,"words":[]},{"start":290.28000000000003,"end":293.48,"text":" I hope everybody who's in New York is going to be staying safe.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.21311090225563908,"compression_ratio":1.7282608695652173,"no_speech_prob":0.0433349609375,"words":[]},{"start":293.48,"end":299,"text":" But it was in a way almost poetic that at the same time that, you know, Roman storm's trial","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.21311090225563908,"compression_ratio":1.7282608695652173,"no_speech_prob":0.0433349609375,"words":[]},{"start":299,"end":300,"text":" is undergoing.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.21311090225563908,"compression_ratio":1.7282608695652173,"no_speech_prob":0.0433349609375,"words":[]},{"start":300,"end":302.92,"text":" There's a storm that's better in New York.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.21311090225563908,"compression_ratio":1.7282608695652173,"no_speech_prob":0.0433349609375,"words":[]},{"start":302.92,"end":305.8,"text":" And different words, well, I guess it's part of the, part of the birthday.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.27262931034482757,"compression_ratio":1.739413680781759,"no_speech_prob":0.0301971435546875,"words":[]},{"start":305.8,"end":309.48,"text":" It was pretty cool to see Ethereum being celebrated at the NASDAQ.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.27262931034482757,"compression_ratio":1.739413680781759,"no_speech_prob":0.0301971435546875,"words":[]},{"start":309.48,"end":314,"text":" So Joseph Lubin and SBET and consensus and a bunch of other people I was there included.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.27262931034482757,"compression_ratio":1.739413680781759,"no_speech_prob":0.0301971435546875,"words":[]},{"start":314,"end":317.76,"text":" We're all, we were all down there at the NASDAQ ringing the closing bell.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.27262931034482757,"compression_ratio":1.739413680781759,"no_speech_prob":0.0301971435546875,"words":[]},{"start":317.76,"end":321.52000000000004,"text":" And so it was pretty cool to see 10 years of Ethereum being broadcasted in the center","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.27262931034482757,"compression_ratio":1.739413680781759,"no_speech_prob":0.0301971435546875,"words":[]},{"start":321.52000000000004,"end":323.40000000000003,"text":" of, of, of Times Square.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.27262931034482757,"compression_ratio":1.739413680781759,"no_speech_prob":0.0301971435546875,"words":[]},{"start":323.40000000000003,"end":329.72,"text":" And so if the sentiment was in crypto, how it was two years ago, three years ago, with","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.27262931034482757,"compression_ratio":1.739413680781759,"no_speech_prob":0.0301971435546875,"words":[]},{"start":329.72,"end":331.48,"text":" the Gary Gensel administration.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.27262931034482757,"compression_ratio":1.739413680781759,"no_speech_prob":0.0301971435546875,"words":[]},{"start":331.48,"end":336.36,"text":" I don't think the 10 years of Ethereum would have been that powerful for Trad5, but it","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.24101216814159293,"compression_ratio":1.5984848484848484,"no_speech_prob":0.0031719207763671875,"words":[]},{"start":336.36,"end":342.28000000000003,"text":" is now a story that Trad5 can kind of lean into right after the coin base has done particularly","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.24101216814159293,"compression_ratio":1.5984848484848484,"no_speech_prob":0.0031719207763671875,"words":[]},{"start":342.28000000000003,"end":343.28000000000003,"text":" well.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.24101216814159293,"compression_ratio":1.5984848484848484,"no_speech_prob":0.0031719207763671875,"words":[]},{"start":343.28000000000003,"end":346,"text":" Robin is issuing a layer two on Ethereum.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.24101216814159293,"compression_ratio":1.5984848484848484,"no_speech_prob":0.0031719207763671875,"words":[]},{"start":346,"end":350.96000000000004,"text":" The circle IPO has on gangbessers and, you know, Wall Street is just into Ethereum right","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.24101216814159293,"compression_ratio":1.5984848484848484,"no_speech_prob":0.0031719207763671875,"words":[]},{"start":350.96000000000004,"end":352.68,"text":" now into crypto.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.24101216814159293,"compression_ratio":1.5984848484848484,"no_speech_prob":0.0031719207763671875,"words":[]},{"start":352.68,"end":358.8,"text":" The 10 year anniversary of Ethereum just has a better halo around it and Trad5 terms.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.24101216814159293,"compression_ratio":1.5984848484848484,"no_speech_prob":0.0031719207763671875,"words":[]},{"start":358.8,"end":362,"text":" And I'm grateful for that at the very least.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2055084745762712,"compression_ratio":1.625,"no_speech_prob":0.1036376953125,"words":[]},{"start":362,"end":364.48,"text":" Getting into double digits, I think, is special.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2055084745762712,"compression_ratio":1.625,"no_speech_prob":0.1036376953125,"words":[]},{"start":364.48,"end":369.8,"text":" One thing that I often tell people when I'm telling them why crypto is now kind of inevitable","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2055084745762712,"compression_ratio":1.625,"no_speech_prob":0.1036376953125,"words":[]},{"start":369.8,"end":374.28000000000003,"text":" for the next generation of people thinking about their, their capital allocations is that","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2055084745762712,"compression_ratio":1.625,"no_speech_prob":0.1036376953125,"words":[]},{"start":374.28000000000003,"end":380.2,"text":" people who are entering into college today, you know, if you're, you know, 19, 20, 21,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2055084745762712,"compression_ratio":1.625,"no_speech_prob":0.1036376953125,"words":[]},{"start":380.2,"end":383.08000000000004,"text":" you don't remember a time before Bitcoin existed.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2055084745762712,"compression_ratio":1.625,"no_speech_prob":0.1036376953125,"words":[]},{"start":383.08000000000004,"end":384.08000000000004,"text":" Right.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2055084745762712,"compression_ratio":1.625,"no_speech_prob":0.1036376953125,"words":[]},{"start":384.08000000000004,"end":385.48,"text":" Bitcoin was created 18 years ago.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2055084745762712,"compression_ratio":1.625,"no_speech_prob":0.1036376953125,"words":[]},{"start":385.64000000000004,"end":387.44,"text":" Ethereum now is 10 years old.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.18815104166666666,"compression_ratio":1.8482758620689654,"no_speech_prob":0.1258544921875,"words":[]},{"start":387.44,"end":391.16,"text":" That means in five years, Ethereum is going to be 15 years old and Bitcoin is going to","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.18815104166666666,"compression_ratio":1.8482758620689654,"no_speech_prob":0.1258544921875,"words":[]},{"start":391.16,"end":395.24,"text":" be, you know, I guess that would be 23.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.18815104166666666,"compression_ratio":1.8482758620689654,"no_speech_prob":0.1258544921875,"words":[]},{"start":395.24,"end":399.24,"text":" And really, what that means is that there's going to be generation that doesn't remember","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.18815104166666666,"compression_ratio":1.8482758620689654,"no_speech_prob":0.1258544921875,"words":[]},{"start":399.24,"end":401.32,"text":" time before Ethereum was created.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.18815104166666666,"compression_ratio":1.8482758620689654,"no_speech_prob":0.1258544921875,"words":[]},{"start":401.32,"end":404.8,"text":" And the way in which we think about, wow, you know, Bitcoin was just a macular conception.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.18815104166666666,"compression_ratio":1.8482758620689654,"no_speech_prob":0.1258544921875,"words":[]},{"start":404.8,"end":407.6,"text":" It's the first, you know, it's never going to have everything is always going to be less","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.18815104166666666,"compression_ratio":1.8482758620689654,"no_speech_prob":0.1258544921875,"words":[]},{"start":407.6,"end":408.6,"text":" Lindy than Bitcoin.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.18815104166666666,"compression_ratio":1.8482758620689654,"no_speech_prob":0.1258544921875,"words":[]},{"start":408.6,"end":411.16,"text":" And I think that to some extent, obviously, that's true.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.18815104166666666,"compression_ratio":1.8482758620689654,"no_speech_prob":0.1258544921875,"words":[]},{"start":411.16,"end":416.24,"text":" But it's also true that the delta between these assets gets smaller and smaller the older","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2358732876712329,"compression_ratio":2.0310077519379846,"no_speech_prob":0.0015010833740234375,"words":[]},{"start":416.24,"end":417.24,"text":" they are.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2358732876712329,"compression_ratio":2.0310077519379846,"no_speech_prob":0.0015010833740234375,"words":[]},{"start":417.24,"end":418.24,"text":" Right.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2358732876712329,"compression_ratio":2.0310077519379846,"no_speech_prob":0.0015010833740234375,"words":[]},{"start":418.24,"end":421.32000000000005,"text":" And so right now, we think of like, oh, you know, Salana is like this new thing and Ethereum","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2358732876712329,"compression_ratio":2.0310077519379846,"no_speech_prob":0.0015010833740234375,"words":[]},{"start":421.32000000000005,"end":424.56,"text":" is the old thing and, you know, can the new thing ever displace the old thing because the","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2358732876712329,"compression_ratio":2.0310077519379846,"no_speech_prob":0.0015010833740234375,"words":[]},{"start":424.56,"end":425.72,"text":" old thing is more Lindy.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2358732876712329,"compression_ratio":2.0310077519379846,"no_speech_prob":0.0015010833740234375,"words":[]},{"start":425.72,"end":430.52000000000004,"text":" You know, right now, Salana is what caught five years old, Ethereum is 10 years old.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2358732876712329,"compression_ratio":2.0310077519379846,"no_speech_prob":0.0015010833740234375,"words":[]},{"start":430.52000000000004,"end":433.16,"text":" So Ethereum is twice as old as Salana.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2358732876712329,"compression_ratio":2.0310077519379846,"no_speech_prob":0.0015010833740234375,"words":[]},{"start":433.16,"end":437.20000000000005,"text":" And that feels right now like, wow, that's so much more history and it's so much more","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2358732876712329,"compression_ratio":2.0310077519379846,"no_speech_prob":0.0015010833740234375,"words":[]},{"start":437.2,"end":441.08,"text":" august by the fact that it's been around for 10 years.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.16830708661417323,"compression_ratio":1.7626459143968871,"no_speech_prob":0.1708984375,"words":[]},{"start":441.08,"end":445.36,"text":" But at the same time, like, you know, give it another 10 years and Salana will be 15 years","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.16830708661417323,"compression_ratio":1.7626459143968871,"no_speech_prob":0.1708984375,"words":[]},{"start":445.36,"end":446.36,"text":" old.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.16830708661417323,"compression_ratio":1.7626459143968871,"no_speech_prob":0.1708984375,"words":[]},{"start":446.36,"end":447.36,"text":" Ethereum will be 20 years old.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.16830708661417323,"compression_ratio":1.7626459143968871,"no_speech_prob":0.1708984375,"words":[]},{"start":447.36,"end":451.59999999999997,"text":" And they're not going to feel so different in enough time.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.16830708661417323,"compression_ratio":1.7626459143968871,"no_speech_prob":0.1708984375,"words":[]},{"start":451.59999999999997,"end":455.8,"text":" So in addition to it being Ethereum's 10 year birthday, it's 10 years old.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.16830708661417323,"compression_ratio":1.7626459143968871,"no_speech_prob":0.1708984375,"words":[]},{"start":455.8,"end":459.36,"text":" It's also got 10 years of consecutive uptime.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.16830708661417323,"compression_ratio":1.7626459143968871,"no_speech_prob":0.1708984375,"words":[]},{"start":459.36,"end":465.48,"text":" And when you contrast that with Salana's 1.5 years of consecutive time, that feels a little","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.16830708661417323,"compression_ratio":1.7626459143968871,"no_speech_prob":0.1708984375,"words":[]},{"start":465.48,"end":467.48,"text":" bit of a different story.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.3266509433962264,"compression_ratio":1.7254237288135594,"no_speech_prob":0.399169921875,"words":[]},{"start":467.48,"end":468.48,"text":" And so I will.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.3266509433962264,"compression_ratio":1.7254237288135594,"no_speech_prob":0.399169921875,"words":[]},{"start":468.48,"end":469.48,"text":" Brought to you by Bankless.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.3266509433962264,"compression_ratio":1.7254237288135594,"no_speech_prob":0.399169921875,"words":[]},{"start":469.48,"end":471.48,"text":" A little bit on Brought to you by Bankless, that's right.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.3266509433962264,"compression_ratio":1.7254237288135594,"no_speech_prob":0.399169921875,"words":[]},{"start":471.48,"end":472.48,"text":" That's right.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.3266509433962264,"compression_ratio":1.7254237288135594,"no_speech_prob":0.399169921875,"words":[]},{"start":472.48,"end":473.48,"text":" Nice.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.3266509433962264,"compression_ratio":1.7254237288135594,"no_speech_prob":0.399169921875,"words":[]},{"start":473.48,"end":474.48,"text":" Nice.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.3266509433962264,"compression_ratio":1.7254237288135594,"no_speech_prob":0.399169921875,"words":[]},{"start":474.48,"end":476.48,"text":" It's not entirely equivalent.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.3266509433962264,"compression_ratio":1.7254237288135594,"no_speech_prob":0.399169921875,"words":[]},{"start":476.48,"end":477.48,"text":" All right.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.3266509433962264,"compression_ratio":1.7254237288135594,"no_speech_prob":0.399169921875,"words":[]},{"start":477.48,"end":478.48,"text":" Let's see if it's the project crypto.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.3266509433962264,"compression_ratio":1.7254237288135594,"no_speech_prob":0.399169921875,"words":[]},{"start":478.48,"end":479.48,"text":" All right.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.3266509433962264,"compression_ratio":1.7254237288135594,"no_speech_prob":0.399169921875,"words":[]},{"start":479.48,"end":483.76,"text":" Here's a beat out of his seed saying the SEC's new project crypto is the most bullish thing","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.3266509433962264,"compression_ratio":1.7254237288135594,"no_speech_prob":0.399169921875,"words":[]},{"start":483.76,"end":486.28000000000003,"text":" I've seen in a long time from a regulator.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.3266509433962264,"compression_ratio":1.7254237288135594,"no_speech_prob":0.399169921875,"words":[]},{"start":486.28000000000003,"end":487.28000000000003,"text":" Read the speed.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.3266509433962264,"compression_ratio":1.7254237288135594,"no_speech_prob":0.399169921875,"words":[]},{"start":487.28000000000003,"end":488.28000000000003,"text":" It's incredible.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.3266509433962264,"compression_ratio":1.7254237288135594,"no_speech_prob":0.399169921875,"words":[]},{"start":488.28000000000003,"end":489.28000000000003,"text":" Almost all tokens are not securities.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.3266509433962264,"compression_ratio":1.7254237288135594,"no_speech_prob":0.399169921875,"words":[]},{"start":489.28000000000003,"end":493.20000000000005,"text":" They want to discourage decentralization and Kubaki theater.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.3266509433962264,"compression_ratio":1.7254237288135594,"no_speech_prob":0.399169921875,"words":[]},{"start":493.2,"end":494.2,"text":" I don't know that word.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.18058035714285714,"compression_ratio":1.5966101694915253,"no_speech_prob":0.037872314453125,"words":[]},{"start":494.2,"end":495.2,"text":" Haseeb Kubaki.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.18058035714285714,"compression_ratio":1.5966101694915253,"no_speech_prob":0.037872314453125,"words":[]},{"start":495.2,"end":496.2,"text":" Kubaki theater.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.18058035714285714,"compression_ratio":1.5966101694915253,"no_speech_prob":0.037872314453125,"words":[]},{"start":496.2,"end":497.2,"text":" Excuse me.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.18058035714285714,"compression_ratio":1.5966101694915253,"no_speech_prob":0.037872314453125,"words":[]},{"start":497.2,"end":501.2,"text":" American should not get excluded by IP and VPN blocks.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.18058035714285714,"compression_ratio":1.5966101694915253,"no_speech_prob":0.037872314453125,"words":[]},{"start":501.2,"end":503.2,"text":" Let me just get into some of the details here.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.18058035714285714,"compression_ratio":1.5966101694915253,"no_speech_prob":0.037872314453125,"words":[]},{"start":503.2,"end":505.2,"text":" So this is a speech from Paul Atkins.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.18058035714285714,"compression_ratio":1.5966101694915253,"no_speech_prob":0.037872314453125,"words":[]},{"start":505.2,"end":506.2,"text":" It's on the website.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.18058035714285714,"compression_ratio":1.5966101694915253,"no_speech_prob":0.037872314453125,"words":[]},{"start":506.2,"end":508.2,"text":" There's a link in the show notes so you can go read it.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.18058035714285714,"compression_ratio":1.5966101694915253,"no_speech_prob":0.037872314453125,"words":[]},{"start":508.2,"end":510.2,"text":" And there are five things.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.18058035714285714,"compression_ratio":1.5966101694915253,"no_speech_prob":0.037872314453125,"words":[]},{"start":510.2,"end":514.2,"text":" Five main points that the SEC that Paul specifically wants to lay down.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.18058035714285714,"compression_ratio":1.5966101694915253,"no_speech_prob":0.037872314453125,"words":[]},{"start":514.2,"end":519.2,"text":" I want to take some time actually with you Haseeb and go one by one through those things.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.18058035714285714,"compression_ratio":1.5966101694915253,"no_speech_prob":0.037872314453125,"words":[]},{"start":519.2,"end":524.2,"text":" Before he gets to those five things, he lays up the context and a little bit of the history","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13189752252252251,"compression_ratio":1.7158671586715868,"no_speech_prob":0.01541900634765625,"words":[]},{"start":524.2,"end":529.2,"text":" of the SEC and he really just does a very good job going through a little bit of the history.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13189752252252251,"compression_ratio":1.7158671586715868,"no_speech_prob":0.01541900634765625,"words":[]},{"start":529.2,"end":532.44,"text":" I actually enjoy this kind of as just a history lesson.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13189752252252251,"compression_ratio":1.7158671586715868,"no_speech_prob":0.01541900634765625,"words":[]},{"start":532.44,"end":538.2,"text":" He talks about before the electrification of the American stock market, these paper certificates","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13189752252252251,"compression_ratio":1.7158671586715868,"no_speech_prob":0.01541900634765625,"words":[]},{"start":538.2,"end":543.2,"text":" had to be physically shipped up and down Wall Street and that's how they were being","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13189752252252251,"compression_ratio":1.7158671586715868,"no_speech_prob":0.01541900634765625,"words":[]},{"start":543.2,"end":544.2,"text":" traded.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13189752252252251,"compression_ratio":1.7158671586715868,"no_speech_prob":0.01541900634765625,"words":[]},{"start":544.2,"end":545.2,"text":" They were buying and selling them.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13189752252252251,"compression_ratio":1.7158671586715868,"no_speech_prob":0.01541900634765625,"words":[]},{"start":545.2,"end":549.2,"text":" They were going to be shipped around physically by people with little baskets running around Wall Street.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1497616525423729,"compression_ratio":1.8556338028169015,"no_speech_prob":0.06854248046875,"words":[]},{"start":549.2,"end":554.2,"text":" And apparently I didn't know this, but on Wednesday the stock market would close so that these","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1497616525423729,"compression_ratio":1.8556338028169015,"no_speech_prob":0.06854248046875,"words":[]},{"start":554.2,"end":558.2,"text":" like paper like paper pushers could catch up with the trades being made.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1497616525423729,"compression_ratio":1.8556338028169015,"no_speech_prob":0.06854248046875,"words":[]},{"start":558.2,"end":563.2,"text":" And so the stock market on Monday and Tuesday would trade and there was enough volume that","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1497616525423729,"compression_ratio":1.8556338028169015,"no_speech_prob":0.06854248046875,"words":[]},{"start":563.2,"end":567.2,"text":" all of a sudden there's a lag of all of these stocks certificates being traded.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1497616525423729,"compression_ratio":1.8556338028169015,"no_speech_prob":0.06854248046875,"words":[]},{"start":567.2,"end":570.2,"text":" And so they had to shut down the stock market on Wednesday so they could catch up.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1497616525423729,"compression_ratio":1.8556338028169015,"no_speech_prob":0.06854248046875,"words":[]},{"start":570.2,"end":574.2,"text":" And Paul, Paul Atkins highlights this, here's a quote.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12428977272727272,"compression_ratio":1.5302491103202847,"no_speech_prob":0.3662109375,"words":[]},{"start":574.2,"end":579.2,"text":" The breakdown over an antiquated system was described by the SEC chairman at the time as","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12428977272727272,"compression_ratio":1.5302491103202847,"no_speech_prob":0.3662109375,"words":[]},{"start":579.2,"end":584.2,"text":" the most prolonged and severe crisis in the securities industry in 40 years.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12428977272727272,"compression_ratio":1.5302491103202847,"no_speech_prob":0.3662109375,"words":[]},{"start":584.2,"end":587.2,"text":" Firms failed, investor confidence plummeted.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12428977272727272,"compression_ratio":1.5302491103202847,"no_speech_prob":0.3662109375,"words":[]},{"start":587.2,"end":595.2,"text":" He uses this metaphor to demonstrate why America's financial markets need to move on chain proactively","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12428977272727272,"compression_ratio":1.5302491103202847,"no_speech_prob":0.3662109375,"words":[]},{"start":595.2,"end":598.2,"text":" rather than retroactively, at least that's my interpretation.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12428977272727272,"compression_ratio":1.5302491103202847,"no_speech_prob":0.3662109375,"words":[]},{"start":598.2,"end":600.2,"text":" Here's another quote from Paul.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11465992647058823,"compression_ratio":1.6156583629893237,"no_speech_prob":0.201416015625,"words":[]},{"start":600.2,"end":606.2,"text":" So today I would like the world to go on notice that under my leadership the SEC will not stand by idly","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11465992647058823,"compression_ratio":1.6156583629893237,"no_speech_prob":0.201416015625,"words":[]},{"start":606.2,"end":611.2,"text":" and watch innovations develop overseas while our capital markets remain stagnant.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11465992647058823,"compression_ratio":1.6156583629893237,"no_speech_prob":0.201416015625,"words":[]},{"start":611.2,"end":615.2,"text":" To achieve President Trump's vision of making America the crypto capital of the world,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11465992647058823,"compression_ratio":1.6156583629893237,"no_speech_prob":0.201416015625,"words":[]},{"start":615.2,"end":620.2,"text":" yes, SEC much holistically consider the potential benefits and risks of moving our markets","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11465992647058823,"compression_ratio":1.6156583629893237,"no_speech_prob":0.201416015625,"words":[]},{"start":620.2,"end":623.2,"text":" from an on chain off chain environment to an on chain one.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11465992647058823,"compression_ratio":1.6156583629893237,"no_speech_prob":0.201416015625,"words":[]},{"start":623.2,"end":627.2,"text":" We are at the threshold of a new era in the history of our markets.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1598328025477707,"compression_ratio":1.7011494252873562,"no_speech_prob":0.29052734375,"words":[]},{"start":627.2,"end":629.2,"text":" As I mentioned earlier today, do you hear that storm?","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1598328025477707,"compression_ratio":1.7011494252873562,"no_speech_prob":0.29052734375,"words":[]},{"start":629.2,"end":631.2,"text":" Do you hear that lightning hissing?","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1598328025477707,"compression_ratio":1.7011494252873562,"no_speech_prob":0.29052734375,"words":[]},{"start":631.2,"end":632.2,"text":" Yeah, that's crazy.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1598328025477707,"compression_ratio":1.7011494252873562,"no_speech_prob":0.29052734375,"words":[]},{"start":632.2,"end":633.2,"text":" Coming through my microphone.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1598328025477707,"compression_ratio":1.7011494252873562,"no_speech_prob":0.29052734375,"words":[]},{"start":633.2,"end":635.2,"text":" Yeah, that's what we're talking about.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1598328025477707,"compression_ratio":1.7011494252873562,"no_speech_prob":0.29052734375,"words":[]},{"start":635.2,"end":636.2,"text":" Finishing the quote.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1598328025477707,"compression_ratio":1.7011494252873562,"no_speech_prob":0.29052734375,"words":[]},{"start":636.2,"end":639.2,"text":" As I mentioned earlier today, I'm announcing the launch of Project Crypto,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1598328025477707,"compression_ratio":1.7011494252873562,"no_speech_prob":0.29052734375,"words":[]},{"start":639.2,"end":643.2,"text":" a commission-wide initiative to modernize the securities, rules, and regulations","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1598328025477707,"compression_ratio":1.7011494252873562,"no_speech_prob":0.29052734375,"words":[]},{"start":643.2,"end":646.2,"text":" to enable America's financial markets to move on chain.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1598328025477707,"compression_ratio":1.7011494252873562,"no_speech_prob":0.29052734375,"words":[]},{"start":646.2,"end":648.2,"text":" Okay, so like I said, before we get into the five things,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1598328025477707,"compression_ratio":1.7011494252873562,"no_speech_prob":0.29052734375,"words":[]},{"start":648.2,"end":652.2,"text":" vibe check about this setup and the speech as a whole.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1598328025477707,"compression_ratio":1.7011494252873562,"no_speech_prob":0.29052734375,"words":[]},{"start":652.2,"end":654.2,"text":" I mean, it's pretty dramatic.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10915178571428572,"compression_ratio":1.5625,"no_speech_prob":0.006900787353515625,"words":[]},{"start":654.2,"end":659.2,"text":" It's very clear that Paul Atkins, like he's been brought in to the SEC","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10915178571428572,"compression_ratio":1.5625,"no_speech_prob":0.006900787353515625,"words":[]},{"start":659.2,"end":663.2,"text":" and his whole job is to do this massive overhaul from the Gensere era.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10915178571428572,"compression_ratio":1.5625,"no_speech_prob":0.006900787353515625,"words":[]},{"start":663.2,"end":666.2,"text":" And he immediately opens with giving some historical context,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10915178571428572,"compression_ratio":1.5625,"no_speech_prob":0.006900787353515625,"words":[]},{"start":666.2,"end":671.2,"text":" but also distancing himself from his predecessor and making very clear","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10915178571428572,"compression_ratio":1.5625,"no_speech_prob":0.006900787353515625,"words":[]},{"start":671.2,"end":673.2,"text":" this is a new day for the SEC.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10915178571428572,"compression_ratio":1.5625,"no_speech_prob":0.006900787353515625,"words":[]},{"start":673.2,"end":677.2,"text":" I thought it was a very, very powerful setup for what is really,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10915178571428572,"compression_ratio":1.5625,"no_speech_prob":0.006900787353515625,"words":[]},{"start":677.2,"end":681.2,"text":" I think probably the first really substantial policy-setting speech","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11234789823008849,"compression_ratio":1.6123188405797102,"no_speech_prob":0.007232666015625,"words":[]},{"start":681.2,"end":685.2,"text":" that Atkins has given for the new SEC since he's come in.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11234789823008849,"compression_ratio":1.6123188405797102,"no_speech_prob":0.007232666015625,"words":[]},{"start":685.2,"end":689.2,"text":" Let's get into the first big highlight that he said.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11234789823008849,"compression_ratio":1.6123188405797102,"no_speech_prob":0.007232666015625,"words":[]},{"start":689.2,"end":695.2,"text":" So quote, first, we will bring crypto asset distribution back to America.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11234789823008849,"compression_ratio":1.6123188405797102,"no_speech_prob":0.007232666015625,"words":[]},{"start":695.2,"end":697.2,"text":" My interpretation of this is when crypto assets are created","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11234789823008849,"compression_ratio":1.6123188405797102,"no_speech_prob":0.007232666015625,"words":[]},{"start":697.2,"end":701.2,"text":" when they're minted, when they're, you know, air drop or whatever.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11234789823008849,"compression_ratio":1.6123188405797102,"no_speech_prob":0.007232666015625,"words":[]},{"start":701.2,"end":705.2,"text":" We want to do that onshore in a way that makes everyone feel good","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11234789823008849,"compression_ratio":1.6123188405797102,"no_speech_prob":0.007232666015625,"words":[]},{"start":705.2,"end":707.2,"text":" and the capital in your stays onshore.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10336106115107914,"compression_ratio":1.7370129870129871,"no_speech_prob":0.0849609375,"words":[]},{"start":707.2,"end":710.2,"text":" So this is trying to move away from like the foundation model,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10336106115107914,"compression_ratio":1.7370129870129871,"no_speech_prob":0.0849609375,"words":[]},{"start":710.2,"end":713.2,"text":" allowing startups themselves to be the asset issuers","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10336106115107914,"compression_ratio":1.7370129870129871,"no_speech_prob":0.0849609375,"words":[]},{"start":713.2,"end":715.2,"text":" and those startups be inside the United States.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10336106115107914,"compression_ratio":1.7370129870129871,"no_speech_prob":0.0849609375,"words":[]},{"start":715.2,"end":717.2,"text":" That's my takeaway from this section.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10336106115107914,"compression_ratio":1.7370129870129871,"no_speech_prob":0.0849609375,"words":[]},{"start":717.2,"end":719.2,"text":" What's your big takeaway here?","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10336106115107914,"compression_ratio":1.7370129870129871,"no_speech_prob":0.0849609375,"words":[]},{"start":719.2,"end":720.2,"text":" Yeah, I agree with that.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10336106115107914,"compression_ratio":1.7370129870129871,"no_speech_prob":0.0849609375,"words":[]},{"start":720.2,"end":723.2,"text":" I think, you know, when I say the decentralization kabuki theater,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10336106115107914,"compression_ratio":1.7370129870129871,"no_speech_prob":0.0849609375,"words":[]},{"start":723.2,"end":726.2,"text":" that's what I'm referring to is like people setting up a labs locally","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10336106115107914,"compression_ratio":1.7370129870129871,"no_speech_prob":0.0849609375,"words":[]},{"start":726.2,"end":730.2,"text":" and then getting a Singapore or a Swiss foundation that has a separate board","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10336106115107914,"compression_ratio":1.7370129870129871,"no_speech_prob":0.0849609375,"words":[]},{"start":730.2,"end":732.2,"text":" that has a this or that.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10336106115107914,"compression_ratio":1.7370129870129871,"no_speech_prob":0.0849609375,"words":[]},{"start":732.2,"end":736.2,"text":" And he's like, look, why are we wasting so much time and energy on that stuff?","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10771618150684932,"compression_ratio":1.6238532110091743,"no_speech_prob":0.00572967529296875,"words":[]},{"start":736.2,"end":740.2,"text":" Remember, Paul Atkins is an advisor to reserve protocol,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10771618150684932,"compression_ratio":1.6238532110091743,"no_speech_prob":0.00572967529296875,"words":[]},{"start":740.2,"end":742.2,"text":" which is a stablecoin.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10771618150684932,"compression_ratio":1.6238532110091743,"no_speech_prob":0.00572967529296875,"words":[]},{"start":742.2,"end":744.2,"text":" So he's seen this firsthand.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10771618150684932,"compression_ratio":1.6238532110091743,"no_speech_prob":0.00572967529296875,"words":[]},{"start":744.2,"end":745.2,"text":" He knows what that's like.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10771618150684932,"compression_ratio":1.6238532110091743,"no_speech_prob":0.00572967529296875,"words":[]},{"start":745.2,"end":750.2,"text":" He sees the amount of just kind of stupid wheel-turning that people have to do","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10771618150684932,"compression_ratio":1.6238532110091743,"no_speech_prob":0.00572967529296875,"words":[]},{"start":750.2,"end":752.2,"text":" in order to have some nominal compliance with the law.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10771618150684932,"compression_ratio":1.6238532110091743,"no_speech_prob":0.00572967529296875,"words":[]},{"start":752.2,"end":754.2,"text":" We said, well, how would that law then?","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10771618150684932,"compression_ratio":1.6238532110091743,"no_speech_prob":0.00572967529296875,"words":[]},{"start":754.2,"end":756.2,"text":" Let's just like make sure that entrepreneurs are doing the right thing.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10771618150684932,"compression_ratio":1.6238532110091743,"no_speech_prob":0.00572967529296875,"words":[]},{"start":756.2,"end":757.2,"text":" So he gets it.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10771618150684932,"compression_ratio":1.6238532110091743,"no_speech_prob":0.00572967529296875,"words":[]},{"start":757.2,"end":760.2,"text":" The second one, second to achieve the president's goals","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10771618150684932,"compression_ratio":1.6238532110091743,"no_speech_prob":0.00572967529296875,"words":[]},{"start":760.2,"end":764.2,"text":" is incumbent on the SEC to ensure the market participants have maximum choice","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13707386363636365,"compression_ratio":1.6245733788395904,"no_speech_prob":0.008056640625,"words":[]},{"start":764.2,"end":767.2,"text":" when and where to custody and trade crypto assets.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13707386363636365,"compression_ratio":1.6245733788395904,"no_speech_prob":0.008056640625,"words":[]},{"start":767.2,"end":770.2,"text":" I've said before, the right to self-custody of one's private property","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13707386363636365,"compression_ratio":1.6245733788395904,"no_speech_prob":0.008056640625,"words":[]},{"start":770.2,"end":772.2,"text":" is a core American value.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13707386363636365,"compression_ratio":1.6245733788395904,"no_speech_prob":0.008056640625,"words":[]},{"start":772.2,"end":775.2,"text":" I think this one is just a nail, a further nail in the coffin","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13707386363636365,"compression_ratio":1.6245733788395904,"no_speech_prob":0.008056640625,"words":[]},{"start":775.2,"end":777.2,"text":" of Operation Shookpoint 2.0.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13707386363636365,"compression_ratio":1.6245733788395904,"no_speech_prob":0.008056640625,"words":[]},{"start":777.2,"end":779.2,"text":" Is that kind of the main reasoning here?","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13707386363636365,"compression_ratio":1.6245733788395904,"no_speech_prob":0.008056640625,"words":[]},{"start":779.2,"end":780.2,"text":" That's a part of it.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13707386363636365,"compression_ratio":1.6245733788395904,"no_speech_prob":0.008056640625,"words":[]},{"start":780.2,"end":783.2,"text":" It's also the president has stated many times that he wants to protect","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13707386363636365,"compression_ratio":1.6245733788395904,"no_speech_prob":0.008056640625,"words":[]},{"start":783.2,"end":785.2,"text":" the rights of self-custody.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13707386363636365,"compression_ratio":1.6245733788395904,"no_speech_prob":0.008056640625,"words":[]},{"start":786.2,"end":790.2,"text":" There was some guidance if you remember from the SEC SAP 121,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11603682170542635,"compression_ratio":1.6126760563380282,"no_speech_prob":0.117431640625,"words":[]},{"start":790.2,"end":793.2,"text":" which got very famously litigated last year","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11603682170542635,"compression_ratio":1.6126760563380282,"no_speech_prob":0.117431640625,"words":[]},{"start":793.2,"end":796.2,"text":" about allowing banks to custody crypto.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11603682170542635,"compression_ratio":1.6126760563380282,"no_speech_prob":0.117431640625,"words":[]},{"start":796.2,"end":799.2,"text":" Basically, I think what he's saying here is that, look,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11603682170542635,"compression_ratio":1.6126760563380282,"no_speech_prob":0.117431640625,"words":[]},{"start":799.2,"end":801.2,"text":" we're not going to get in the way of custody,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11603682170542635,"compression_ratio":1.6126760563380282,"no_speech_prob":0.117431640625,"words":[]},{"start":801.2,"end":804.2,"text":" whether it's self-custody or whether it's custody on behalf of banks.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11603682170542635,"compression_ratio":1.6126760563380282,"no_speech_prob":0.117431640625,"words":[]},{"start":804.2,"end":806.2,"text":" Let's just get the right answers.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11603682170542635,"compression_ratio":1.6126760563380282,"no_speech_prob":0.117431640625,"words":[]},{"start":806.2,"end":808.2,"text":" Let's not be prescriptive about it.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11603682170542635,"compression_ratio":1.6126760563380282,"no_speech_prob":0.117431640625,"words":[]},{"start":808.2,"end":813.2,"text":" Yeah, so we're getting rid of the whole hosted versus un-hosted wallet","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11603682170542635,"compression_ratio":1.6126760563380282,"no_speech_prob":0.117431640625,"words":[]},{"start":813.2,"end":817.2,"text":" issue, and we're just saying, hey, individuals can host crypto assets.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12321428571428572,"compression_ratio":1.5714285714285714,"no_speech_prob":0.0306549072265625,"words":[]},{"start":817.2,"end":819.2,"text":" Stop talking about it.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12321428571428572,"compression_ratio":1.5714285714285714,"no_speech_prob":0.0306549072265625,"words":[]},{"start":819.2,"end":821.2,"text":" That's just going to be the way that it is.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12321428571428572,"compression_ratio":1.5714285714285714,"no_speech_prob":0.0306549072265625,"words":[]},{"start":821.2,"end":822.2,"text":" Exactly.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12321428571428572,"compression_ratio":1.5714285714285714,"no_speech_prob":0.0306549072265625,"words":[]},{"start":822.2,"end":825.2,"text":" I'm a huge fan, obviously, as somebody with a podcast called Bankless.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12321428571428572,"compression_ratio":1.5714285714285714,"no_speech_prob":0.0306549072265625,"words":[]},{"start":825.2,"end":829.2,"text":" Third, a key priority of my chairmanship is to allow market participants","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12321428571428572,"compression_ratio":1.5714285714285714,"no_speech_prob":0.0306549072265625,"words":[]},{"start":829.2,"end":832.2,"text":" to innovate with, quote, super apps.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12321428571428572,"compression_ratio":1.5714285714285714,"no_speech_prob":0.0306549072265625,"words":[]},{"start":832.2,"end":834.2,"text":" I am often asked, what do you mean by a super app?","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12321428571428572,"compression_ratio":1.5714285714285714,"no_speech_prob":0.0306549072265625,"words":[]},{"start":834.2,"end":838.2,"text":" Plain and simple securities intermediaries should be able to go to offer","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12321428571428572,"compression_ratio":1.5714285714285714,"no_speech_prob":0.0306549072265625,"words":[]},{"start":838.2,"end":842.2,"text":" a broad range of products and services under one roof with a single license.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12321428571428572,"compression_ratio":1.5714285714285714,"no_speech_prob":0.0306549072265625,"words":[]},{"start":842.2,"end":846.2,"text":" A broker dealer with an alternative trading system should be able to offer trading","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13070101351351351,"compression_ratio":1.7525423728813558,"no_speech_prob":0.002017974853515625,"words":[]},{"start":846.2,"end":850.2,"text":" in a non-security crypto assets alongside crypto asset securities,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13070101351351351,"compression_ratio":1.7525423728813558,"no_speech_prob":0.002017974853515625,"words":[]},{"start":850.2,"end":855.2,"text":" traditional securities, and other services like crypto asset staking and lending","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13070101351351351,"compression_ratio":1.7525423728813558,"no_speech_prob":0.002017974853515625,"words":[]},{"start":855.2,"end":860.2,"text":" without requiring 50 plus state licenses and multiple federal licenses.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13070101351351351,"compression_ratio":1.7525423728813558,"no_speech_prob":0.002017974853515625,"words":[]},{"start":860.2,"end":863.2,"text":" Reading between the lines, I'm guessing this is whatever coin base is doing","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13070101351351351,"compression_ratio":1.7525423728813558,"no_speech_prob":0.002017974853515625,"words":[]},{"start":863.2,"end":866.2,"text":" is like a big benefit to them because they want to do securities.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13070101351351351,"compression_ratio":1.7525423728813558,"no_speech_prob":0.002017974853515625,"words":[]},{"start":866.2,"end":871.2,"text":" I'm assuming Robinhood is also what's the vibe of this particular thing?","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13070101351351351,"compression_ratio":1.7525423728813558,"no_speech_prob":0.002017974853515625,"words":[]},{"start":872.2,"end":874.2,"text":" To me, that's simplifying licenses.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08439555921052631,"compression_ratio":1.716867469879518,"no_speech_prob":0.0130157470703125,"words":[]},{"start":874.2,"end":877.2,"text":" So everybody in crypto has always been very worried about,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08439555921052631,"compression_ratio":1.716867469879518,"no_speech_prob":0.0130157470703125,"words":[]},{"start":877.2,"end":880.2,"text":" do I have the right licenses to offer the product I'm offering?","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08439555921052631,"compression_ratio":1.716867469879518,"no_speech_prob":0.0130157470703125,"words":[]},{"start":880.2,"end":883.2,"text":" And the answer from the SEC historically has been,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08439555921052631,"compression_ratio":1.716867469879518,"no_speech_prob":0.0130157470703125,"words":[]},{"start":883.2,"end":885.2,"text":" don't ask us.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08439555921052631,"compression_ratio":1.716867469879518,"no_speech_prob":0.0130157470703125,"words":[]},{"start":885.2,"end":888.2,"text":" We'll tell you later when we sue you whether or not you got the right licenses.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08439555921052631,"compression_ratio":1.716867469879518,"no_speech_prob":0.0130157470703125,"words":[]},{"start":888.2,"end":892.2,"text":" So this has also caused a lot of financial institutions and a lot of fintechs","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08439555921052631,"compression_ratio":1.716867469879518,"no_speech_prob":0.0130157470703125,"words":[]},{"start":892.2,"end":894.2,"text":" to be very careful about offering crypto.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08439555921052631,"compression_ratio":1.716867469879518,"no_speech_prob":0.0130157470703125,"words":[]},{"start":894.2,"end":895.2,"text":" And we know why.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08439555921052631,"compression_ratio":1.716867469879518,"no_speech_prob":0.0130157470703125,"words":[]},{"start":895.2,"end":897.2,"text":" You know, Robinhood got sued, Coinbase got sued.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08439555921052631,"compression_ratio":1.716867469879518,"no_speech_prob":0.0130157470703125,"words":[]},{"start":897.2,"end":900.2,"text":" What they're saying here very clearly is that we're going to make it really easy","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08439555921052631,"compression_ratio":1.716867469879518,"no_speech_prob":0.0130157470703125,"words":[]},{"start":900.2,"end":902.2,"text":" to understand what licenses you need.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1566751700680272,"compression_ratio":1.7914110429447854,"no_speech_prob":0.0006561279296875,"words":[]},{"start":902.2,"end":904.2,"text":" And we're going to make it as few as possible.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1566751700680272,"compression_ratio":1.7914110429447854,"no_speech_prob":0.0006561279296875,"words":[]},{"start":904.2,"end":908.2,"text":" And we are going to make it difficult for individual states to bring suits against you.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1566751700680272,"compression_ratio":1.7914110429447854,"no_speech_prob":0.0006561279296875,"words":[]},{"start":908.2,"end":911.2,"text":" Because of course, like one of the difficulties of building the next coin base","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1566751700680272,"compression_ratio":1.7914110429447854,"no_speech_prob":0.0006561279296875,"words":[]},{"start":911.2,"end":914.2,"text":" and competing with Coinbase is that how are you going to get licenses","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1566751700680272,"compression_ratio":1.7914110429447854,"no_speech_prob":0.0006561279296875,"words":[]},{"start":914.2,"end":916.2,"text":" in all the states that Coinbase has licensed operating in?","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1566751700680272,"compression_ratio":1.7914110429447854,"no_speech_prob":0.0006561279296875,"words":[]},{"start":916.2,"end":919.2,"text":" That's a really part of doing business in America.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1566751700680272,"compression_ratio":1.7914110429447854,"no_speech_prob":0.0006561279296875,"words":[]},{"start":919.2,"end":923.2,"text":" When you know, federal wide licensing makes it really easy to just say,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1566751700680272,"compression_ratio":1.7914110429447854,"no_speech_prob":0.0006561279296875,"words":[]},{"start":923.2,"end":925.2,"text":" look, I got the one license.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1566751700680272,"compression_ratio":1.7914110429447854,"no_speech_prob":0.0006561279296875,"words":[]},{"start":925.2,"end":927.2,"text":" Now I can operate in America and of story.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1566751700680272,"compression_ratio":1.7914110429447854,"no_speech_prob":0.0006561279296875,"words":[]},{"start":927.2,"end":928.2,"text":" Amazing.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1566751700680272,"compression_ratio":1.7914110429447854,"no_speech_prob":0.0006561279296875,"words":[]},{"start":928.2,"end":929.2,"text":" Okay.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09692028985507246,"compression_ratio":1.6233766233766234,"no_speech_prob":0.0033245086669921875,"words":[]},{"start":929.2,"end":930.2,"text":" Yeah.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09692028985507246,"compression_ratio":1.6233766233766234,"no_speech_prob":0.0033245086669921875,"words":[]},{"start":930.2,"end":932.2,"text":" So I live in New York.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09692028985507246,"compression_ratio":1.6233766233766234,"no_speech_prob":0.0033245086669921875,"words":[]},{"start":932.2,"end":935.2,"text":" There's a number of crypto services that I just don't have access to","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09692028985507246,"compression_ratio":1.6233766233766234,"no_speech_prob":0.0033245086669921875,"words":[]},{"start":935.2,"end":937.2,"text":" because New York is apparently really hard to get a license to.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09692028985507246,"compression_ratio":1.6233766233766234,"no_speech_prob":0.0033245086669921875,"words":[]},{"start":937.2,"end":938.2,"text":" So that would be gone.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09692028985507246,"compression_ratio":1.6233766233766234,"no_speech_prob":0.0033245086669921875,"words":[]},{"start":938.2,"end":939.2,"text":" I would assume.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09692028985507246,"compression_ratio":1.6233766233766234,"no_speech_prob":0.0033245086669921875,"words":[]},{"start":939.2,"end":942.2,"text":" I mean, the SEC can't do that in one fell swoop,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09692028985507246,"compression_ratio":1.6233766233766234,"no_speech_prob":0.0033245086669921875,"words":[]},{"start":942.2,"end":945.2,"text":" but they can certainly try and start pushing in that direction.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09692028985507246,"compression_ratio":1.6233766233766234,"no_speech_prob":0.0033245086669921875,"words":[]},{"start":945.2,"end":946.2,"text":" Okay.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09692028985507246,"compression_ratio":1.6233766233766234,"no_speech_prob":0.0033245086669921875,"words":[]},{"start":946.2,"end":948.2,"text":" And then the fourth one.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09692028985507246,"compression_ratio":1.6233766233766234,"no_speech_prob":0.0033245086669921875,"words":[]},{"start":948.2,"end":952.2,"text":" Fourth, I have directed the commission staff to update and created agency rules","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09692028985507246,"compression_ratio":1.6233766233766234,"no_speech_prob":0.0033245086669921875,"words":[]},{"start":952.2,"end":956.2,"text":" and regulations to unleash the potential of on-chain software systems","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09692028985507246,"compression_ratio":1.6233766233766234,"no_speech_prob":0.0033245086669921875,"words":[]},{"start":956.2,"end":958.2,"text":" in our securities markets.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.06763109110169492,"compression_ratio":1.7732342007434945,"no_speech_prob":0.00757598876953125,"words":[]},{"start":958.2,"end":960.2,"text":" On-chain software comes in many shapes and sizes.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.06763109110169492,"compression_ratio":1.7732342007434945,"no_speech_prob":0.00757598876953125,"words":[]},{"start":960.2,"end":964.2,"text":" Some of these systems are truly decentralized and not operated by any intermediary.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.06763109110169492,"compression_ratio":1.7732342007434945,"no_speech_prob":0.00757598876953125,"words":[]},{"start":964.2,"end":967.2,"text":" They're on-chain software systems have an operator.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.06763109110169492,"compression_ratio":1.7732342007434945,"no_speech_prob":0.00757598876953125,"words":[]},{"start":967.2,"end":972.2,"text":" Both types of on-chain software should have a place within our financial markets.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.06763109110169492,"compression_ratio":1.7732342007434945,"no_speech_prob":0.00757598876953125,"words":[]},{"start":972.2,"end":974.2,"text":" What's the impact of this one?","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.06763109110169492,"compression_ratio":1.7732342007434945,"no_speech_prob":0.00757598876953125,"words":[]},{"start":974.2,"end":979.2,"text":" So this is all about the idea that, you know, you do not need to pretend","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.06763109110169492,"compression_ratio":1.7732342007434945,"no_speech_prob":0.00757598876953125,"words":[]},{"start":979.2,"end":984.2,"text":" to be running a decentralized system in order to be able to operate in crypto.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.06763109110169492,"compression_ratio":1.7732342007434945,"no_speech_prob":0.00757598876953125,"words":[]},{"start":984.2,"end":987.2,"text":" If it's centralized or if it's a point to centralization, that's okay.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09497767857142857,"compression_ratio":1.7574750830564785,"no_speech_prob":0.0206298828125,"words":[]},{"start":987.2,"end":989.2,"text":" You can operate on equal footing.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09497767857142857,"compression_ratio":1.7574750830564785,"no_speech_prob":0.0206298828125,"words":[]},{"start":989.2,"end":992.2,"text":" There might be different regulatory requirements, but it's not a no.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09497767857142857,"compression_ratio":1.7574750830564785,"no_speech_prob":0.0206298828125,"words":[]},{"start":992.2,"end":996.2,"text":" It's a, okay, here are the rules for this side, here are the rules for that side.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09497767857142857,"compression_ratio":1.7574750830564785,"no_speech_prob":0.0206298828125,"words":[]},{"start":996.2,"end":1000.2,"text":" What we want to make very clear is that, you know, under the previous administration,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09497767857142857,"compression_ratio":1.7574750830564785,"no_speech_prob":0.0206298828125,"words":[]},{"start":1000.2,"end":1003.2,"text":" it was very unclear if Uniswap is allowed to exist.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09497767857142857,"compression_ratio":1.7574750830564785,"no_speech_prob":0.0206298828125,"words":[]},{"start":1003.2,"end":1007.2,"text":" And everything the previous SEC was doing was looking at something like Uniswap,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09497767857142857,"compression_ratio":1.7574750830564785,"no_speech_prob":0.0206298828125,"words":[]},{"start":1007.2,"end":1009.2,"text":" which is fully on-chain, fully decentralized and said,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09497767857142857,"compression_ratio":1.7574750830564785,"no_speech_prob":0.0206298828125,"words":[]},{"start":1009.2,"end":1016.2,"text":" either one, this is breaking the rules, or two, we're going to find individual vectors of centralization","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12149003623188406,"compression_ratio":1.8932806324110671,"no_speech_prob":0.131103515625,"words":[]},{"start":1016.2,"end":1020.2,"text":" and say, oh, you run a website, you run a VPN, you run a this thing, you run a that thing,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12149003623188406,"compression_ratio":1.8932806324110671,"no_speech_prob":0.131103515625,"words":[]},{"start":1020.2,"end":1022.2,"text":" you have, you have, you know, indexers.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12149003623188406,"compression_ratio":1.8932806324110671,"no_speech_prob":0.131103515625,"words":[]},{"start":1022.2,"end":1026.2,"text":" This is a point of centralization and that's how we're going to got to you, okay.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12149003623188406,"compression_ratio":1.8932806324110671,"no_speech_prob":0.131103515625,"words":[]},{"start":1026.2,"end":1030.2,"text":" Here, he's saying very clearly, we're done with that.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12149003623188406,"compression_ratio":1.8932806324110671,"no_speech_prob":0.131103515625,"words":[]},{"start":1030.2,"end":1033.2,"text":" You tell us clearly what you're doing, we'll tell you what rules you have to follow,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12149003623188406,"compression_ratio":1.8932806324110671,"no_speech_prob":0.131103515625,"words":[]},{"start":1033.2,"end":1035.2,"text":" but both get to exist.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12149003623188406,"compression_ratio":1.8932806324110671,"no_speech_prob":0.131103515625,"words":[]},{"start":1036.2,"end":1040.2,"text":" And I would imagine that this is particularly relevant to, like, lay it, for example,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1734375,"compression_ratio":1.8557993730407523,"no_speech_prob":0.05255126953125,"words":[]},{"start":1040.2,"end":1043.2,"text":" just one example, is layer two is with a centralized sequencer.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1734375,"compression_ratio":1.8557993730407523,"no_speech_prob":0.05255126953125,"words":[]},{"start":1043.2,"end":1046.2,"text":" There's been conversations of a layer two of the centralized sequencer,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1734375,"compression_ratio":1.8557993730407523,"no_speech_prob":0.05255126953125,"words":[]},{"start":1046.2,"end":1048.2,"text":" it's never going to be Wall Street ready.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1734375,"compression_ratio":1.8557993730407523,"no_speech_prob":0.05255126953125,"words":[]},{"start":1048.2,"end":1050.2,"text":" Well, Robinhood's definitely going to have a centralized sequencer,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1734375,"compression_ratio":1.8557993730407523,"no_speech_prob":0.05255126953125,"words":[]},{"start":1050.2,"end":1054.2,"text":" and Robinhood's trying to use their chain to benefit their own products,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1734375,"compression_ratio":1.8557993730407523,"no_speech_prob":0.05255126953125,"words":[]},{"start":1054.2,"end":1056.2,"text":" probably just straight in the Robinhood app.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1734375,"compression_ratio":1.8557993730407523,"no_speech_prob":0.05255126953125,"words":[]},{"start":1056.2,"end":1059.2,"text":" Same thing with Coinbase, using Morpho on base, which again,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1734375,"compression_ratio":1.8557993730407523,"no_speech_prob":0.05255126953125,"words":[]},{"start":1059.2,"end":1063.2,"text":" base has a centralized sequencer, and they're using it on the Coinbase front end.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1734375,"compression_ratio":1.8557993730407523,"no_speech_prob":0.05255126953125,"words":[]},{"start":1063.2,"end":1066.2,"text":" Something like this, where the existence of a centralized sequencer","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08401268115942029,"compression_ratio":1.7548387096774194,"no_speech_prob":0.006191253662109375,"words":[]},{"start":1066.2,"end":1070.2,"text":" is just an irrelevant detail for whether it's compliant or not","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08401268115942029,"compression_ratio":1.7548387096774194,"no_speech_prob":0.006191253662109375,"words":[]},{"start":1070.2,"end":1073.2,"text":" for integration into some front end somewhere.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08401268115942029,"compression_ratio":1.7548387096774194,"no_speech_prob":0.006191253662109375,"words":[]},{"start":1073.2,"end":1075.2,"text":" Well, so it's not an irrelevant detail.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08401268115942029,"compression_ratio":1.7548387096774194,"no_speech_prob":0.006191253662109375,"words":[]},{"start":1075.2,"end":1077.2,"text":" And at the end of the day, there's a policy speech,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08401268115942029,"compression_ratio":1.7548387096774194,"no_speech_prob":0.006191253662109375,"words":[]},{"start":1077.2,"end":1080.2,"text":" so we don't have a lot of detail here about what exactly he means,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08401268115942029,"compression_ratio":1.7548387096774194,"no_speech_prob":0.006191253662109375,"words":[]},{"start":1080.2,"end":1083.2,"text":" but it does mean that there's probably going to be some framework","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08401268115942029,"compression_ratio":1.7548387096774194,"no_speech_prob":0.006191253662109375,"words":[]},{"start":1083.2,"end":1085.2,"text":" into which something like base fits.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08401268115942029,"compression_ratio":1.7548387096774194,"no_speech_prob":0.006191253662109375,"words":[]},{"start":1085.2,"end":1088.2,"text":" One could have imagined, you know, a couple of years ago,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08401268115942029,"compression_ratio":1.7548387096774194,"no_speech_prob":0.006191253662109375,"words":[]},{"start":1088.2,"end":1092.2,"text":" that maybe what base is doing is just illegal.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08401268115942029,"compression_ratio":1.7548387096774194,"no_speech_prob":0.006191253662109375,"words":[]},{"start":1092.2,"end":1094.2,"text":" And why is it just illegal? Like, well, you know,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08205581761006289,"compression_ratio":1.7616279069767442,"no_speech_prob":0.0017824172973632812,"words":[]},{"start":1094.2,"end":1096.2,"text":" Coinbase is running the sequencer.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08205581761006289,"compression_ratio":1.7616279069767442,"no_speech_prob":0.0017824172973632812,"words":[]},{"start":1096.2,"end":1098.2,"text":" They could decide to stop the transactions if they wanted.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08205581761006289,"compression_ratio":1.7616279069767442,"no_speech_prob":0.0017824172973632812,"words":[]},{"start":1098.2,"end":1102.2,"text":" Therefore, this is a broker dealer or a money transmitter or something.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08205581761006289,"compression_ratio":1.7616279069767442,"no_speech_prob":0.0017824172973632812,"words":[]},{"start":1102.2,"end":1105.2,"text":" It's doing all sorts of things that are somehow falling under, you know,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08205581761006289,"compression_ratio":1.7616279069767442,"no_speech_prob":0.0017824172973632812,"words":[]},{"start":1105.2,"end":1107.2,"text":" other financial laws.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08205581761006289,"compression_ratio":1.7616279069767442,"no_speech_prob":0.0017824172973632812,"words":[]},{"start":1107.2,"end":1110.2,"text":" I think what he's signaling here is that that's not our intention.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08205581761006289,"compression_ratio":1.7616279069767442,"no_speech_prob":0.0017824172973632812,"words":[]},{"start":1110.2,"end":1114.2,"text":" We want to allow for there to be these kind of mixed levels of centralization","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08205581761006289,"compression_ratio":1.7616279069767442,"no_speech_prob":0.0017824172973632812,"words":[]},{"start":1114.2,"end":1117.2,"text":" that are not going to make you under some extremely onerous regime.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08205581761006289,"compression_ratio":1.7616279069767442,"no_speech_prob":0.0017824172973632812,"words":[]},{"start":1117.2,"end":1118.2,"text":" We're going to figure it out.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08205581761006289,"compression_ratio":1.7616279069767442,"no_speech_prob":0.0017824172973632812,"words":[]},{"start":1118.2,"end":1120.2,"text":" Give us some time, but we're going to figure it out.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08205581761006289,"compression_ratio":1.7616279069767442,"no_speech_prob":0.0017824172973632812,"words":[]},{"start":1120.2,"end":1122.2,"text":" But this is the spirit of what we're moving towards.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10047901459854014,"compression_ratio":1.7396449704142012,"no_speech_prob":0.0229644775390625,"words":[]},{"start":1122.2,"end":1123.2,"text":" Mm-hmm.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10047901459854014,"compression_ratio":1.7396449704142012,"no_speech_prob":0.0229644775390625,"words":[]},{"start":1123.2,"end":1124.2,"text":" And then the fifth, the last one.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10047901459854014,"compression_ratio":1.7396449704142012,"no_speech_prob":0.0229644775390625,"words":[]},{"start":1124.2,"end":1126.2,"text":" Finally, innovation and entrepreneurialism","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10047901459854014,"compression_ratio":1.7396449704142012,"no_speech_prob":0.0229644775390625,"words":[]},{"start":1126.2,"end":1128.2,"text":" are the engines of the American economy.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10047901459854014,"compression_ratio":1.7396449704142012,"no_speech_prob":0.0229644775390625,"words":[]},{"start":1128.2,"end":1131.2,"text":" President Trump has described America as a nation of builders.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10047901459854014,"compression_ratio":1.7396449704142012,"no_speech_prob":0.0229644775390625,"words":[]},{"start":1131.2,"end":1134.2,"text":" Under my leadership, the commission will encourage our nation's builders","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10047901459854014,"compression_ratio":1.7396449704142012,"no_speech_prob":0.0229644775390625,"words":[]},{"start":1134.2,"end":1138.2,"text":" rather than constrain them with red tape and one size fits all rules.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10047901459854014,"compression_ratio":1.7396449704142012,"no_speech_prob":0.0229644775390625,"words":[]},{"start":1138.2,"end":1141.2,"text":" While the commission is actively considering industry requests","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10047901459854014,"compression_ratio":1.7396449704142012,"no_speech_prob":0.0229644775390625,"words":[]},{"start":1141.2,"end":1143.2,"text":" that could jump sorry innovation actively,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10047901459854014,"compression_ratio":1.7396449704142012,"no_speech_prob":0.0229644775390625,"words":[]},{"start":1143.2,"end":1146.2,"text":" we're also contemplating an innovation exemption","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10047901459854014,"compression_ratio":1.7396449704142012,"no_speech_prob":0.0229644775390625,"words":[]},{"start":1146.2,"end":1149.2,"text":" that would allow registrants and non-registrants","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10047901459854014,"compression_ratio":1.7396449704142012,"no_speech_prob":0.0229644775390625,"words":[]},{"start":1149.2,"end":1152.2,"text":" to quickly go to market with new businesses, business models,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12489652317880795,"compression_ratio":1.7174603174603174,"no_speech_prob":0.002017974853515625,"words":[]},{"start":1152.2,"end":1156.2,"text":" and services that do not neatly fit within our existing rules and regulations.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12489652317880795,"compression_ratio":1.7174603174603174,"no_speech_prob":0.002017974853515625,"words":[]},{"start":1156.2,"end":1157.2,"text":" What does this mean?","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12489652317880795,"compression_ratio":1.7174603174603174,"no_speech_prob":0.002017974853515625,"words":[]},{"start":1157.2,"end":1158.2,"text":" So this is huge.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12489652317880795,"compression_ratio":1.7174603174603174,"no_speech_prob":0.002017974853515625,"words":[]},{"start":1158.2,"end":1160.2,"text":" Yeah, this is like very pro-starred.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12489652317880795,"compression_ratio":1.7174603174603174,"no_speech_prob":0.002017974853515625,"words":[]},{"start":1160.2,"end":1162.2,"text":" I don't think anyone knows what it means.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12489652317880795,"compression_ratio":1.7174603174603174,"no_speech_prob":0.002017974853515625,"words":[]},{"start":1162.2,"end":1164.2,"text":" It sounds like some kind of sandbox.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12489652317880795,"compression_ratio":1.7174603174603174,"no_speech_prob":0.002017974853515625,"words":[]},{"start":1164.2,"end":1166.2,"text":" It sounds like you built a startup.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12489652317880795,"compression_ratio":1.7174603174603174,"no_speech_prob":0.002017974853515625,"words":[]},{"start":1166.2,"end":1170.2,"text":" So you remember Hester Purs had this proposal for like a sandbox","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12489652317880795,"compression_ratio":1.7174603174603174,"no_speech_prob":0.002017974853515625,"words":[]},{"start":1170.2,"end":1172.2,"text":" of sort of pre-decentralization.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12489652317880795,"compression_ratio":1.7174603174603174,"no_speech_prob":0.002017974853515625,"words":[]},{"start":1172.2,"end":1174.2,"text":" You're building a new crypto product.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12489652317880795,"compression_ratio":1.7174603174603174,"no_speech_prob":0.002017974853515625,"words":[]},{"start":1174.2,"end":1176.2,"text":" It's not progressive decentralization.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12489652317880795,"compression_ratio":1.7174603174603174,"no_speech_prob":0.002017974853515625,"words":[]},{"start":1176.2,"end":1177.2,"text":" They get it.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12489652317880795,"compression_ratio":1.7174603174603174,"no_speech_prob":0.002017974853515625,"words":[]},{"start":1177.2,"end":1178.2,"text":" They know these terms.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12489652317880795,"compression_ratio":1.7174603174603174,"no_speech_prob":0.002017974853515625,"words":[]},{"start":1178.2,"end":1179.2,"text":" It's not ready to be decentralized.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10463362068965518,"compression_ratio":1.8552188552188553,"no_speech_prob":0.048828125,"words":[]},{"start":1179.2,"end":1181.2,"text":" It doesn't make sense for the dev to really take a step back","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10463362068965518,"compression_ratio":1.8552188552188553,"no_speech_prob":0.048828125,"words":[]},{"start":1181.2,"end":1183.2,"text":" or to lose admin key control.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10463362068965518,"compression_ratio":1.8552188552188553,"no_speech_prob":0.048828125,"words":[]},{"start":1183.2,"end":1184.2,"text":" That's okay.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10463362068965518,"compression_ratio":1.8552188552188553,"no_speech_prob":0.048828125,"words":[]},{"start":1184.2,"end":1187.2,"text":" We're going to give you two years or three years","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10463362068965518,"compression_ratio":1.8552188552188553,"no_speech_prob":0.048828125,"words":[]},{"start":1187.2,"end":1190.2,"text":" to show that you can build this into decentralized product.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10463362068965518,"compression_ratio":1.8552188552188553,"no_speech_prob":0.048828125,"words":[]},{"start":1190.2,"end":1192.2,"text":" If you can't or if it doesn't make sense to make it decentralized,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10463362068965518,"compression_ratio":1.8552188552188553,"no_speech_prob":0.048828125,"words":[]},{"start":1192.2,"end":1195.2,"text":" there will be a regime under which you can get licensed","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10463362068965518,"compression_ratio":1.8552188552188553,"no_speech_prob":0.048828125,"words":[]},{"start":1195.2,"end":1197.2,"text":" or follow certain rules or make certain disclosures","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10463362068965518,"compression_ratio":1.8552188552188553,"no_speech_prob":0.048828125,"words":[]},{"start":1197.2,"end":1200.2,"text":" and operate in this semi-centralized fashion","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10463362068965518,"compression_ratio":1.8552188552188553,"no_speech_prob":0.048828125,"words":[]},{"start":1200.2,"end":1203.2,"text":" that is still permissionless and still open.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10463362068965518,"compression_ratio":1.8552188552188553,"no_speech_prob":0.048828125,"words":[]},{"start":1203.2,"end":1205.2,"text":" Or if you can be fully decentralized,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10463362068965518,"compression_ratio":1.8552188552188553,"no_speech_prob":0.048828125,"words":[]},{"start":1206.2,"end":1207.2,"text":" you don't have to do anything.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10582386363636363,"compression_ratio":1.7684887459807075,"no_speech_prob":0.01363372802734375,"words":[]},{"start":1207.2,"end":1209.2,"text":" You can be in this much, much lighter touch regime.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10582386363636363,"compression_ratio":1.7684887459807075,"no_speech_prob":0.01363372802734375,"words":[]},{"start":1209.2,"end":1211.2,"text":" But either path is open to you.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10582386363636363,"compression_ratio":1.7684887459807075,"no_speech_prob":0.01363372802734375,"words":[]},{"start":1211.2,"end":1214.2,"text":" But we're not going to make it such that you have to wait a year","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10582386363636363,"compression_ratio":1.7684887459807075,"no_speech_prob":0.01363372802734375,"words":[]},{"start":1214.2,"end":1216.2,"text":" and get licenses and pay millions of dollars","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10582386363636363,"compression_ratio":1.7684887459807075,"no_speech_prob":0.01363372802734375,"words":[]},{"start":1216.2,"end":1219.2,"text":" in order to go build a proof of concept as a crypto startup.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10582386363636363,"compression_ratio":1.7684887459807075,"no_speech_prob":0.01363372802734375,"words":[]},{"start":1219.2,"end":1221.2,"text":" The idea that you have to be pseudonymous","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10582386363636363,"compression_ratio":1.7684887459807075,"no_speech_prob":0.01363372802734375,"words":[]},{"start":1221.2,"end":1224.2,"text":" or you have to hide or you have to go to overseas","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10582386363636363,"compression_ratio":1.7684887459807075,"no_speech_prob":0.01363372802734375,"words":[]},{"start":1224.2,"end":1225.2,"text":" and block Americans.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10582386363636363,"compression_ratio":1.7684887459807075,"no_speech_prob":0.01363372802734375,"words":[]},{"start":1225.2,"end":1229.2,"text":" In order to go try out a new startup idea, that is over.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10582386363636363,"compression_ratio":1.7684887459807075,"no_speech_prob":0.01363372802734375,"words":[]},{"start":1229.2,"end":1231.2,"text":" That is what Paul Atkins is signaling here.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10582386363636363,"compression_ratio":1.7684887459807075,"no_speech_prob":0.01363372802734375,"words":[]},{"start":1231.2,"end":1234.2,"text":" So each of these five things that we went through,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10582386363636363,"compression_ratio":1.7684887459807075,"no_speech_prob":0.01363372802734375,"words":[]},{"start":1234.2,"end":1236.2,"text":" I'm going to call them the trees.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14177766393442623,"compression_ratio":1.685512367491166,"no_speech_prob":0.005138397216796875,"words":[]},{"start":1236.2,"end":1238.2,"text":" I want to zoom out and talk about the forest.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14177766393442623,"compression_ratio":1.685512367491166,"no_speech_prob":0.005138397216796875,"words":[]},{"start":1238.2,"end":1241.2,"text":" There are some early ideas in crypto.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14177766393442623,"compression_ratio":1.685512367491166,"no_speech_prob":0.005138397216796875,"words":[]},{"start":1241.2,"end":1243.2,"text":" Even on Bitcoin talk forums,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14177766393442623,"compression_ratio":1.685512367491166,"no_speech_prob":0.005138397216796875,"words":[]},{"start":1243.2,"end":1247.2,"text":" you can go and find ideas about tokenized securities,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14177766393442623,"compression_ratio":1.685512367491166,"no_speech_prob":0.005138397216796875,"words":[]},{"start":1247.2,"end":1250.2,"text":" securities becoming tokens on a blockchain one day.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14177766393442623,"compression_ratio":1.685512367491166,"no_speech_prob":0.005138397216796875,"words":[]},{"start":1250.2,"end":1253.2,"text":" Or blockchain using blockchain technology","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14177766393442623,"compression_ratio":1.685512367491166,"no_speech_prob":0.005138397216796875,"words":[]},{"start":1253.2,"end":1255.2,"text":" to settle securities transactions.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14177766393442623,"compression_ratio":1.685512367491166,"no_speech_prob":0.005138397216796875,"words":[]},{"start":1255.2,"end":1257.2,"text":" And that has always been the grand vision.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14177766393442623,"compression_ratio":1.685512367491166,"no_speech_prob":0.005138397216796875,"words":[]},{"start":1257.2,"end":1259.2,"text":" Shout out to Anthony Pompleyano in 2017","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14177766393442623,"compression_ratio":1.685512367491166,"no_speech_prob":0.005138397216796875,"words":[]},{"start":1259.2,"end":1261.2,"text":" talking about tokenizing everything.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14177766393442623,"compression_ratio":1.685512367491166,"no_speech_prob":0.005138397216796875,"words":[]},{"start":1261.2,"end":1262.2,"text":" This is that kind of stuff.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14177766393442623,"compression_ratio":1.685512367491166,"no_speech_prob":0.005138397216796875,"words":[]},{"start":1262.2,"end":1266.2,"text":" And the initial bit of the speech from Paul Atkins,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09114583333333333,"compression_ratio":1.652014652014652,"no_speech_prob":0.0714111328125,"words":[]},{"start":1266.2,"end":1268.2,"text":" he really talks about what happened","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09114583333333333,"compression_ratio":1.652014652014652,"no_speech_prob":0.0714111328125,"words":[]},{"start":1268.2,"end":1271.2,"text":" when the financial technology lagged the financial needs","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09114583333333333,"compression_ratio":1.652014652014652,"no_speech_prob":0.0714111328125,"words":[]},{"start":1271.2,"end":1275.2,"text":" of the industry in the pre-electronification era","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09114583333333333,"compression_ratio":1.652014652014652,"no_speech_prob":0.0714111328125,"words":[]},{"start":1275.2,"end":1277.2,"text":" of American stock market.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09114583333333333,"compression_ratio":1.652014652014652,"no_speech_prob":0.0714111328125,"words":[]},{"start":1277.2,"end":1280.2,"text":" What I'm seeing here is these five things, these five trees.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09114583333333333,"compression_ratio":1.652014652014652,"no_speech_prob":0.0714111328125,"words":[]},{"start":1280.2,"end":1282.2,"text":" When you zoom out and look at the forest,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09114583333333333,"compression_ratio":1.652014652014652,"no_speech_prob":0.0714111328125,"words":[]},{"start":1282.2,"end":1285.2,"text":" he's trying to push American capital markets on 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Would you agree?","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09114583333333333,"compression_ratio":1.652014652014652,"no_speech_prob":0.0714111328125,"words":[]},{"start":1287.2,"end":1289.2,"text":" I think that's absolutely right.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09114583333333333,"compression_ratio":1.652014652014652,"no_speech_prob":0.0714111328125,"words":[]},{"start":1289.2,"end":1293.2,"text":" He also makes very clear the break from his predecessor.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09250262605042017,"compression_ratio":1.8293650793650793,"no_speech_prob":0.1939697265625,"words":[]},{"start":1293.2,"end":1295.2,"text":" He says early on in the speech,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09250262605042017,"compression_ratio":1.8293650793650793,"no_speech_prob":0.1939697265625,"words":[]},{"start":1295.2,"end":1298.2,"text":" most tokens are not securities.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09250262605042017,"compression_ratio":1.8293650793650793,"no_speech_prob":0.1939697265625,"words":[]},{"start":1298.2,"end":1300.2,"text":" Basically saying that this idea","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09250262605042017,"compression_ratio":1.8293650793650793,"no_speech_prob":0.1939697265625,"words":[]},{"start":1300.2,"end":1302.2,"text":" that we all have to constantly live under fear","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09250262605042017,"compression_ratio":1.8293650793650793,"no_speech_prob":0.1939697265625,"words":[]},{"start":1302.2,"end":1305.2,"text":" and like recite the how we test under our breath,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09250262605042017,"compression_ratio":1.8293650793650793,"no_speech_prob":0.1939697265625,"words":[]},{"start":1305.2,"end":1306.2,"text":" that's over.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09250262605042017,"compression_ratio":1.8293650793650793,"no_speech_prob":0.1939697265625,"words":[]},{"start":1306.2,"end":1310.2,"text":" And so that means if he's saying that most tokens are not securities,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09250262605042017,"compression_ratio":1.8293650793650793,"no_speech_prob":0.1939697265625,"words":[]},{"start":1310.2,"end":1312.2,"text":" of course there are many tokens that have revenue.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09250262605042017,"compression_ratio":1.8293650793650793,"no_speech_prob":0.1939697265625,"words":[]},{"start":1312.2,"end":1314.2,"text":" There are many tokens that have earnings.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09250262605042017,"compression_ratio":1.8293650793650793,"no_speech_prob":0.1939697265625,"words":[]},{"start":1314.2,"end":1316.2,"text":" We have done so much as an industry","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09250262605042017,"compression_ratio":1.8293650793650793,"no_speech_prob":0.1939697265625,"words":[]},{"start":1317.2,"end":1320.2,"text":" to try to contort these protocols","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08929398148148149,"compression_ratio":1.930232558139535,"no_speech_prob":0.0367431640625,"words":[]},{"start":1320.2,"end":1323.2,"text":" and hide the ways in which they are economically valuable.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08929398148148149,"compression_ratio":1.930232558139535,"no_speech_prob":0.0367431640625,"words":[]},{"start":1323.2,"end":1326.2,"text":" And he's saying, look, you don't need to do that anymore.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08929398148148149,"compression_ratio":1.930232558139535,"no_speech_prob":0.0367431640625,"words":[]},{"start":1326.2,"end":1327.2,"text":" It's over.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08929398148148149,"compression_ratio":1.930232558139535,"no_speech_prob":0.0367431640625,"words":[]},{"start":1327.2,"end":1329.2,"text":" The idea that you need to hide the team,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08929398148148149,"compression_ratio":1.930232558139535,"no_speech_prob":0.0367431640625,"words":[]},{"start":1329.2,"end":1330.2,"text":" you need to hide the economics,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08929398148148149,"compression_ratio":1.930232558139535,"no_speech_prob":0.0367431640625,"words":[]},{"start":1330.2,"end":1334.2,"text":" you need to hide the way in which obviously things that go on chain","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08929398148148149,"compression_ratio":1.930232558139535,"no_speech_prob":0.0367431640625,"words":[]},{"start":1334.2,"end":1336.2,"text":" are valuable and value accruing.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08929398148148149,"compression_ratio":1.930232558139535,"no_speech_prob":0.0367431640625,"words":[]},{"start":1336.2,"end":1338.2,"text":" I think that to me is one of the biggest takeaways","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08929398148148149,"compression_ratio":1.930232558139535,"no_speech_prob":0.0367431640625,"words":[]},{"start":1338.2,"end":1341.2,"text":" that really changes the way you should be thinking about tokens,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08929398148148149,"compression_ratio":1.930232558139535,"no_speech_prob":0.0367431640625,"words":[]},{"start":1341.2,"end":1343.2,"text":" is that we don't need to play pretend anymore.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08929398148148149,"compression_ratio":1.930232558139535,"no_speech_prob":0.0367431640625,"words":[]},{"start":1344.2,"end":1348.2,"text":" Which is just, I think bullish for all of our sanity,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15005165289256198,"compression_ratio":1.6653386454183268,"no_speech_prob":0.048065185546875,"words":[]},{"start":1348.2,"end":1349.2,"text":" our piece of mind.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15005165289256198,"compression_ratio":1.6653386454183268,"no_speech_prob":0.048065185546875,"words":[]},{"start":1349.2,"end":1352.2,"text":" We can talk about these things as they are.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15005165289256198,"compression_ratio":1.6653386454183268,"no_speech_prob":0.048065185546875,"words":[]},{"start":1352.2,"end":1356.2,"text":" And like I said, not having to contort our ways","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15005165289256198,"compression_ratio":1.6653386454183268,"no_speech_prob":0.048065185546875,"words":[]},{"start":1356.2,"end":1358.2,"text":" of just operating as an industry","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15005165289256198,"compression_ratio":1.6653386454183268,"no_speech_prob":0.048065185546875,"words":[]},{"start":1358.2,"end":1360.2,"text":" so we can just be more transparent","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15005165289256198,"compression_ratio":1.6653386454183268,"no_speech_prob":0.048065185546875,"words":[]},{"start":1360.2,"end":1363.2,"text":" and maybe a little bit less confusing to investors","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15005165289256198,"compression_ratio":1.6653386454183268,"no_speech_prob":0.048065185546875,"words":[]},{"start":1363.2,"end":1364.2,"text":" and capital markets.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15005165289256198,"compression_ratio":1.6653386454183268,"no_speech_prob":0.048065185546875,"words":[]},{"start":1364.2,"end":1365.2,"text":" What happens next?","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15005165289256198,"compression_ratio":1.6653386454183268,"no_speech_prob":0.048065185546875,"words":[]},{"start":1365.2,"end":1366.2,"text":" So we got this speech.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15005165289256198,"compression_ratio":1.6653386454183268,"no_speech_prob":0.048065185546875,"words":[]},{"start":1366.2,"end":1368.2,"text":" So what is just a speech?","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15005165289256198,"compression_ratio":1.6653386454183268,"no_speech_prob":0.048065185546875,"words":[]},{"start":1368.2,"end":1369.2,"text":" What happens next?","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15005165289256198,"compression_ratio":1.6653386454183268,"no_speech_prob":0.048065185546875,"words":[]},{"start":1369.2,"end":1371.2,"text":" How does this become real?","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15005165289256198,"compression_ratio":1.6653386454183268,"no_speech_prob":0.048065185546875,"words":[]},{"start":1371.2,"end":1374.2,"text":" Well, so in order for this speech to become real,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10691652097902098,"compression_ratio":1.7940199335548173,"no_speech_prob":0.0196990966796875,"words":[]},{"start":1374.2,"end":1375.2,"text":" there's two things.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10691652097902098,"compression_ratio":1.7940199335548173,"no_speech_prob":0.0196990966796875,"words":[]},{"start":1375.2,"end":1377.2,"text":" Either one, we need rulemaking.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10691652097902098,"compression_ratio":1.7940199335548173,"no_speech_prob":0.0196990966796875,"words":[]},{"start":1377.2,"end":1379.2,"text":" And two, there's obviously enforcement","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10691652097902098,"compression_ratio":1.7940199335548173,"no_speech_prob":0.0196990966796875,"words":[]},{"start":1379.2,"end":1383.2,"text":" as the other avenue through which policy becomes instantiated.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10691652097902098,"compression_ratio":1.7940199335548173,"no_speech_prob":0.0196990966796875,"words":[]},{"start":1383.2,"end":1385.2,"text":" We've already seen them dropping a lot of cases.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10691652097902098,"compression_ratio":1.7940199335548173,"no_speech_prob":0.0196990966796875,"words":[]},{"start":1385.2,"end":1388.2,"text":" So most of the big cases that the industry want to drop","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10691652097902098,"compression_ratio":1.7940199335548173,"no_speech_prob":0.0196990966796875,"words":[]},{"start":1388.2,"end":1390.2,"text":" have already been dropped by the SEC.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10691652097902098,"compression_ratio":1.7940199335548173,"no_speech_prob":0.0196990966796875,"words":[]},{"start":1390.2,"end":1392.2,"text":" So there's nothing really more for them to do other than","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10691652097902098,"compression_ratio":1.7940199335548173,"no_speech_prob":0.0196990966796875,"words":[]},{"start":1392.2,"end":1394.2,"text":" through show, through enforcement actions,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10691652097902098,"compression_ratio":1.7940199335548173,"no_speech_prob":0.0196990966796875,"words":[]},{"start":1394.2,"end":1396.2,"text":" what they like and what they don't like.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10691652097902098,"compression_ratio":1.7940199335548173,"no_speech_prob":0.0196990966796875,"words":[]},{"start":1396.2,"end":1399.2,"text":" So we're going to see when they go after bad actors,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10691652097902098,"compression_ratio":1.7940199335548173,"no_speech_prob":0.0196990966796875,"words":[]},{"start":1400.2,"end":1402.2,"text":" that shows like, hey, these are the things","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13897058823529412,"compression_ratio":1.784375,"no_speech_prob":0.0166473388671875,"words":[]},{"start":1402.2,"end":1403.2,"text":" that we're still punishing.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13897058823529412,"compression_ratio":1.784375,"no_speech_prob":0.0166473388671875,"words":[]},{"start":1403.2,"end":1407.2,"text":" And when they have something that happens in broad daylight of,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13897058823529412,"compression_ratio":1.784375,"no_speech_prob":0.0166473388671875,"words":[]},{"start":1407.2,"end":1409.2,"text":" let's say hyper-liquid doing buybacks,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13897058823529412,"compression_ratio":1.784375,"no_speech_prob":0.0166473388671875,"words":[]},{"start":1409.2,"end":1411.2,"text":" if they don't go after hyper-liquid for doing buybacks,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13897058823529412,"compression_ratio":1.784375,"no_speech_prob":0.0166473388671875,"words":[]},{"start":1411.2,"end":1412.2,"text":" they're saying, it's fine.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13897058823529412,"compression_ratio":1.784375,"no_speech_prob":0.0166473388671875,"words":[]},{"start":1412.2,"end":1413.2,"text":" You can do buybacks.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13897058823529412,"compression_ratio":1.784375,"no_speech_prob":0.0166473388671875,"words":[]},{"start":1413.2,"end":1414.2,"text":" It's okay for a token to be valuable.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13897058823529412,"compression_ratio":1.784375,"no_speech_prob":0.0166473388671875,"words":[]},{"start":1414.2,"end":1417.2,"text":" That does not in and of itself hit all the prongs","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13897058823529412,"compression_ratio":1.784375,"no_speech_prob":0.0166473388671875,"words":[]},{"start":1417.2,"end":1419.2,"text":" of the how we test and thus make this thing","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13897058823529412,"compression_ratio":1.784375,"no_speech_prob":0.0166473388671875,"words":[]},{"start":1419.2,"end":1420.2,"text":" in a registered security.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13897058823529412,"compression_ratio":1.784375,"no_speech_prob":0.0166473388671875,"words":[]},{"start":1420.2,"end":1424.2,"text":" The other thing, of course, is that we need to see rulemaking.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13897058823529412,"compression_ratio":1.784375,"no_speech_prob":0.0166473388671875,"words":[]},{"start":1424.2,"end":1426.2,"text":" Rulemaking is not taken place yet.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13897058823529412,"compression_ratio":1.784375,"no_speech_prob":0.0166473388671875,"words":[]},{"start":1426.2,"end":1428.2,"text":" A lot of that rulemaking is informal.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13897058823529412,"compression_ratio":1.784375,"no_speech_prob":0.0166473388671875,"words":[]},{"start":1428.2,"end":1429.2,"text":" A lot of that is just vibes, right?","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13494318181818182,"compression_ratio":1.768421052631579,"no_speech_prob":0.0340576171875,"words":[]},{"start":1429.2,"end":1430.2,"text":" A speech is vibes.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13494318181818182,"compression_ratio":1.768421052631579,"no_speech_prob":0.0340576171875,"words":[]},{"start":1430.2,"end":1433.2,"text":" You see some SEC commissioner says something in a speech.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13494318181818182,"compression_ratio":1.768421052631579,"no_speech_prob":0.0340576171875,"words":[]},{"start":1433.2,"end":1435.2,"text":" You can say, like, look, he said this in a speech.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13494318181818182,"compression_ratio":1.768421052631579,"no_speech_prob":0.0340576171875,"words":[]},{"start":1435.2,"end":1438.2,"text":" Therefore, that's a kind of defense","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13494318181818182,"compression_ratio":1.768421052631579,"no_speech_prob":0.0340576171875,"words":[]},{"start":1438.2,"end":1441.2,"text":" if you actually are in a lawsuit with the SEC.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13494318181818182,"compression_ratio":1.768421052631579,"no_speech_prob":0.0340576171875,"words":[]},{"start":1441.2,"end":1443.2,"text":" But it is not actually a formal defense.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13494318181818182,"compression_ratio":1.768421052631579,"no_speech_prob":0.0340576171875,"words":[]},{"start":1443.2,"end":1446.2,"text":" A formal defense is there was a rule, the SEC made.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13494318181818182,"compression_ratio":1.768421052631579,"no_speech_prob":0.0340576171875,"words":[]},{"start":1446.2,"end":1447.2,"text":" It was a formal rule.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13494318181818182,"compression_ratio":1.768421052631579,"no_speech_prob":0.0340576171875,"words":[]},{"start":1447.2,"end":1448.2,"text":" Here's the rule.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13494318181818182,"compression_ratio":1.768421052631579,"no_speech_prob":0.0340576171875,"words":[]},{"start":1448.2,"end":1449.2,"text":" I follow the rule.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13494318181818182,"compression_ratio":1.768421052631579,"no_speech_prob":0.0340576171875,"words":[]},{"start":1449.2,"end":1452.2,"text":" So the SEC's job is to create those rules","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13494318181818182,"compression_ratio":1.768421052631579,"no_speech_prob":0.0340576171875,"words":[]},{"start":1452.2,"end":1454.2,"text":" and to, of course, get feedback from the industry","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13494318181818182,"compression_ratio":1.768421052631579,"no_speech_prob":0.0340576171875,"words":[]},{"start":1454.2,"end":1455.2,"text":" as they do so.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13494318181818182,"compression_ratio":1.768421052631579,"no_speech_prob":0.0340576171875,"words":[]},{"start":1455.2,"end":1458.2,"text":" And that's when we're going to have real clarity,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11448019801980198,"compression_ratio":1.591093117408907,"no_speech_prob":0.02716064453125,"words":[]},{"start":1458.2,"end":1461.2,"text":" short of the clarity act itself getting passed","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11448019801980198,"compression_ratio":1.591093117408907,"no_speech_prob":0.02716064453125,"words":[]},{"start":1461.2,"end":1465.2,"text":" and making these laws that the SEC then has to enforce.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11448019801980198,"compression_ratio":1.591093117408907,"no_speech_prob":0.02716064453125,"words":[]},{"start":1465.2,"end":1468.2,"text":" Do you worry that there's going to be some timidness","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11448019801980198,"compression_ratio":1.591093117408907,"no_speech_prob":0.02716064453125,"words":[]},{"start":1468.2,"end":1472.2,"text":" about people being bold and starting to actually live","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11448019801980198,"compression_ratio":1.591093117408907,"no_speech_prob":0.02716064453125,"words":[]},{"start":1472.2,"end":1476.2,"text":" by this divide because, you know, in three years","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11448019801980198,"compression_ratio":1.591093117408907,"no_speech_prob":0.02716064453125,"words":[]},{"start":1476.2,"end":1479.2,"text":" there could be, you know, a Elizabeth Warren-Coded","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11448019801980198,"compression_ratio":1.591093117408907,"no_speech_prob":0.02716064453125,"words":[]},{"start":1479.2,"end":1482.2,"text":" Democrat administration in power.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11448019801980198,"compression_ratio":1.591093117408907,"no_speech_prob":0.02716064453125,"words":[]},{"start":1482.2,"end":1485.2,"text":" And then all of a sudden, all of these vibes are just gone.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09033821202531646,"compression_ratio":1.7940298507462686,"no_speech_prob":0.022613525390625,"words":[]},{"start":1485.2,"end":1487.2,"text":" So maybe it's a little bit of this, like, you know,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09033821202531646,"compression_ratio":1.7940298507462686,"no_speech_prob":0.022613525390625,"words":[]},{"start":1487.2,"end":1490.2,"text":" companies are kind of like waiting for other companies to go first.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09033821202531646,"compression_ratio":1.7940298507462686,"no_speech_prob":0.022613525390625,"words":[]},{"start":1490.2,"end":1492.2,"text":" It would take a while for this to kind of become","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09033821202531646,"compression_ratio":1.7940298507462686,"no_speech_prob":0.022613525390625,"words":[]},{"start":1492.2,"end":1494.2,"text":" the rules of the road or, like, literally the rules of the road","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09033821202531646,"compression_ratio":1.7940298507462686,"no_speech_prob":0.022613525390625,"words":[]},{"start":1494.2,"end":1498.2,"text":" but just really instilled as a culture in the crypto industry.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09033821202531646,"compression_ratio":1.7940298507462686,"no_speech_prob":0.022613525390625,"words":[]},{"start":1498.2,"end":1500.2,"text":" I think it depends on the particulars.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09033821202531646,"compression_ratio":1.7940298507462686,"no_speech_prob":0.022613525390625,"words":[]},{"start":1500.2,"end":1503.2,"text":" So if you're talking about foundations, right?","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09033821202531646,"compression_ratio":1.7940298507462686,"no_speech_prob":0.022613525390625,"words":[]},{"start":1503.2,"end":1505.2,"text":" The reason why people do these overseas foundations","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09033821202531646,"compression_ratio":1.7940298507462686,"no_speech_prob":0.022613525390625,"words":[]},{"start":1505.2,"end":1507.2,"text":" is not just for the SEC.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09033821202531646,"compression_ratio":1.7940298507462686,"no_speech_prob":0.022613525390625,"words":[]},{"start":1507.2,"end":1509.2,"text":" There are a lot of agencies involved","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09033821202531646,"compression_ratio":1.7940298507462686,"no_speech_prob":0.022613525390625,"words":[]},{"start":1509.2,"end":1511.2,"text":" in the way that you think about your exposure","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09033821202531646,"compression_ratio":1.7940298507462686,"no_speech_prob":0.022613525390625,"words":[]},{"start":1511.2,"end":1513.2,"text":" if you're building up a crypto protocol.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10021357913669064,"compression_ratio":1.6690140845070423,"no_speech_prob":0.00047278404235839844,"words":[]},{"start":1513.2,"end":1515.2,"text":" And if not every, you know, if the IRS is not saying","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10021357913669064,"compression_ratio":1.6690140845070423,"no_speech_prob":0.00047278404235839844,"words":[]},{"start":1515.2,"end":1517.2,"text":" the same thing that the SEC is saying,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10021357913669064,"compression_ratio":1.6690140845070423,"no_speech_prob":0.00047278404235839844,"words":[]},{"start":1517.2,"end":1519.2,"text":" you might not be so quick to decide,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10021357913669064,"compression_ratio":1.6690140845070423,"no_speech_prob":0.00047278404235839844,"words":[]},{"start":1519.2,"end":1522.2,"text":" hey, I'm just going to launch a token out of a USC quip.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10021357913669064,"compression_ratio":1.6690140845070423,"no_speech_prob":0.00047278404235839844,"words":[]},{"start":1522.2,"end":1523.2,"text":" Right.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10021357913669064,"compression_ratio":1.6690140845070423,"no_speech_prob":0.00047278404235839844,"words":[]},{"start":1523.2,"end":1526.2,"text":" At the same time, the other thing I think","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10021357913669064,"compression_ratio":1.6690140845070423,"no_speech_prob":0.00047278404235839844,"words":[]},{"start":1526.2,"end":1528.2,"text":" you want to take into consideration","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10021357913669064,"compression_ratio":1.6690140845070423,"no_speech_prob":0.00047278404235839844,"words":[]},{"start":1528.2,"end":1531.2,"text":" is that crypto projects historically","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10021357913669064,"compression_ratio":1.6690140845070423,"no_speech_prob":0.00047278404235839844,"words":[]},{"start":1531.2,"end":1535.2,"text":" are very, very risk-taking in general.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10021357913669064,"compression_ratio":1.6690140845070423,"no_speech_prob":0.00047278404235839844,"words":[]},{"start":1535.2,"end":1537.2,"text":" So I think mostly the answer is yes they will.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10021357913669064,"compression_ratio":1.6690140845070423,"no_speech_prob":0.00047278404235839844,"words":[]},{"start":1537.2,"end":1539.2,"text":" For most of these things, if it's like,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10021357913669064,"compression_ratio":1.6690140845070423,"no_speech_prob":0.00047278404235839844,"words":[]},{"start":1539.2,"end":1541.2,"text":" hey, you can just start talking about your token","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1598360655737705,"compression_ratio":1.676056338028169,"no_speech_prob":0.0164031982421875,"words":[]},{"start":1541.2,"end":1542.2,"text":" and its cooling value.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1598360655737705,"compression_ratio":1.676056338028169,"no_speech_prob":0.0164031982421875,"words":[]},{"start":1542.2,"end":1544.2,"text":" Or you can start, you know,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1598360655737705,"compression_ratio":1.676056338028169,"no_speech_prob":0.0164031982421875,"words":[]},{"start":1544.2,"end":1548.2,"text":" just launching projects with less progressive decentralization","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1598360655737705,"compression_ratio":1.676056338028169,"no_speech_prob":0.0164031982421875,"words":[]},{"start":1548.2,"end":1550.2,"text":" and worrying not so much about whether or not","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1598360655737705,"compression_ratio":1.676056338028169,"no_speech_prob":0.0164031982421875,"words":[]},{"start":1550.2,"end":1553.2,"text":" you have admin key control in order to protect your users.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1598360655737705,"compression_ratio":1.676056338028169,"no_speech_prob":0.0164031982421875,"words":[]},{"start":1553.2,"end":1556.2,"text":" Yeah, people will start doing that right now.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1598360655737705,"compression_ratio":1.676056338028169,"no_speech_prob":0.0164031982421875,"words":[]},{"start":1556.2,"end":1558.2,"text":" People will start doing that yesterday.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1598360655737705,"compression_ratio":1.676056338028169,"no_speech_prob":0.0164031982421875,"words":[]},{"start":1558.2,"end":1560.2,"text":" So I think in general,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1598360655737705,"compression_ratio":1.676056338028169,"no_speech_prob":0.0164031982421875,"words":[]},{"start":1560.2,"end":1563.2,"text":" one of the big questions I've always asked myself","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1598360655737705,"compression_ratio":1.676056338028169,"no_speech_prob":0.0164031982421875,"words":[]},{"start":1563.2,"end":1567.2,"text":" is why is it that even before Pollackins came in,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1598360655737705,"compression_ratio":1.676056338028169,"no_speech_prob":0.0164031982421875,"words":[]},{"start":1567.2,"end":1568.2,"text":" Trump got elected.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1412037037037037,"compression_ratio":1.7314814814814814,"no_speech_prob":0.0209503173828125,"words":[]},{"start":1568.2,"end":1570.2,"text":" Even in the Gensers era,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1412037037037037,"compression_ratio":1.7314814814814814,"no_speech_prob":0.0209503173828125,"words":[]},{"start":1570.2,"end":1573.2,"text":" why were there so many crypto projects in New York,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1412037037037037,"compression_ratio":1.7314814814814814,"no_speech_prob":0.0209503173828125,"words":[]},{"start":1573.2,"end":1575.2,"text":" in America, right?","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1412037037037037,"compression_ratio":1.7314814814814814,"no_speech_prob":0.0209503173828125,"words":[]},{"start":1575.2,"end":1577.2,"text":" Why were they even here to get sued in the first place?","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1412037037037037,"compression_ratio":1.7314814814814814,"no_speech_prob":0.0209503173828125,"words":[]},{"start":1577.2,"end":1580.2,"text":" And the answer I think comes from a very deep part","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1412037037037037,"compression_ratio":1.7314814814814814,"no_speech_prob":0.0209503173828125,"words":[]},{"start":1580.2,"end":1582.2,"text":" of entrepreneurship and of crypto itself","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1412037037037037,"compression_ratio":1.7314814814814814,"no_speech_prob":0.0209503173828125,"words":[]},{"start":1582.2,"end":1585.2,"text":" is that entrepreneurs are just optimistic.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1412037037037037,"compression_ratio":1.7314814814814814,"no_speech_prob":0.0209503173828125,"words":[]},{"start":1585.2,"end":1587.2,"text":" They're kind of a rationally optimistic, right?","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1412037037037037,"compression_ratio":1.7314814814814814,"no_speech_prob":0.0209503173828125,"words":[]},{"start":1587.2,"end":1588.2,"text":" They just sort of think like, yeah,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1412037037037037,"compression_ratio":1.7314814814814814,"no_speech_prob":0.0209503173828125,"words":[]},{"start":1588.2,"end":1589.2,"text":" you know, Gensers going after all these guys.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1412037037037037,"compression_ratio":1.7314814814814814,"no_speech_prob":0.0209503173828125,"words":[]},{"start":1589.2,"end":1591.2,"text":" But when Gensers talks to me,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1412037037037037,"compression_ratio":1.7314814814814814,"no_speech_prob":0.0209503173828125,"words":[]},{"start":1591.2,"end":1592.2,"text":" he's going to realize that like,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1412037037037037,"compression_ratio":1.7314814814814814,"no_speech_prob":0.0209503173828125,"words":[]},{"start":1592.2,"end":1593.2,"text":" my thing is actually okay.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1412037037037037,"compression_ratio":1.7314814814814814,"no_speech_prob":0.0209503173828125,"words":[]},{"start":1593.2,"end":1595.2,"text":" And if Gensers never saw a project,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1412037037037037,"compression_ratio":1.7314814814814814,"no_speech_prob":0.0209503173828125,"words":[]},{"start":1595.2,"end":1596.2,"text":" he thought it was okay.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14834770114942528,"compression_ratio":1.761467889908257,"no_speech_prob":0.006290435791015625,"words":[]},{"start":1596.2,"end":1598.2,"text":" Everything he thought deserved a lawsuit.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14834770114942528,"compression_ratio":1.761467889908257,"no_speech_prob":0.006290435791015625,"words":[]},{"start":1598.2,"end":1600.2,"text":" But people's like, they sort of believe like,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14834770114942528,"compression_ratio":1.761467889908257,"no_speech_prob":0.006290435791015625,"words":[]},{"start":1600.2,"end":1601.2,"text":" okay, even if Gensers doesn't get it,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14834770114942528,"compression_ratio":1.761467889908257,"no_speech_prob":0.006290435791015625,"words":[]},{"start":1601.2,"end":1602.2,"text":" the judge will get it.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14834770114942528,"compression_ratio":1.761467889908257,"no_speech_prob":0.006290435791015625,"words":[]},{"start":1602.2,"end":1603.2,"text":" The judge is going to see that.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14834770114942528,"compression_ratio":1.761467889908257,"no_speech_prob":0.006290435791015625,"words":[]},{"start":1603.2,"end":1605.2,"text":" I'm in the right, I'm doing the right thing.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14834770114942528,"compression_ratio":1.761467889908257,"no_speech_prob":0.006290435791015625,"words":[]},{"start":1605.2,"end":1607.2,"text":" Somebody in New York will believe my case.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14834770114942528,"compression_ratio":1.761467889908257,"no_speech_prob":0.006290435791015625,"words":[]},{"start":1607.2,"end":1609.2,"text":" Exactly, exactly.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14834770114942528,"compression_ratio":1.761467889908257,"no_speech_prob":0.006290435791015625,"words":[]},{"start":1609.2,"end":1610.2,"text":" So I actually think that, yeah,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14834770114942528,"compression_ratio":1.761467889908257,"no_speech_prob":0.006290435791015625,"words":[]},{"start":1610.2,"end":1612.2,"text":" entrepreneurs were in a dime.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14834770114942528,"compression_ratio":1.761467889908257,"no_speech_prob":0.006290435791015625,"words":[]},{"start":1612.2,"end":1614.2,"text":" They were going to start just taking a lot more risk","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14834770114942528,"compression_ratio":1.761467889908257,"no_speech_prob":0.006290435791015625,"words":[]},{"start":1614.2,"end":1616.2,"text":" and being a lot more aggressive on seeing this be.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14834770114942528,"compression_ratio":1.761467889908257,"no_speech_prob":0.006290435791015625,"words":[]},{"start":1616.2,"end":1618.2,"text":" Hey, I'm kind of into it.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14834770114942528,"compression_ratio":1.761467889908257,"no_speech_prob":0.006290435791015625,"words":[]},{"start":1618.2,"end":1621.2,"text":" I've got another bankless take to get you to check,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14834770114942528,"compression_ratio":1.761467889908257,"no_speech_prob":0.006290435791015625,"words":[]},{"start":1621.2,"end":1623.2,"text":" check me on his team.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14834770114942528,"compression_ratio":1.761467889908257,"no_speech_prob":0.006290435791015625,"words":[]},{"start":1623.2,"end":1625.2,"text":" So again, another take brought to you by bankless.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15647977941176472,"compression_ratio":1.6325878594249201,"no_speech_prob":0.01690673828125,"words":[]},{"start":1625.2,"end":1628.2,"text":" All of this stuff that Paul Atkins has talked about","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15647977941176472,"compression_ratio":1.6325878594249201,"no_speech_prob":0.01690673828125,"words":[]},{"start":1628.2,"end":1631.2,"text":" is uniquely bullish Ethereum.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15647977941176472,"compression_ratio":1.6325878594249201,"no_speech_prob":0.01690673828125,"words":[]},{"start":1631.2,"end":1634.2,"text":" Because of all the things that we've seen over the last six months,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15647977941176472,"compression_ratio":1.6325878594249201,"no_speech_prob":0.01690673828125,"words":[]},{"start":1634.2,"end":1636.2,"text":" again, like I'll make some claims here.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15647977941176472,"compression_ratio":1.6325878594249201,"no_speech_prob":0.01690673828125,"words":[]},{"start":1636.2,"end":1638.2,"text":" The Circle IPO Ethereum coded.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15647977941176472,"compression_ratio":1.6325878594249201,"no_speech_prob":0.01690673828125,"words":[]},{"start":1638.2,"end":1640.2,"text":" Because Ethereum is a stable coin chain.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15647977941176472,"compression_ratio":1.6325878594249201,"no_speech_prob":0.01690673828125,"words":[]},{"start":1640.2,"end":1642.2,"text":" This is Tom Lee's line.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15647977941176472,"compression_ratio":1.6325878594249201,"no_speech_prob":0.01690673828125,"words":[]},{"start":1642.2,"end":1644.2,"text":" Circle got born on Ethereum.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15647977941176472,"compression_ratio":1.6325878594249201,"no_speech_prob":0.01690673828125,"words":[]},{"start":1644.2,"end":1646.2,"text":" Coinbase, the world's largest crypto company","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15647977941176472,"compression_ratio":1.6325878594249201,"no_speech_prob":0.01690673828125,"words":[]},{"start":1646.2,"end":1648.2,"text":" that's public in the American stock market.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15647977941176472,"compression_ratio":1.6325878594249201,"no_speech_prob":0.01690673828125,"words":[]},{"start":1648.2,"end":1649.2,"text":" Really Ethereum coded.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15647977941176472,"compression_ratio":1.6325878594249201,"no_speech_prob":0.01690673828125,"words":[]},{"start":1649.2,"end":1651.2,"text":" Like has that circle partnership.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15647977941176472,"compression_ratio":1.6325878594249201,"no_speech_prob":0.01690673828125,"words":[]},{"start":1651.2,"end":1652.2,"text":" Has a base layer too.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12001811594202899,"compression_ratio":1.726072607260726,"no_speech_prob":0.03729248046875,"words":[]},{"start":1652.2,"end":1654.2,"text":" Robin Hood launching its Ethereum layer too.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12001811594202899,"compression_ratio":1.726072607260726,"no_speech_prob":0.03729248046875,"words":[]},{"start":1654.2,"end":1656.2,"text":" Just explicitly Ethereum coded.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12001811594202899,"compression_ratio":1.726072607260726,"no_speech_prob":0.03729248046875,"words":[]},{"start":1656.2,"end":1659.2,"text":" And so when Paul Atkins is like, yes,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12001811594202899,"compression_ratio":1.726072607260726,"no_speech_prob":0.03729248046875,"words":[]},{"start":1659.2,"end":1662.2,"text":" without saying any particular name of any blockchain in particular,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12001811594202899,"compression_ratio":1.726072607260726,"no_speech_prob":0.03729248046875,"words":[]},{"start":1662.2,"end":1664.2,"text":" we're going to move Americans financial markets","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12001811594202899,"compression_ratio":1.726072607260726,"no_speech_prob":0.03729248046875,"words":[]},{"start":1664.2,"end":1666.2,"text":" from being off chain to being on chain.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12001811594202899,"compression_ratio":1.726072607260726,"no_speech_prob":0.03729248046875,"words":[]},{"start":1666.2,"end":1668.2,"text":" Yeah, like which ecosystem,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12001811594202899,"compression_ratio":1.726072607260726,"no_speech_prob":0.03729248046875,"words":[]},{"start":1668.2,"end":1671.2,"text":" which blockchain ecosystem is going to be the main beneficiary","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12001811594202899,"compression_ratio":1.726072607260726,"no_speech_prob":0.03729248046875,"words":[]},{"start":1671.2,"end":1672.2,"text":" of this speech?","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12001811594202899,"compression_ratio":1.726072607260726,"no_speech_prob":0.03729248046875,"words":[]},{"start":1672.2,"end":1674.2,"text":" I claim its Ethereum.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12001811594202899,"compression_ratio":1.726072607260726,"no_speech_prob":0.03729248046875,"words":[]},{"start":1674.2,"end":1675.2,"text":" Do you believe with my claim?","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12001811594202899,"compression_ratio":1.726072607260726,"no_speech_prob":0.03729248046875,"words":[]},{"start":1675.2,"end":1677.2,"text":" Would you like to check me on that claim?","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12001811594202899,"compression_ratio":1.726072607260726,"no_speech_prob":0.03729248046875,"words":[]},{"start":1677.2,"end":1678.2,"text":" What do you think about that?","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12001811594202899,"compression_ratio":1.726072607260726,"no_speech_prob":0.03729248046875,"words":[]},{"start":1678.2,"end":1681.2,"text":" You're not wrong in the sense that like,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1537782485875706,"compression_ratio":1.9013157894736843,"no_speech_prob":0.1683349609375,"words":[]},{"start":1681.2,"end":1684.2,"text":" Wall Street mostly thinks of Ethereum as the chain","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1537782485875706,"compression_ratio":1.9013157894736843,"no_speech_prob":0.1683349609375,"words":[]},{"start":1684.2,"end":1686.2,"text":" where they're going to do their shit.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1537782485875706,"compression_ratio":1.9013157894736843,"no_speech_prob":0.1683349609375,"words":[]},{"start":1686.2,"end":1688.2,"text":" At the same time, I'm remembering,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1537782485875706,"compression_ratio":1.9013157894736843,"no_speech_prob":0.1683349609375,"words":[]},{"start":1688.2,"end":1689.2,"text":" as you're telling me this,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1537782485875706,"compression_ratio":1.9013157894736843,"no_speech_prob":0.1683349609375,"words":[]},{"start":1689.2,"end":1690.2,"text":" the debate that we had in New York.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1537782485875706,"compression_ratio":1.9013157894736843,"no_speech_prob":0.1683349609375,"words":[]},{"start":1690.2,"end":1691.2,"text":" Yeah.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1537782485875706,"compression_ratio":1.9013157894736843,"no_speech_prob":0.1683349609375,"words":[]},{"start":1691.2,"end":1693.2,"text":" I think you took the anti-theorem position.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1537782485875706,"compression_ratio":1.9013157894736843,"no_speech_prob":0.1683349609375,"words":[]},{"start":1693.2,"end":1694.2,"text":" I took the pro-theorem position.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1537782485875706,"compression_ratio":1.9013157894736843,"no_speech_prob":0.1683349609375,"words":[]},{"start":1694.2,"end":1695.2,"text":" For the sake of the exercise.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1537782485875706,"compression_ratio":1.9013157894736843,"no_speech_prob":0.1683349609375,"words":[]},{"start":1695.2,"end":1696.2,"text":" For the sake of the exercise.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1537782485875706,"compression_ratio":1.9013157894736843,"no_speech_prob":0.1683349609375,"words":[]},{"start":1696.2,"end":1697.2,"text":" Yeah, yeah, yeah.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1537782485875706,"compression_ratio":1.9013157894736843,"no_speech_prob":0.1683349609375,"words":[]},{"start":1697.2,"end":1698.2,"text":" Of course, for the sake of the 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that was when I was saying","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1537782485875706,"compression_ratio":1.9013157894736843,"no_speech_prob":0.1683349609375,"words":[]},{"start":1707.2,"end":1709.2,"text":" I thought Ethereum had bottomed,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.16302447552447552,"compression_ratio":1.8937728937728937,"no_speech_prob":0.00475311279296875,"words":[]},{"start":1709.2,"end":1711.2,"text":" and that the turnover in the Ethereum,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.16302447552447552,"compression_ratio":1.8937728937728937,"no_speech_prob":0.00475311279296875,"words":[]},{"start":1711.2,"end":1713.2,"text":" I think the EF had just turned over.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.16302447552447552,"compression_ratio":1.8937728937728937,"no_speech_prob":0.00475311279296875,"words":[]},{"start":1713.2,"end":1718.2,"text":" And my view is that this is the beginning of the 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a wealth effective of,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.20430107526881722,"compression_ratio":1.8025078369905956,"no_speech_prob":0.09259033203125,"words":[]},{"start":2135.2,"end":2136.2,"text":" maybe not wealth effect,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.20430107526881722,"compression_ratio":1.8025078369905956,"no_speech_prob":0.09259033203125,"words":[]},{"start":2136.2,"end":2137.2,"text":" but there's going to be an","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.20430107526881722,"compression_ratio":1.8025078369905956,"no_speech_prob":0.09259033203125,"words":[]},{"start":2137.2,"end":2138.2,"text":" influx of capital into DeFi","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.20430107526881722,"compression_ratio":1.8025078369905956,"no_speech_prob":0.09259033203125,"words":[]},{"start":2138.2,"end":2140.2,"text":" and DeFi TVLs are going to 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one.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13125,"compression_ratio":1.709090909090909,"no_speech_prob":0.0306549072265625,"words":[]},{"start":2189.2000000000003,"end":2191.2000000000003,"text":" SEC permits in-kind creation","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11603180473372782,"compression_ratio":1.6947040498442367,"no_speech_prob":0.0206451416015625,"words":[]},{"start":2191.2000000000003,"end":2193.2000000000003,"text":" and redemptions for crypto ETPs.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11603180473372782,"compression_ratio":1.6947040498442367,"no_speech_prob":0.0206451416015625,"words":[]},{"start":2193.2000000000003,"end":2194.2000000000003,"text":" This is a technical thing.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11603180473372782,"compression_ratio":1.6947040498442367,"no_speech_prob":0.0206451416015625,"words":[]},{"start":2194.2000000000003,"end":2195.2000000000003,"text":" I think all of this 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level.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11603180473372782,"compression_ratio":1.6947040498442367,"no_speech_prob":0.0206451416015625,"words":[]},{"start":2204.2000000000003,"end":2205.2000000000003,"text":" I don't know if you can explain this","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11603180473372782,"compression_ratio":1.6947040498442367,"no_speech_prob":0.0206451416015625,"words":[]},{"start":2205.2000000000003,"end":2206.2000000000003,"text":" better than I can.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11603180473372782,"compression_ratio":1.6947040498442367,"no_speech_prob":0.0206451416015625,"words":[]},{"start":2206.2000000000003,"end":2207.2000000000003,"text":" But this is something that people","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11603180473372782,"compression_ratio":1.6947040498442367,"no_speech_prob":0.0206451416015625,"words":[]},{"start":2207.2000000000003,"end":2208.2000000000003,"text":" are 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right?","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12155877976190477,"compression_ratio":1.7854671280276817,"no_speech_prob":0.1126708984375,"words":[]},{"start":2281.2000000000003,"end":2282.2000000000003,"text":" So if you have a Bitcoin ETF,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12155877976190477,"compression_ratio":1.7854671280276817,"no_speech_prob":0.1126708984375,"words":[]},{"start":2282.2000000000003,"end":2284.2000000000003,"text":" it's just Bitcoin in a basket.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12155877976190477,"compression_ratio":1.7854671280276817,"no_speech_prob":0.1126708984375,"words":[]},{"start":2284.2000000000003,"end":2286.2000000000003,"text":" Why can't I put another Bitcoin","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12155877976190477,"compression_ratio":1.7854671280276817,"no_speech_prob":0.1126708984375,"words":[]},{"start":2286.2000000000003,"end":2287.2000000000003,"text":" in the basket and 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this.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.18042763157894737,"compression_ratio":1.6582278481012658,"no_speech_prob":0.003124237060546875,"words":[]},{"start":2303.2000000000003,"end":2305.2000000000003,"text":" SEC, the previous SEC was crazy.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.18042763157894737,"compression_ratio":1.6582278481012658,"no_speech_prob":0.003124237060546875,"words":[]},{"start":2305.2000000000003,"end":2307.2000000000003,"text":" That's what this is.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.18042763157894737,"compression_ratio":1.6582278481012658,"no_speech_prob":0.003124237060546875,"words":[]},{"start":2307.2000000000003,"end":2308.2000000000003,"text":" All right.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.18042763157894737,"compression_ratio":1.6582278481012658,"no_speech_prob":0.003124237060546875,"words":[]},{"start":2308.2000000000003,"end":2309.2000000000003,"text":" Let's get into some Zora pump 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guy","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.18042763157894737,"compression_ratio":1.6582278481012658,"no_speech_prob":0.003124237060546875,"words":[]},{"start":2320.2000000000003,"end":2321.2000000000003,"text":" than I am a Zora.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.18042763157894737,"compression_ratio":1.6582278481012658,"no_speech_prob":0.003124237060546875,"words":[]},{"start":2321.2000000000003,"end":2322.2000000000003,"text":" More of an ETP guy.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.18042763157894737,"compression_ratio":1.6582278481012658,"no_speech_prob":0.003124237060546875,"words":[]},{"start":2322.2000000000003,"end":2323.2000000000003,"text":" All right, so let me,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.18042763157894737,"compression_ratio":1.6582278481012658,"no_speech_prob":0.003124237060546875,"words":[]},{"start":2323.2000000000003,"end":2324.2000000000003,"text":" let me fill you 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millennials.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13191731770833334,"compression_ratio":1.7901639344262295,"no_speech_prob":0.004070281982421875,"words":[]},{"start":2752.2000000000003,"end":2753.2000000000003,"text":" Where it's like,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13191731770833334,"compression_ratio":1.7901639344262295,"no_speech_prob":0.004070281982421875,"words":[]},{"start":2753.2000000000003,"end":2754.2000000000003,"text":" okay, if you're Gen Z","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13191731770833334,"compression_ratio":1.7901639344262295,"no_speech_prob":0.004070281982421875,"words":[]},{"start":2754.2000000000003,"end":2755.2000000000003,"text":" and you're like on four-channel day,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13191731770833334,"compression_ratio":1.7901639344262295,"no_speech_prob":0.004070281982421875,"words":[]},{"start":2755.2000000000003,"end":2756.2000000000003,"text":" yeah, exactly.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13191731770833334,"compression_ratio":1.7901639344262295,"no_speech_prob":0.004070281982421875,"words":[]},{"start":2756.2000000000003,"end":2757.2000000000003,"text":" It's like, if you're,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13191731770833334,"compression_ratio":1.7901639344262295,"no_speech_prob":0.004070281982421875,"words":[]},{"start":2757.2000000000003,"end":2758.2000000000003,"text":" if you're Gen Z,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13191731770833334,"compression_ratio":1.7901639344262295,"no_speech_prob":0.004070281982421875,"words":[]},{"start":2758.2000000000003,"end":2759.2000000000003,"text":" you're on four-channel day,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13191731770833334,"compression_ratio":1.7901639344262295,"no_speech_prob":0.004070281982421875,"words":[]},{"start":2759.2000000000003,"end":2760.2000000000003,"text":" you're just kind of messed up in the head,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13191731770833334,"compression_ratio":1.7901639344262295,"no_speech_prob":0.004070281982421875,"words":[]},{"start":2760.2000000000003,"end":2761.2000000000003,"text":" then yeah, okay,","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13191731770833334,"compression_ratio":1.7901639344262295,"no_speech_prob":0.004070281982421875,"words":[]},{"start":2761.2000000000003,"end":2762.2000000000003,"text":" so that's one thing.","temperature":0.8,"avg_logprob":-0.38273646657059834,"compression_ratio":1.929054054054054,"no_speech_prob":0.054168701171875,"words":[]},{"start":2762.2000000000003,"end":2763.2000000000003,"text":" But if you're like,","temperature":0.8,"avg_logprob":-0.38273646657059834,"compression_ratio":1.929054054054054,"no_speech_prob":0.054168701171875,"words":[]},{"start":2763.2000000000003,"end":2764.2000000000003,"text":" oh, I kind of like Instagram","temperature":0.8,"avg_logprob":-0.38273646657059834,"compression_ratio":1.929054054054054,"no_speech_prob":0.054168701171875,"words":[]},{"start":2764.2000000000003,"end":2765.2000000000003,"text":" and I like my, you know,","temperature":0.8,"avg_logprob":-0.38273646657059834,"compression_ratio":1.929054054054054,"no_speech_prob":0.054168701171875,"words":[]},{"start":2765.2000000000003,"end":2766.2000000000003,"text":" lattes or whatever","temperature":0.8,"avg_logprob":-0.38273646657059834,"compression_ratio":1.929054054054054,"no_speech_prob":0.054168701171875,"words":[]},{"start":2766.2000000000003,"end":2767.2000000000003,"text":" and I like nice, clean design","temperature":0.8,"avg_logprob":-0.38273646657059834,"compression_ratio":1.929054054054054,"no_speech_prob":0.054168701171875,"words":[]},{"start":2767.2000000000003,"end":2768.2000000000003,"text":" and it sort of silken","temperature":0.8,"avg_logprob":-0.38273646657059834,"compression_ratio":1.929054054054054,"no_speech_prob":0.054168701171875,"words":[]},{"start":2768.2000000000003,"end":2769.2000000000003,"text":" value approach.","temperature":0.8,"avg_logprob":-0.38273646657059834,"compression_ratio":1.929054054054054,"no_speech_prob":0.054168701171875,"words":[]},{"start":2769.2000000000003,"end":2770.2000000000003,"text":" But fundamentally,","temperature":0.8,"avg_logprob":-0.38273646657059834,"compression_ratio":1.929054054054054,"no_speech_prob":0.054168701171875,"words":[]},{"start":2770.2000000000003,"end":2771.2000000000003,"text":" to your point,","temperature":0.8,"avg_logprob":-0.38273646657059834,"compression_ratio":1.929054054054054,"no_speech_prob":0.054168701171875,"words":[]},{"start":2771.2000000000003,"end":2773.2000000000003,"text":" it's pictures on a bohnikerv.","temperature":0.8,"avg_logprob":-0.38273646657059834,"compression_ratio":1.929054054054054,"no_speech_prob":0.054168701171875,"words":[]},{"start":2773.2000000000003,"end":2774.2000000000003,"text":" And pictures on a bohnikerv","temperature":0.8,"avg_logprob":-0.38273646657059834,"compression_ratio":1.929054054054054,"no_speech_prob":0.054168701171875,"words":[]},{"start":2774.2000000000003,"end":2775.2000000000003,"text":" it's like, okay, you know,","temperature":0.8,"avg_logprob":-0.38273646657059834,"compression_ratio":1.929054054054054,"no_speech_prob":0.054168701171875,"words":[]},{"start":2775.2000000000003,"end":2776.2000000000003,"text":" that was the same thing","temperature":0.8,"avg_logprob":-0.38273646657059834,"compression_ratio":1.929054054054054,"no_speech_prob":0.054168701171875,"words":[]},{"start":2776.2000000000003,"end":2777.2000000000003,"text":" for Anteque Wars,","temperature":0.8,"avg_logprob":-0.38273646657059834,"compression_ratio":1.929054054054054,"no_speech_prob":0.054168701171875,"words":[]},{"start":2777.2000000000003,"end":2778.2000000000003,"text":" was it considered pictures on a bohnikerv","temperature":0.8,"avg_logprob":-0.38273646657059834,"compression_ratio":1.929054054054054,"no_speech_prob":0.054168701171875,"words":[]},{"start":2778.2000000000003,"end":2779.2000000000003,"text":" it was pictures of the","temperature":0.8,"avg_logprob":-0.38273646657059834,"compression_ratio":1.929054054054054,"no_speech_prob":0.054168701171875,"words":[]},{"start":2779.2000000000003,"end":2780.2000000000003,"text":" PFP on a bohnikerv","temperature":0.8,"avg_logprob":-0.38273646657059834,"compression_ratio":1.929054054054054,"no_speech_prob":0.054168701171875,"words":[]},{"start":2780.2000000000003,"end":2782.2000000000003,"text":" and at the end of the day,","temperature":0.8,"avg_logprob":-0.38273646657059834,"compression_ratio":1.929054054054054,"no_speech_prob":0.054168701171875,"words":[]},{"start":2782.2000000000003,"end":2783.2000000000003,"text":" it's the same game","temperature":0.8,"avg_logprob":-0.38273646657059834,"compression_ratio":1.929054054054054,"no_speech_prob":0.054168701171875,"words":[]},{"start":2783.2000000000003,"end":2784.2000000000003,"text":" with a difference again.","temperature":0.8,"avg_logprob":-0.38273646657059834,"compression_ratio":1.929054054054054,"no_speech_prob":0.054168701171875,"words":[]},{"start":2784.2000000000003,"end":2785.2000000000003,"text":" And that's what,","temperature":0.8,"avg_logprob":-0.38273646657059834,"compression_ratio":1.929054054054054,"no_speech_prob":0.054168701171875,"words":[]},{"start":2785.2000000000003,"end":2787.2000000000003,"text":" you know, when you go into","temperature":0.8,"avg_logprob":-0.38273646657059834,"compression_ratio":1.929054054054054,"no_speech_prob":0.054168701171875,"words":[]},{"start":2787.2000000000003,"end":2788.2000000000003,"text":" a casino,","temperature":0.8,"avg_logprob":-0.38273646657059834,"compression_ratio":1.929054054054054,"no_speech_prob":0.054168701171875,"words":[]},{"start":2788.2000000000003,"end":2789.2000000000003,"text":" and you look at the","temperature":0.8,"avg_logprob":-0.38273646657059834,"compression_ratio":1.929054054054054,"no_speech_prob":0.054168701171875,"words":[]},{"start":2789.2000000000003,"end":2792.9600000000005,"text":" what you will see is that they're all basically the same game with a different skin every","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2046875,"compression_ratio":1.763157894736842,"no_speech_prob":0.086181640625,"words":[]},{"start":2792.9600000000005,"end":2797.36,"text":" slot machine like there's an indiana jones one and there's a terminator one and there's a ninja","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2046875,"compression_ratio":1.763157894736842,"no_speech_prob":0.086181640625,"words":[]},{"start":2797.36,"end":2800.8,"text":" turtles one and it doesn't really matter which one you play they're all the same damn thing.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2046875,"compression_ratio":1.763157894736842,"no_speech_prob":0.086181640625,"words":[]},{"start":2802.1600000000003,"end":2808.7200000000003,"text":" I think the big question though is pump raised like 800 million million dollars to go make","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2046875,"compression_ratio":1.763157894736842,"no_speech_prob":0.086181640625,"words":[]},{"start":2808.7200000000003,"end":2815.0400000000004,"text":" a twitch competitor and Zora and Jesse from base are really trying to take Zora mainstream and have","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2046875,"compression_ratio":1.763157894736842,"no_speech_prob":0.086181640625,"words":[]},{"start":2815.04,"end":2821.52,"text":" the base app which hooked into Zora to be a instagram competitor and so well yes we can be kind of like","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.141551906779661,"compression_ratio":1.7941176470588236,"no_speech_prob":0.01242828369140625,"words":[]},{"start":2821.52,"end":2825.84,"text":" I don't know if nihilist is right word we can be reductionist and say oh it's just a picture","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.141551906779661,"compression_ratio":1.7941176470588236,"no_speech_prob":0.01242828369140625,"words":[]},{"start":2825.84,"end":2830.56,"text":" on a bonding curve so therefore it's the same thing we don't really need too large too well well","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.141551906779661,"compression_ratio":1.7941176470588236,"no_speech_prob":0.01242828369140625,"words":[]},{"start":2830.56,"end":2835.52,"text":" they're both both people are trying to make these things mainstream and make them and break out of","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.141551906779661,"compression_ratio":1.7941176470588236,"no_speech_prob":0.01242828369140625,"words":[]},{"start":2835.52,"end":2843.6,"text":" crypto degen trenches and make them be a part of like regular mainstream culture and so I think","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.141551906779661,"compression_ratio":1.7941176470588236,"no_speech_prob":0.01242828369140625,"words":[]},{"start":2843.92,"end":2849.68,"text":" it does kind of matter how the path dependency does matter like is this a pump fund live stream","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11240898058252427,"compression_ratio":1.8192307692307692,"no_speech_prob":0.0017824172973632812,"words":[]},{"start":2849.68,"end":2855.2,"text":" platform that is taking like you know streamers trying to pump their their coin mainstream or is it","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11240898058252427,"compression_ratio":1.8192307692307692,"no_speech_prob":0.0017824172973632812,"words":[]},{"start":2855.8399999999997,"end":2861.2,"text":" more of a instagram look alike for creators who just want to get paid for creating and they","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11240898058252427,"compression_ratio":1.8192307692307692,"no_speech_prob":0.0017824172973632812,"words":[]},{"start":2861.2,"end":2866.16,"text":" don't paid on instagram to create I think like whether or not mainstream society is interested in","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11240898058252427,"compression_ratio":1.8192307692307692,"no_speech_prob":0.0017824172973632812,"words":[]},{"start":2866.16,"end":2870.56,"text":" adopting this behavior at all is the ultimate question that we do not know is answered.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11240898058252427,"compression_ratio":1.8192307692307692,"no_speech_prob":0.0017824172973632812,"words":[]},{"start":2871.52,"end":2877.36,"text":" Though I'm open to that possibility it remains to be proven that the form factor is the dominant","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13891173245614036,"compression_ratio":1.908,"no_speech_prob":0.01342010498046875,"words":[]},{"start":2877.36,"end":2883.2,"text":" thing that's going to create a totally different unlock or behavior pattern so far as far as I","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13891173245614036,"compression_ratio":1.908,"no_speech_prob":0.01342010498046875,"words":[]},{"start":2883.2,"end":2889.7599999999998,"text":" can see and I'm not a user of Zora or pumped out fun as far as I can see the games look pretty","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13891173245614036,"compression_ratio":1.908,"no_speech_prob":0.01342010498046875,"words":[]},{"start":2889.7599999999998,"end":2893.2,"text":" similar to me the way in which people are playing them the way in which people are talking about","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13891173245614036,"compression_ratio":1.908,"no_speech_prob":0.01342010498046875,"words":[]},{"start":2893.2,"end":2897.04,"text":" them like not the way in which the creators are talking about them but if you listen to a lot","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13891173245614036,"compression_ratio":1.908,"no_speech_prob":0.01342010498046875,"words":[]},{"start":2897.12,"end":2901.36,"text":" versus listening to Jesse or listen to Jacob the way they talk about the products is very different","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1750886524822695,"compression_ratio":1.8019169329073483,"no_speech_prob":0.01342010498046875,"words":[]},{"start":2901.36,"end":2907.04,"text":" right but what's the way their users talk about their products. They seem pretty similar to me","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1750886524822695,"compression_ratio":1.8019169329073483,"no_speech_prob":0.01342010498046875,"words":[]},{"start":2907.04,"end":2911.92,"text":" but you tell me. No no I think that's right as I was going to close out the section I would say","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1750886524822695,"compression_ratio":1.8019169329073483,"no_speech_prob":0.01342010498046875,"words":[]},{"start":2911.92,"end":2917.04,"text":" Hissy if you were to ever get on to Zora I would probably buy your your coin under a particular","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1750886524822695,"compression_ratio":1.8019169329073483,"no_speech_prob":0.01342010498046875,"words":[]},{"start":2917.04,"end":2920.32,"text":" price. That's a good reason for me not to yeah it's a good reason not to get on Zora.","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1750886524822695,"compression_ratio":1.8019169329073483,"no_speech_prob":0.01342010498046875,"words":[]},{"start":2921.84,"end":2926.48,"text":" All right well we'll wrap things up with a more serious subject as we're kind of alluded to","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1750886524822695,"compression_ratio":1.8019169329073483,"no_speech_prob":0.01342010498046875,"words":[]},{"start":2926.72,"end":2932.64,"text":" in the beginning turning back to it to Roman Storm. This got it was breaking right as Hissy","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.153125,"compression_ratio":1.8661417322834646,"no_speech_prob":0.0083160400390625,"words":[]},{"start":2932.64,"end":2937.44,"text":" and I started recording no verdict today in the United States versus Stormcase the jury is being","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.153125,"compression_ratio":1.8661417322834646,"no_speech_prob":0.0083160400390625,"words":[]},{"start":2937.44,"end":2944.08,"text":" sent home and deliberations will continue not Friday but Monday. I mean we are not going to","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.153125,"compression_ratio":1.8661417322834646,"no_speech_prob":0.0083160400390625,"words":[]},{"start":2944.08,"end":2949.68,"text":" hear the outcome of the Roman Stormcase until perhaps not even Monday deliberations will continue","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.153125,"compression_ratio":1.8661417322834646,"no_speech_prob":0.0083160400390625,"words":[]},{"start":2949.68,"end":2955.2,"text":" on Monday and then if they conclude deliberating on Monday then we can hear a verdict on Monday","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.153125,"compression_ratio":1.8661417322834646,"no_speech_prob":0.0083160400390625,"words":[]},{"start":2955.2000000000003,"end":2961.36,"text":" but in theory you could go into the next day as well. From Jake Chervinsky he said you know","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1438988095238095,"compression_ratio":1.8226415094339623,"no_speech_prob":0.003322601318359375,"words":[]},{"start":2961.36,"end":2965.92,"text":" optimistically trying to be optimistic about the situation is that long deliberations are","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1438988095238095,"compression_ratio":1.8226415094339623,"no_speech_prob":0.003322601318359375,"words":[]},{"start":2965.92,"end":2973.2000000000003,"text":" believed to benefit the defense because there needs to be a unanimous agreement with the prosecution","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1438988095238095,"compression_ratio":1.8226415094339623,"no_speech_prob":0.003322601318359375,"words":[]},{"start":2973.2000000000003,"end":2978.0000000000005,"text":" in order for the prosecution's charges to actually be successful to the in order for prosecution to","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1438988095238095,"compression_ratio":1.8226415094339623,"no_speech_prob":0.003322601318359375,"words":[]},{"start":2978.0000000000005,"end":2983.1200000000003,"text":" win they need all 12 members of the jury to unanimously agree with the prosecution so if there's any","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1438988095238095,"compression_ratio":1.8226415094339623,"no_speech_prob":0.003322601318359375,"words":[]},{"start":2983.12,"end":2988.88,"text":" if anyone doubts we can get ourselves into a hung jury which would result in the whole storm the","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08761160714285714,"compression_ratio":1.6406779661016948,"no_speech_prob":0.00498199462890625,"words":[]},{"start":2988.88,"end":2994,"text":" whole case starting over again if the United States attorney wanted to even do that in the first","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08761160714285714,"compression_ratio":1.6406779661016948,"no_speech_prob":0.00498199462890625,"words":[]},{"start":2994,"end":2999.68,"text":" place so I think there's like reasons to be optimistic about the outcome here although we just","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08761160714285714,"compression_ratio":1.6406779661016948,"no_speech_prob":0.00498199462890625,"words":[]},{"start":2999.68,"end":3005.44,"text":" don't know and it's going to take us until Monday at the earliest to actually find out Hissy what's","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08761160714285714,"compression_ratio":1.6406779661016948,"no_speech_prob":0.00498199462890625,"words":[]},{"start":3005.44,"end":3012.48,"text":" your reaction. Yeah so people may know that I'm very close to this case for a few reasons so we","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08761160714285714,"compression_ratio":1.6406779661016948,"no_speech_prob":0.00498199462890625,"words":[]},{"start":3012.48,"end":3018.64,"text":" were actually the seed investors into tornado cash and Dragonfly ended up ourselves getting pulled","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10974264705882353,"compression_ratio":1.7954545454545454,"no_speech_prob":0.0008425712585449219,"words":[]},{"start":3018.64,"end":3024.32,"text":" into the whole situation because you know we were subpoenaed in the process of the DOJ investigating","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10974264705882353,"compression_ratio":1.7954545454545454,"no_speech_prob":0.0008425712585449219,"words":[]},{"start":3024.32,"end":3032.08,"text":" this case and then on Friday last Friday the DOJ in open court claimed that they were planning to","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10974264705882353,"compression_ratio":1.7954545454545454,"no_speech_prob":0.0008425712585449219,"words":[]},{"start":3032.08,"end":3037.76,"text":" charge Dragonfly for being investors into tornado cash now this ended up kicking off a whole fire","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10974264705882353,"compression_ratio":1.7954545454545454,"no_speech_prob":0.0008425712585449219,"words":[]},{"start":3037.92,"end":3043.44,"text":" storm and by Monday they backtracked in open court stated that oh no hold on that's not what we","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.18844288793103448,"compression_ratio":1.9058823529411764,"no_speech_prob":0.0171661376953125,"words":[]},{"start":3043.44,"end":3047.6000000000004,"text":" meant you know we're not we're not planning to charge anybody a Dragonfly they're not targets in","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.18844288793103448,"compression_ratio":1.9058823529411764,"no_speech_prob":0.0171661376953125,"words":[]},{"start":3047.6000000000004,"end":3053.28,"text":" our investigation in open court you mean in Roman's case they said you know so in open court means","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.18844288793103448,"compression_ratio":1.9058823529411764,"no_speech_prob":0.0171661376953125,"words":[]},{"start":3053.28,"end":3059.1200000000003,"text":" that the the basically it was open to the public at the time that they made the statement I mean","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.18844288793103448,"compression_ratio":1.9058823529411764,"no_speech_prob":0.0171661376953125,"words":[]},{"start":3059.1200000000003,"end":3063.0400000000004,"text":" that the media was in the room there's a high profile case so the media cover you know most cases","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.18844288793103448,"compression_ratio":1.9058823529411764,"no_speech_prob":0.0171661376953125,"words":[]},{"start":3063.04,"end":3067.84,"text":" nobody's nobody's nobody cares no one's watching um uh you are never ever allowed","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1736111111111111,"compression_ratio":1.7647058823529411,"no_speech_prob":0.0010480880737304688,"words":[]},{"start":3067.84,"end":3073.68,"text":" according to DOJ rules to mention any investigations into a third party in open court it is absolutely","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1736111111111111,"compression_ratio":1.7647058823529411,"no_speech_prob":0.0010480880737304688,"words":[]},{"start":3073.68,"end":3080.08,"text":" not allowed you are supposed to clear the court and have a private colloquy with the judge if you want","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1736111111111111,"compression_ratio":1.7647058823529411,"no_speech_prob":0.0010480880737304688,"words":[]},{"start":3080.08,"end":3086.48,"text":" to talk about anything that is relevant to anybody besides the parties in the case um so the DOJ","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1736111111111111,"compression_ratio":1.7647058823529411,"no_speech_prob":0.0010480880737304688,"words":[]},{"start":3086.48,"end":3091.04,"text":" news new they messed up you can see it because they sealed the transcript um and they basically","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1736111111111111,"compression_ratio":1.7647058823529411,"no_speech_prob":0.0010480880737304688,"words":[]},{"start":3091.04,"end":3095.2,"text":" mean that the the public normally is around to read transcripts from what happened that day in court","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12196180555555555,"compression_ratio":1.8415094339622642,"no_speech_prob":0.0021152496337890625,"words":[]},{"start":3095.7599999999998,"end":3099.6,"text":" they sealed the transcript for that day meaning that nobody from the public is allowed to read it","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12196180555555555,"compression_ratio":1.8415094339622642,"no_speech_prob":0.0021152496337890625,"words":[]},{"start":3099.6,"end":3104.32,"text":" because of the fact that they read this into open court which they weren't supposed to so anyway","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12196180555555555,"compression_ratio":1.8415094339622642,"no_speech_prob":0.0021152496337890625,"words":[]},{"start":3104.96,"end":3111.7599999999998,"text":" this was kind of a crazy week for me personally right um of course you know I know Roman very well","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12196180555555555,"compression_ratio":1.8415094339622642,"no_speech_prob":0.0021152496337890625,"words":[]},{"start":3111.7599999999998,"end":3118.64,"text":" known for years and like last yesterday uh we're the closing arguments in the case and I read","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12196180555555555,"compression_ratio":1.8415094339622642,"no_speech_prob":0.0021152496337890625,"words":[]},{"start":3118.72,"end":3123.6,"text":" the entire transcript um it's like 233 pages I read all the closing arguments uh unfortunately I","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10484601449275362,"compression_ratio":1.9012738853503184,"no_speech_prob":0.00208282470703125,"words":[]},{"start":3123.6,"end":3127.6,"text":" couldn't be there because I'm not in New York I'm I'm in the west coast right now um it is really","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10484601449275362,"compression_ratio":1.9012738853503184,"no_speech_prob":0.00208282470703125,"words":[]},{"start":3127.6,"end":3135.04,"text":" difficult to read I think right now the jury today they um asked a few questions so the jury the","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10484601449275362,"compression_ratio":1.9012738853503184,"no_speech_prob":0.00208282470703125,"words":[]},{"start":3135.04,"end":3140.3199999999997,"text":" jury goes away and deliberates uh and they can deliberate for as long as they want um and they're","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10484601449275362,"compression_ratio":1.9012738853503184,"no_speech_prob":0.00208282470703125,"words":[]},{"start":3140.3199999999997,"end":3143.6,"text":" allowed to ask the judge questions which they you know they write into note and then they hand the note","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10484601449275362,"compression_ratio":1.9012738853503184,"no_speech_prob":0.00208282470703125,"words":[]},{"start":3143.6,"end":3147.44,"text":" to the judge and the judge can answer a question to clarify something that the jury wants to understand","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10484601449275362,"compression_ratio":1.9012738853503184,"no_speech_prob":0.00208282470703125,"words":[]},{"start":3147.44,"end":3155.68,"text":" about the law um the jury today asked the judge a question about whether or not Roman storm had","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.07231212797619048,"compression_ratio":1.857843137254902,"no_speech_prob":0.0004239082336425781,"words":[]},{"start":3155.68,"end":3162.64,"text":" arguments presented before the indictment for the prosecution to bring charges based on venue","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.07231212797619048,"compression_ratio":1.857843137254902,"no_speech_prob":0.0004239082336425781,"words":[]},{"start":3163.28,"end":3168.32,"text":" so venue means um when you bring charges against a defendant you have to bring it in the right","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.07231212797619048,"compression_ratio":1.857843137254902,"no_speech_prob":0.0004239082336425781,"words":[]},{"start":3168.32,"end":3172.2400000000002,"text":" venue you have to bring it in the right place you can't charge them anywhere you want um so if","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.07231212797619048,"compression_ratio":1.857843137254902,"no_speech_prob":0.0004239082336425781,"words":[]},{"start":3172.2400000000002,"end":3178.4,"text":" somebody did some activity in state x but you charge them in state y uh you're you're a case","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12004743303571429,"compression_ratio":1.9291338582677164,"no_speech_prob":0.0003800392150878906,"words":[]},{"start":3178.4,"end":3181.2000000000003,"text":" you can get thrown out for venue it's gonna say you're the wrong venue go try it over there if you","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12004743303571429,"compression_ratio":1.9291338582677164,"no_speech_prob":0.0003800392150878906,"words":[]},{"start":3181.2000000000003,"end":3186.7200000000003,"text":" want to try it um so one of the weakest parts of this case has been venue so if you remember actually","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12004743303571429,"compression_ratio":1.9291338582677164,"no_speech_prob":0.0003800392150878906,"words":[]},{"start":3186.7200000000003,"end":3192.96,"text":" the mango markets case uh the mango markets case got thrown out host the verdict because of venue","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12004743303571429,"compression_ratio":1.9291338582677164,"no_speech_prob":0.0003800392150878906,"words":[]},{"start":3192.96,"end":3197.0400000000004,"text":" problems because basically they tried and something district of New York but the mango markets guy","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12004743303571429,"compression_ratio":1.9291338582677164,"no_speech_prob":0.0003800392150878906,"words":[]},{"start":3197.04,"end":3202.08,"text":" Avi he was in Puerto Rico and there was no activity in New York they're they're claim of like why is","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.16029094827586207,"compression_ratio":1.8609022556390977,"no_speech_prob":0.0009851455688476562,"words":[]},{"start":3202.08,"end":3206.64,"text":" this case being tried in New York the answer was like well there's some users who use mango markets","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.16029094827586207,"compression_ratio":1.8609022556390977,"no_speech_prob":0.0009851455688476562,"words":[]},{"start":3206.64,"end":3209.92,"text":" were in New York it's like no that's not enough to establish venue that's not where the crime took","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.16029094827586207,"compression_ratio":1.8609022556390977,"no_speech_prob":0.0009851455688476562,"words":[]},{"start":3209.92,"end":3215.52,"text":" place crime took place in Puerto Rico no the screw off get out of here um so Roman storm he was in","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.16029094827586207,"compression_ratio":1.8609022556390977,"no_speech_prob":0.0009851455688476562,"words":[]},{"start":3215.52,"end":3221.36,"text":" Seattle for the entire period of him working on tornado cash and the arguments that they brought","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.16029094827586207,"compression_ratio":1.8609022556390977,"no_speech_prob":0.0009851455688476562,"words":[]},{"start":3221.44,"end":3227.36,"text":" of why this case was being tried in New York was we found some victims who used tornado cash","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1593017578125,"compression_ratio":1.9337979094076656,"no_speech_prob":0.0011692047119140625,"words":[]},{"start":3227.92,"end":3232.1600000000003,"text":" who were in New York those are the venue arguments is that there are some people used to","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1593017578125,"compression_ratio":1.9337979094076656,"no_speech_prob":0.0011692047119140625,"words":[]},{"start":3232.1600000000003,"end":3235.44,"text":" need a cash who were in New York North Korea was obviously not in New York any sanctions","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1593017578125,"compression_ratio":1.9337979094076656,"no_speech_prob":0.0011692047119140625,"words":[]},{"start":3235.44,"end":3239.6800000000003,"text":" violations obviously did not had nothing to do in New York um and the other claim they had was that","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1593017578125,"compression_ratio":1.9337979094076656,"no_speech_prob":0.0011692047119140625,"words":[]},{"start":3239.6800000000003,"end":3244.32,"text":" Tom who's at Dragonfly who's one of the people who was uh part of the investment trainer cash","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1593017578125,"compression_ratio":1.9337979094076656,"no_speech_prob":0.0011692047119140625,"words":[]},{"start":3244.32,"end":3249.04,"text":" he was in New York for a couple weeks while Roman talked to him about some random messages","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1593017578125,"compression_ratio":1.9337979094076656,"no_speech_prob":0.0011692047119140625,"words":[]},{"start":3249.68,"end":3252.32,"text":" nothing to do with tornado cash nothing to do with sanctions nothing to do with money laundering","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10752952755905512,"compression_ratio":1.9726962457337884,"no_speech_prob":0.001926422119140625,"words":[]},{"start":3252.32,"end":3255.2,"text":" nothing you know nothing to do with any of the actual substance of the charges so these were","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10752952755905512,"compression_ratio":1.9726962457337884,"no_speech_prob":0.001926422119140625,"words":[]},{"start":3255.2,"end":3262.8,"text":" their arguments for venue the fact of the jury is asking the court did they prove something else","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10752952755905512,"compression_ratio":1.9726962457337884,"no_speech_prob":0.001926422119140625,"words":[]},{"start":3262.8,"end":3267.2,"text":" about venue that we don't know about and the judge replied you're not allowed to consider that","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10752952755905512,"compression_ratio":1.9726962457337884,"no_speech_prob":0.001926422119140625,"words":[]},{"start":3267.2,"end":3272.64,"text":" go back and keep delivering um to me and i think uh Jake also pointed this out that may be a very","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10752952755905512,"compression_ratio":1.9726962457337884,"no_speech_prob":0.001926422119140625,"words":[]},{"start":3272.64,"end":3277.7599999999998,"text":" good sign that the jury is seriously considering whether or not to throw out these charges just on","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10752952755905512,"compression_ratio":1.9726962457337884,"no_speech_prob":0.001926422119140625,"words":[]},{"start":3277.76,"end":3282.7200000000003,"text":" the basis of venue i mean so we're all trying to read the minds of 12 people in a deliberation","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.0843070652173913,"compression_ratio":1.7636363636363637,"no_speech_prob":0.00014197826385498047,"words":[]},{"start":3282.7200000000003,"end":3289.0400000000004,"text":" room so we don't really know i think they're what i'm reading is there's reasons to be optimistic but","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.0843070652173913,"compression_ratio":1.7636363636363637,"no_speech_prob":0.00014197826385498047,"words":[]},{"start":3289.0400000000004,"end":3296.2400000000002,"text":" we are making assumptions as we do become optimistic based on those things to be honest i think","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.0843070652173913,"compression_ratio":1.7636363636363637,"no_speech_prob":0.00014197826385498047,"words":[]},{"start":3296.2400000000002,"end":3300.8,"text":" Roman's best chance so one thing we know from the trial is that the jury is very non-technical","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.0843070652173913,"compression_ratio":1.7636363636363637,"no_speech_prob":0.00014197826385498047,"words":[]},{"start":3301.44,"end":3305.84,"text":" before the jury was seated you do jury selection so that the prosecution and the defense can both","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.0843070652173913,"compression_ratio":1.7636363636363637,"no_speech_prob":0.00014197826385498047,"words":[]},{"start":3305.84,"end":3311.76,"text":" like cross out jurors um everybody who knew stuff about crypto was a limited jury selection by","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11726190476190476,"compression_ratio":2,"no_speech_prob":0.0017004013061523438,"words":[]},{"start":3311.76,"end":3317.6000000000004,"text":" the prosecution so nobody who's on this jury knows anything about crypto so they're all learning all","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11726190476190476,"compression_ratio":2,"no_speech_prob":0.0017004013061523438,"words":[]},{"start":3317.6000000000004,"end":3324,"text":" these concepts for the first time um the closing arguments from the prosecution were very strong","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11726190476190476,"compression_ratio":2,"no_speech_prob":0.0017004013061523438,"words":[]},{"start":3324,"end":3327.04,"text":" if you don't know anything about crypto and you don't understand what a DAO is you don't understand","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11726190476190476,"compression_ratio":2,"no_speech_prob":0.0017004013061523438,"words":[]},{"start":3327.04,"end":3331.6800000000003,"text":" what decentralization is you don't know any of these concepts right the the argument from the","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11726190476190476,"compression_ratio":2,"no_speech_prob":0.0017004013061523438,"words":[]},{"start":3331.6800000000003,"end":3338.7200000000003,"text":" prosecutors was look don't you you got use your common sense these guys made money money was","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11427436440677965,"compression_ratio":2.080508474576271,"no_speech_prob":0.0006165504455566406,"words":[]},{"start":3338.7200000000003,"end":3343.2000000000003,"text":" laundered it's a money laundering business the end you know look at these guys look at look at","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11427436440677965,"compression_ratio":2.080508474576271,"no_speech_prob":0.0006165504455566406,"words":[]},{"start":3343.2000000000003,"end":3346.8,"text":" you know just look at them you know you know in your heart of hearts that these guys are money launders","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11427436440677965,"compression_ratio":2.080508474576271,"no_speech_prob":0.0006165504455566406,"words":[]},{"start":3347.4400000000005,"end":3352.6400000000003,"text":" that argument i think it's very likely that a jury is going to be swayed by that now when this case","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11427436440677965,"compression_ratio":2.080508474576271,"no_speech_prob":0.0006165504455566406,"words":[]},{"start":3352.6400000000003,"end":3357.6000000000004,"text":" goes on appeal everybody i know who's a lawyer has said that romans odds to win this case on appeal","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11427436440677965,"compression_ratio":2.080508474576271,"no_speech_prob":0.0006165504455566406,"words":[]},{"start":3357.6,"end":3364.16,"text":" are very high there are a lot of decisions that the judge made that are very likely to be over very","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1215572033898305,"compression_ratio":1.815217391304348,"no_speech_prob":0.0028438568115234375,"words":[]},{"start":3364.16,"end":3371.44,"text":" likely to be looked at with suspicion by a an appellate court but the district court ultimately comes","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1215572033898305,"compression_ratio":1.815217391304348,"no_speech_prob":0.0028438568115234375,"words":[]},{"start":3371.44,"end":3377.6,"text":" down to these 12 jurors and if they don't give get a finding on venue my my fear is that they're","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1215572033898305,"compression_ratio":1.815217391304348,"no_speech_prob":0.0028438568115234375,"words":[]},{"start":3377.6,"end":3381.52,"text":" very likely to convict on at least one of these charges so wait wait the reason why we're throwing","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1215572033898305,"compression_ratio":1.815217391304348,"no_speech_prob":0.0028438568115234375,"words":[]},{"start":3381.52,"end":3386.64,"text":" around throwing out all of the technical jurors is because if you have any sort of context about crypto","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1215572033898305,"compression_ratio":1.815217391304348,"no_speech_prob":0.0028438568115234375,"words":[]},{"start":3386.64,"end":3391.3599999999997,"text":" it's easier for the defense to explain some of these concepts uh but if you don't imagine","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10092329545454545,"compression_ratio":1.7843866171003717,"no_speech_prob":0.00251007080078125,"words":[]},{"start":3391.3599999999997,"end":3395.2799999999997,"text":" it's teaching 12 people about the nuances of crypto and how this all works that's just like not","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10092329545454545,"compression_ratio":1.7843866171003717,"no_speech_prob":0.00251007080078125,"words":[]},{"start":3395.2799999999997,"end":3400.4,"text":" favorable to the defense whatsoever i mean to be clear the defense also structures and probably the","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10092329545454545,"compression_ratio":1.7843866171003717,"no_speech_prob":0.00251007080078125,"words":[]},{"start":3400.4,"end":3406.56,"text":" jurors they struck were anybody who says you know i don't trust russians or i don't like uh crypto","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10092329545454545,"compression_ratio":1.7843866171003717,"no_speech_prob":0.00251007080078125,"words":[]},{"start":3406.56,"end":3411.3599999999997,"text":" i think crypto is used for crime like they struck all those people right so everybody had their","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10092329545454545,"compression_ratio":1.7843866171003717,"no_speech_prob":0.00251007080078125,"words":[]},{"start":3411.36,"end":3416.56,"text":" chance to strike a jurors but what you're left with is ultimately a non-technical jury pool and","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11592261904761905,"compression_ratio":1.7509293680297398,"no_speech_prob":0.002590179443359375,"words":[]},{"start":3417.1200000000003,"end":3422.2400000000002,"text":" that that that's how our jury system works unfortunately i don't know how much you can actually","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11592261904761905,"compression_ratio":1.7509293680297398,"no_speech_prob":0.002590179443359375,"words":[]},{"start":3422.2400000000002,"end":3428.56,"text":" speak about this to see but the idea that the department of justice might have uh a lawsuit","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11592261904761905,"compression_ratio":1.7509293680297398,"no_speech_prob":0.002590179443359375,"words":[]},{"start":3428.56,"end":3433.76,"text":" lawsuit against dragonfly because you guys are criminal charges a criminal charges against","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11592261904761905,"compression_ratio":1.7509293680297398,"no_speech_prob":0.002590179443359375,"words":[]},{"start":3433.76,"end":3439.76,"text":" members of dragonfly for being an investor in uh in in tornado cash in the in the company behind","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11592261904761905,"compression_ratio":1.7509293680297398,"no_speech_prob":0.002590179443359375,"words":[]},{"start":3439.76,"end":3444.88,"text":" tornado cash talk about the implications of that about like why is that significant obviously","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13041948198198197,"compression_ratio":1.8125,"no_speech_prob":0.0004954338073730469,"words":[]},{"start":3444.88,"end":3452,"text":" beyond just face value uh and what what the long-term impacts of that are so first thing to be clear","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13041948198198197,"compression_ratio":1.8125,"no_speech_prob":0.0004954338073730469,"words":[]},{"start":3452.96,"end":3456.32,"text":" they did not file any charges and they and they made very clear that they're not intending to file","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13041948198198197,"compression_ratio":1.8125,"no_speech_prob":0.0004954338073730469,"words":[]},{"start":3456.32,"end":3461.76,"text":" any charges against us or any investors into tornado cash um there's also no precedent for it in","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13041948198198197,"compression_ratio":1.8125,"no_speech_prob":0.0004954338073730469,"words":[]},{"start":3461.76,"end":3468.0800000000004,"text":" American history never happened so whether it's you know enron or theranos or any of these cases where","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13041948198198197,"compression_ratio":1.8125,"no_speech_prob":0.0004954338073730469,"words":[]},{"start":3468.7999999999997,"end":3473.2799999999997,"text":" the other line company's been indicted for some criminal activity the investors unless the","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12266355140186916,"compression_ratio":1.8837209302325582,"no_speech_prob":0.00075531005859375,"words":[]},{"start":3473.2799999999997,"end":3478.24,"text":" investors are actually co-conspirators in some way you know it's like it's like a mob front or something","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12266355140186916,"compression_ratio":1.8837209302325582,"no_speech_prob":0.00075531005859375,"words":[]},{"start":3479.04,"end":3483.2799999999997,"text":" that just never happens absolutely never happens so there's no case law there's no precedent for","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12266355140186916,"compression_ratio":1.8837209302325582,"no_speech_prob":0.00075531005859375,"words":[]},{"start":3483.2799999999997,"end":3490.64,"text":" doing this ever now that being said um even the threat of saying that you might get prosecuted","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12266355140186916,"compression_ratio":1.8837209302325582,"no_speech_prob":0.00075531005859375,"words":[]},{"start":3490.64,"end":3495.44,"text":" if you invest into something that we later decide is engage in criminal activity would have such a","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12266355140186916,"compression_ratio":1.8837209302325582,"no_speech_prob":0.00075531005859375,"words":[]},{"start":3495.44,"end":3501.28,"text":" massive chilling effect on the willingness of investors to invest into anything that is not","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12373737373737374,"compression_ratio":1.736842105263158,"no_speech_prob":0.0005974769592285156,"words":[]},{"start":3502.48,"end":3506.48,"text":" clearly within the boundary of a regulated business right i mean we just heard from this","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12373737373737374,"compression_ratio":1.736842105263158,"no_speech_prob":0.0005974769592285156,"words":[]},{"start":3506.48,"end":3512,"text":" Paul Atkins case is that the the goal of the Trump administration is to open up the avenues for","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12373737373737374,"compression_ratio":1.736842105263158,"no_speech_prob":0.0005974769592285156,"words":[]},{"start":3512,"end":3518.4,"text":" innovation to allow builders to continue to build and to innovate unperturbed by uh whether","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12373737373737374,"compression_ratio":1.736842105263158,"no_speech_prob":0.0005974769592285156,"words":[]},{"start":3518.4,"end":3522.8,"text":" regulators or by law enforcement right just make the rules clear of what you can it cannot do","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12373737373737374,"compression_ratio":1.736842105263158,"no_speech_prob":0.0005974769592285156,"words":[]},{"start":3522.88,"end":3528.1600000000003,"text":" 2019 Fincent gave this guidance that said very clearly if you are not costating assets","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.18886861313868614,"compression_ratio":1.8155339805825244,"no_speech_prob":0.0017824172973632812,"words":[]},{"start":3528.6400000000003,"end":3532.7200000000003,"text":" that you are not a money transmitting a transmission business and therefore you do not have BSA","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.18886861313868614,"compression_ratio":1.8155339805825244,"no_speech_prob":0.0017824172973632812,"words":[]},{"start":3532.7200000000003,"end":3536.1600000000003,"text":" obligations you don't have to KML you don't have to KYC you don't have to do any of these things","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.18886861313868614,"compression_ratio":1.8155339805825244,"no_speech_prob":0.0017824172973632812,"words":[]},{"start":3536.1600000000003,"end":3542,"text":" right self-custody was the boundary that they defined that was the rule that everybody in this","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.18886861313868614,"compression_ratio":1.8155339805825244,"no_speech_prob":0.0017824172973632812,"words":[]},{"start":3542,"end":3546.7200000000003,"text":" industry followed whether it's Minero or Zcash or Aztec or tornado cash everybody followed those","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.18886861313868614,"compression_ratio":1.8155339805825244,"no_speech_prob":0.0017824172973632812,"words":[]},{"start":3546.7200000000003,"end":3552.1600000000003,"text":" to those same rules for them to then go back on that and to say no no guess what if North","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.18886861313868614,"compression_ratio":1.8155339805825244,"no_speech_prob":0.0017824172973632812,"words":[]},{"start":3552.16,"end":3558.48,"text":" Korea used your business all bets are off if your protocol was used by the wrong dude","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10211614173228346,"compression_ratio":1.9172413793103449,"no_speech_prob":0.0010814666748046875,"words":[]},{"start":3558.48,"end":3561.04,"text":" doesn't matter what you doesn't matter what rules you follow doesn't matter what you thought at","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10211614173228346,"compression_ratio":1.9172413793103449,"no_speech_prob":0.0010814666748046875,"words":[]},{"start":3561.04,"end":3564.72,"text":" the time doesn't matter if you thought what you were doing was legal that precedent is a","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10211614173228346,"compression_ratio":1.9172413793103449,"no_speech_prob":0.0010814666748046875,"words":[]},{"start":3564.72,"end":3571.44,"text":" horrible outrageous and chilling precedent um and that's why i think the DOJ backed off of it so","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10211614173228346,"compression_ratio":1.9172413793103449,"no_speech_prob":0.0010814666748046875,"words":[]},{"start":3571.44,"end":3576.16,"text":" couldn't we is they realize that like hey they're bigger consequences than just what happens in this","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10211614173228346,"compression_ratio":1.9172413793103449,"no_speech_prob":0.0010814666748046875,"words":[]},{"start":3576.16,"end":3582,"text":" case if we allowed this to potentially stand my read on this case as a whole is the DOJ","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10211614173228346,"compression_ratio":1.9172413793103449,"no_speech_prob":0.0010814666748046875,"words":[]},{"start":3582,"end":3586.32,"text":" is just trying to use tornado cash specifically robin corn to robin storm specifically as like a","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1534845132743363,"compression_ratio":1.7749077490774907,"no_speech_prob":0.0028896331787109375,"words":[]},{"start":3587.44,"end":3591.68,"text":" in order to do a make a chilling effect upon anyone who wants to build a privacy out they're","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1534845132743363,"compression_ratio":1.7749077490774907,"no_speech_prob":0.0028896331787109375,"words":[]},{"start":3591.68,"end":3598.24,"text":" really just using him as an example and going after him hard because of how tornado cash really","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1534845132743363,"compression_ratio":1.7749077490774907,"no_speech_prob":0.0028896331787109375,"words":[]},{"start":3598.24,"end":3605.6,"text":" just goes against their goals of of the DOJ uh and i think i i mean i think anyone in crypto kind of","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1534845132743363,"compression_ratio":1.7749077490774907,"no_speech_prob":0.0028896331787109375,"words":[]},{"start":3605.6,"end":3610.72,"text":" understands that or at least thinks that that to be the case but i'm guessing the jury doesn't","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1534845132743363,"compression_ratio":1.7749077490774907,"no_speech_prob":0.0028896331787109375,"words":[]},{"start":3610.7200000000003,"end":3614.5600000000004,"text":" understand that or see that angle whatsoever there's no assumption that we should make that the","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11820023148148148,"compression_ratio":1.7602996254681649,"no_speech_prob":0.00018525123596191406,"words":[]},{"start":3614.5600000000004,"end":3620.88,"text":" jury sees the DOJ really in what would a crypto person's perspective be reaching in order to make","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11820023148148148,"compression_ratio":1.7602996254681649,"no_speech_prob":0.00018525123596191406,"words":[]},{"start":3620.88,"end":3625.92,"text":" this case against robin storm i'm guessing the jury doesn't really see that angle of course not","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11820023148148148,"compression_ratio":1.7602996254681649,"no_speech_prob":0.00018525123596191406,"words":[]},{"start":3625.92,"end":3631.6000000000004,"text":" i mean the one of the most notable parts of this case was the um you know rolling was","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11820023148148148,"compression_ratio":1.7602996254681649,"no_speech_prob":0.00018525123596191406,"words":[]},{"start":3631.6000000000004,"end":3639.28,"text":" indicted in 2022 um at the same time uh soon before that tornado cash itself was sanctioned by","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11820023148148148,"compression_ratio":1.7602996254681649,"no_speech_prob":0.00018525123596191406,"words":[]},{"start":3639.28,"end":3648.5600000000004,"text":" OFAC right last year 2024 during roman storms uh after roman storm was already indicted 2024","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13980654761904762,"compression_ratio":1.7472924187725631,"no_speech_prob":0.0007791519165039062,"words":[]},{"start":3648.5600000000004,"end":3654.1600000000003,"text":" those sanctions against tornado cash got overturned in the second circuit um those got canceled it is","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13980654761904762,"compression_ratio":1.7472924187725631,"no_speech_prob":0.0007791519165039062,"words":[]},{"start":3654.1600000000003,"end":3659.6800000000003,"text":" now legal for americans to use tornado cash as much as you want um despite that the prosecution","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13980654761904762,"compression_ratio":1.7472924187725631,"no_speech_prob":0.0007791519165039062,"words":[]},{"start":3659.6800000000003,"end":3664.48,"text":" went through all they did was drop one of the charges which was unlicensed money transmitter um","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13980654761904762,"compression_ratio":1.7472924187725631,"no_speech_prob":0.0007791519165039062,"words":[]},{"start":3664.48,"end":3667.6800000000003,"text":" now so the reason why they dropped that was actually not because of the OFAC sanctions the reason","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13980654761904762,"compression_ratio":1.7472924187725631,"no_speech_prob":0.0007791519165039062,"words":[]},{"start":3667.76,"end":3671.84,"text":" why they dropped that was this uh blanche memo which i don't know if you if you cover this at all","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12540760869565218,"compression_ratio":1.8160919540229885,"no_speech_prob":0.0018100738525390625,"words":[]},{"start":3671.84,"end":3677.76,"text":" bankless but uh taught blanche wrote a memo um he was i think uh deputy attorney general um he wrote","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12540760869565218,"compression_ratio":1.8160919540229885,"no_speech_prob":0.0018100738525390625,"words":[]},{"start":3677.76,"end":3681.84,"text":" this memo but basically saying that there there's there's there's new rule in town for the DOJ","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12540760869565218,"compression_ratio":1.8160919540229885,"no_speech_prob":0.0018100738525390625,"words":[]},{"start":3682.8,"end":3689.92,"text":" the new rule is that we are no longer pursuing prosecutions for uh registration offenses","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12540760869565218,"compression_ratio":1.8160919540229885,"no_speech_prob":0.0018100738525390625,"words":[]},{"start":3690.5600000000004,"end":3694.6400000000003,"text":" so if you did not register or you have you know you failed to get a license we're no longer","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12540760869565218,"compression_ratio":1.8160919540229885,"no_speech_prob":0.0018100738525390625,"words":[]},{"start":3694.64,"end":3700.3199999999997,"text":" prosecuting that it's not a good use of our time we are going to prosecute criminal actors hackers","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08757560483870967,"compression_ratio":1.9829931972789117,"no_speech_prob":0.0012254714965820312,"words":[]},{"start":3700.3199999999997,"end":3705.68,"text":" or people who are either attacking others or attacking crypto people if you are actually going at","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08757560483870967,"compression_ratio":1.9829931972789117,"no_speech_prob":0.0012254714965820312,"words":[]},{"start":3705.68,"end":3711.2,"text":" or you know cartels or or um you know uh drug offenses or things like this right like these these","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08757560483870967,"compression_ratio":1.9829931972789117,"no_speech_prob":0.0012254714965820312,"words":[]},{"start":3711.2,"end":3714.96,"text":" kinds of people using crypto we will absolutely continue going after but registration offenses","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08757560483870967,"compression_ratio":1.9829931972789117,"no_speech_prob":0.0012254714965820312,"words":[]},{"start":3714.96,"end":3718.8799999999997,"text":" were done going after that criminally right this was the blanche memo everybody thought after the","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08757560483870967,"compression_ratio":1.9829931972789117,"no_speech_prob":0.0012254714965820312,"words":[]},{"start":3718.8799999999997,"end":3722.64,"text":" blanche memo well they're probably gonna drop these cases because this is you know what what is","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08757560483870967,"compression_ratio":1.9829931972789117,"no_speech_prob":0.0012254714965820312,"words":[]},{"start":3722.64,"end":3725.68,"text":" the case here other than to say that well they should have registered they should have done AML","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1383495145631068,"compression_ratio":1.9317269076305221,"no_speech_prob":0.0010156631469726562,"words":[]},{"start":3725.68,"end":3729.7599999999998,"text":" they should have done KYC that's effectively a registration offense but what they did instead","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1383495145631068,"compression_ratio":1.9317269076305221,"no_speech_prob":0.0010156631469726562,"words":[]},{"start":3729.7599999999998,"end":3733.52,"text":" is they simply dropped one of the three charges which was the unlicensed money transmitter charge","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1383495145631068,"compression_ratio":1.9317269076305221,"no_speech_prob":0.0010156631469726562,"words":[]},{"start":3734.72,"end":3741.68,"text":" but the conspiracy to um i believe uh there's conspiracy with a lot of money um conspiracy to evade","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1383495145631068,"compression_ratio":1.9317269076305221,"no_speech_prob":0.0010156631469726562,"words":[]},{"start":3741.68,"end":3747.3599999999997,"text":" sanctions and then there's uh the last charges like conspiracy to um transmit money illegally","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1383495145631068,"compression_ratio":1.9317269076305221,"no_speech_prob":0.0010156631469726562,"words":[]},{"start":3747.44,"end":3753.84,"text":" or something like this those charges are still there so i think this is one of the last um cases","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10235699152542373,"compression_ratio":1.797752808988764,"no_speech_prob":0.00572967529296875,"words":[]},{"start":3754.4,"end":3760.6400000000003,"text":" that is again like a holdover of the Biden administration era attack against crypto and um it's","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10235699152542373,"compression_ratio":1.797752808988764,"no_speech_prob":0.00572967529296875,"words":[]},{"start":3760.6400000000003,"end":3764.56,"text":" really painful to see this kind of playing out in front of us at the same time that the rest of","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10235699152542373,"compression_ratio":1.797752808988764,"no_speech_prob":0.00572967529296875,"words":[]},{"start":3764.56,"end":3770.1600000000003,"text":" the industry is moving on yeah yeah yeah yeah it's gonna it's a it's a long weekend ahead of us","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10235699152542373,"compression_ratio":1.797752808988764,"no_speech_prob":0.00572967529296875,"words":[]},{"start":3770.1600000000003,"end":3773.6,"text":" the like i said the jury doesn't come back on Friday so they go all the way until monday i just","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10235699152542373,"compression_ratio":1.797752808988764,"no_speech_prob":0.00572967529296875,"words":[]},{"start":3773.6,"end":3779.52,"text":" can't imagine the just appreciating amount of pressure that roman storm just feels that doing","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14557291666666666,"compression_ratio":1.866412213740458,"no_speech_prob":0.005298614501953125,"words":[]},{"start":3779.52,"end":3784.3199999999997,"text":" i don't know what saying is hotel room waiting for monday to roll around so you can hear the verdict","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14557291666666666,"compression_ratio":1.866412213740458,"no_speech_prob":0.005298614501953125,"words":[]},{"start":3784.3199999999997,"end":3791.6,"text":" and that's kind of how i feel uh as well yeah likewise well has he uh to end on that note i guess uh","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14557291666666666,"compression_ratio":1.866412213740458,"no_speech_prob":0.005298614501953125,"words":[]},{"start":3791.6,"end":3796.08,"text":" thanks for joining me on on the weekly rollup and i think uh you know i'm keeping roman in my","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14557291666666666,"compression_ratio":1.866412213740458,"no_speech_prob":0.005298614501953125,"words":[]},{"start":3796.08,"end":3799.8399999999997,"text":" thoughts over the weekend and i know you are as well and we ask the listener and do that and do the","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14557291666666666,"compression_ratio":1.866412213740458,"no_speech_prob":0.005298614501953125,"words":[]},{"start":3799.84,"end":3806.4,"text":" two yep absolutely thanks again for coming on hisee whenever ryan needs to take a break i really","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.22271825396825398,"compression_ratio":1.815884476534296,"no_speech_prob":0.007694244384765625,"words":[]},{"start":3806.4,"end":3809.84,"text":" appreciate it you're uh a gigabrain that i appreciate we bring it on the show and talking about the","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.22271825396825398,"compression_ratio":1.815884476534296,"no_speech_prob":0.007694244384765625,"words":[]},{"start":3809.84,"end":3814.1600000000003,"text":" year the week's in the week and crypto for me my pleasure man thanks for having me i'm sure you're","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.22271825396825398,"compression_ratio":1.815884476534296,"no_speech_prob":0.007694244384765625,"words":[]},{"start":3814.1600000000003,"end":3818.4,"text":" gonna go talk about some of these subjects on your own podcasts as well where can people go to go find","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.22271825396825398,"compression_ratio":1.815884476534296,"no_speech_prob":0.007694244384765625,"words":[]},{"start":3818.4,"end":3824.96,"text":" those takes people can find me uh just google my name uh i'm hasib h a s e b and you can find my twitter","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.22271825396825398,"compression_ratio":1.815884476534296,"no_speech_prob":0.007694244384765625,"words":[]},{"start":3825.76,"end":3830.16,"text":" we post a podcast roughly once a week on the on-chain feed so i'm going to find us on the","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.23319892473118278,"compression_ratio":1.6814159292035398,"no_speech_prob":0.0126190185546875,"words":[]},{"start":3830.16,"end":3833.36,"text":" shopping block the shopping block is pretty good it's one of my favorites to see thank you so much","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.23319892473118278,"compression_ratio":1.6814159292035398,"no_speech_prob":0.0126190185546875,"words":[]},{"start":3833.36,"end":3837.6,"text":" banquet station you guys know the deal crypto is risky can lose what you put in but nonetheless we","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.23319892473118278,"compression_ratio":1.6814159292035398,"no_speech_prob":0.0126190185546875,"words":[]},{"start":3837.6,"end":3842.16,"text":" are headed west this is frontier it's not for everyone but we are glad you're with us on the","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.23319892473118278,"compression_ratio":1.6814159292035398,"no_speech_prob":0.0126190185546875,"words":[]},{"start":3842.16,"end":3845.2,"text":" banquet yesterday thanks a lot","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-1.1435546875,"compression_ratio":0.7894736842105263,"no_speech_prob":0.0306243896484375,"words":[]}],"vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:16.800\n It's been a long week, but happy to spend it with you.\n\n2\n00:00:16.800 --> 00:00:21.820\n It has been a long week, it was starting decently quiet, but I think today specifically\n\n3\n00:00:21.820 --> 00:00:27.240\n it got pretty loud with this SEC speech, the SEC is introducing Project Crypto.\n\n4\n00:00:27.240 --> 00:00:31.760\n I thought it was absolutely incredible, definitely a capstone for everything that's been going\n\n5\n00:00:31.760 --> 00:00:32.760\n on in this administration.\n\n6\n00:00:32.760 --> 00:00:33.760\n Yeah.\n\n7\n00:00:33.760 --> 00:00:36.960\n Before we get into the Project Crypto, we're going to talk about Ethereum's birthday.\n\n8\n00:00:36.960 --> 00:00:40.719\n We'll talk about some of the ETH Treasury companies that are coming online, the Roman\n\n9\n00:00:40.719 --> 00:00:41.960\n Storm case, as well.\n\n10\n00:00:41.960 --> 00:00:44.960\n We are all waiting with baiting breath, but we just learned that the verdict is not going\n\n11\n00:00:44.960 --> 00:00:48.600\n to be heard until at least Monday at the earliest.\n\n12\n00:00:48.600 --> 00:00:52.240\n There's pump versus Zora things to talk about, but let's go ahead and start with Ethereum's\n\n13\n00:00:52.240 --> 00:00:53.240\n birthday.\n\n14\n00:00:53.240 --> 00:00:55.240\n Happy 10th birthday to Ethereum.\n\n15\n00:00:55.240 --> 00:01:00.660\n There was just a flurry of activity going around Ethereum Twitter, just all these different\n\n16\n00:01:00.660 --> 00:01:05.799\n people talking about their lore with Ethereum, because now that Ethereum is 10 years old,\n\n17\n00:01:05.799 --> 00:01:09.560\n all these different Ethereum community members have different walks of life, different stories\n\n18\n00:01:09.560 --> 00:01:10.560\n to tell.\n\n19\n00:01:10.560 --> 00:01:13.560\n I said, how Ethereum has impacted their life.\n\n20\n00:01:13.560 --> 00:01:18.020\n Something I thought was pretty cool was this Believing Something campaign, which was a\n\n21\n00:01:18.020 --> 00:01:21.520\n marketing campaign, which I thought was organized by the Ethereum Foundation.\n\n22\n00:01:21.519 --> 00:01:22.519\n I was sick.\n\n23\n00:01:22.519 --> 00:01:26.519\n This is the first ever Ethereum foundation marketing push.\n\n24\n00:01:26.519 --> 00:01:31.679\n Turns out it was actually just an engaged community member who just thought of, hey, let's\n\n25\n00:01:31.679 --> 00:01:37.159\n get a few companies to do this Believing Something, but the ETH in something is replaced\n\n26\n00:01:37.159 --> 00:01:38.679\n by the ETH logo.\n\n27\n00:01:38.679 --> 00:01:44.159\n Everyone can brand it as their respective company, and on the 10th birthday, we'll just\n\n28\n00:01:44.159 --> 00:01:45.439\n get people to tweet this out.\n\n29\n00:01:45.439 --> 00:01:51.280\n I think maybe 10 organizations were in there with it to in order to kickstart this thing,\n\n30\n00:01:51.840 --> 00:01:57.000\n the brand itself, the graphic itself, was simple enough that the designers of respective\n\n31\n00:01:57.000 --> 00:02:00.799\n companies could all get together, and it turned out to be, I think Ethereum is the best\n\n32\n00:02:00.799 --> 00:02:02.320\n marketing push ever.\n\n33\n00:02:02.320 --> 00:02:06.480\n Anyways, happy new 10th birthday to Ethereum, Hissy, what were your thoughts on anything\n\n34\n00:02:06.480 --> 00:02:08.599\n you did that was special, what do you think?\n\n35\n00:02:08.599 --> 00:02:12.759\n It was really hard-warming to see all the stories about Ethereum early days and looking\n\n36\n00:02:12.759 --> 00:02:17.199\n at some of the core devs who were reflecting on the journey that Ethereum has been on.\n\n37\n00:02:17.200 --> 00:02:21.440\n I got to be honest though, one, I hate these anniversary-type things.\n\n38\n00:02:21.440 --> 00:02:23.280\n I think it's just kind of the way that I'm built.\n\n39\n00:02:23.280 --> 00:02:25.280\n Anniversary of the big white paper anniversary.\n\n40\n00:02:25.280 --> 00:02:26.280\n Yeah.\n\n41\n00:02:26.280 --> 00:02:27.280\n These kinds of things.\n\n42\n00:02:27.280 --> 00:02:29.520\n You always get journalists hitting you up, you're like, what's your, do you have comments\n\n43\n00:02:29.520 --> 00:02:33.320\n on the fact that X has just turned X many years old?\n\n44\n00:02:33.320 --> 00:02:35.120\n And I'm, no, I don't have any comments.\n\n45\n00:02:35.120 --> 00:02:36.120\n I didn't have any last year.\n\n46\n00:02:36.120 --> 00:02:38.080\n I don't have any this year.\n\n47\n00:02:38.080 --> 00:02:44.280\n So I got an LLM to write something that somebody asked me to give a statement.\n\n48\n00:02:44.759 --> 00:02:49.080\n To be honest, I think the fact that, I don't mean to be a buzzkill, but the fact that the\n\n49\n00:02:49.080 --> 00:02:54.759\n Roman storm case was going to closing arguments yesterday made it hard for me to feel very\n\n50\n00:02:54.759 --> 00:02:55.759\n celebratory.\n\n51\n00:02:55.759 --> 00:03:02.520\n There was actually a tweet that David Morris highlighted yesterday that he just learned\n\n52\n00:03:02.520 --> 00:03:10.080\n that the beacon chain for Ethereum was actually deployed from the tornado cash contracts.\n\n53\n00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:14.800\n And so, tornado cash itself is kind of forever enshrined in the history of Ethereum.\n\n54\n00:03:14.800 --> 00:03:19.600\n And so, there's a lot that rise on this, on this, this trial.\n\n55\n00:03:19.600 --> 00:03:23.080\n And that was, I was, I was thinking like it's hard to celebrate when there's such a\n\n56\n00:03:23.080 --> 00:03:27.880\n big question kind of weighing over the industry because the cypher punk movement that led\n\n57\n00:03:27.880 --> 00:03:31.760\n to Ethereum, the encapsulation of that really is the case of Roman storm.\n\n58\n00:03:31.760 --> 00:03:33.560\n Yeah, here's a, here's a said tweet.\n\n59\n00:03:33.560 --> 00:03:36.840\n Y'all, I was just notified of something mind-boggling in the current context.\n\n60\n00:03:36.840 --> 00:03:42.520\n The beacon chain contract for all state teeth was deployed by an address funded by tornado\n\n61\n00:03:42.520 --> 00:03:43.520\n cash.\n\n62\n00:03:43.520 --> 00:03:47.680\n And like Roman was just like one, one of the many developers who, you know, would otherwise\n\n63\n00:03:47.680 --> 00:03:53.800\n be celebrating ETH's 10th birthday with a story of his own about how Ethereum changed his\n\n64\n00:03:53.800 --> 00:03:56.640\n life and how he decided to become an open source contract developer.\n\n65\n00:03:56.640 --> 00:04:01.280\n I remember there was a recent tweet from Vitalik Udren who donated a bunch of money to\n\n66\n00:04:01.280 --> 00:04:06.199\n Roman storm's case and said something to the effect of, oh, I actually encouraged you\n\n67\n00:04:06.280 --> 00:04:09.840\n to go create this application, this privacy application.\n\n68\n00:04:09.840 --> 00:04:13.760\n And so I would, it would be dishonorable if I did not support you in your time of need\n\n69\n00:04:13.760 --> 00:04:17.680\n and then came with like a, a, a wavy donation to Roman storm.\n\n70\n00:04:17.680 --> 00:04:20.360\n So yeah, like there's a bunch of mixed feelings I would say going around.\n\n71\n00:04:20.360 --> 00:04:24.920\n We're going to be bullish in a second talking about the SEC's project crypto where we're\n\n72\n00:04:24.920 --> 00:04:27.960\n reminiscent and nostalgic of talking about Ethereum's 10th birthday.\n\n73\n00:04:27.960 --> 00:04:31.920\n But like, I would agree with you, there is this big cloud overhanging us.\n\n74\n00:04:31.920 --> 00:04:35.040\n As Roman, Roman storm's jury goes home for the weekend.\n\n75\n00:04:35.040 --> 00:04:39.000\n They're going to take Friday off, which means, which means Roman doesn't know the outcome\n\n76\n00:04:39.000 --> 00:04:43.280\n of his case for the next three days, 72 hours.\n\n77\n00:04:43.280 --> 00:04:47.520\n So I can't imagine just the pressure that is, that is weighing on him right now.\n\n78\n00:04:47.520 --> 00:04:50.280\n Yeah, there's a, there's a storm in New York.\n\n79\n00:04:50.280 --> 00:04:53.480\n I hope everybody who's in New York is going to be staying safe.\n\n80\n00:04:53.480 --> 00:04:59.000\n But it was in a way almost poetic that at the same time that, you know, Roman storm's trial\n\n81\n00:04:59.000 --> 00:05:00.000\n is undergoing.\n\n82\n00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:02.920\n There's a storm that's better in New York.\n\n83\n00:05:02.920 --> 00:05:05.800\n And different words, well, I guess it's part of the, part of the birthday.\n\n84\n00:05:05.800 --> 00:05:09.480\n It was pretty cool to see Ethereum being celebrated at the NASDAQ.\n\n85\n00:05:09.480 --> 00:05:14.000\n So Joseph Lubin and SBET and consensus and a bunch of other people I was there included.\n\n86\n00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:17.759\n We're all, we were all down there at the NASDAQ ringing the closing bell.\n\n87\n00:05:17.759 --> 00:05:21.520\n And so it was pretty cool to see 10 years of Ethereum being broadcasted in the center\n\n88\n00:05:21.520 --> 00:05:23.400\n of, of, of Times Square.\n\n89\n00:05:23.400 --> 00:05:29.720\n And so if the sentiment was in crypto, how it was two years ago, three years ago, with\n\n90\n00:05:29.720 --> 00:05:31.480\n the Gary Gensel administration.\n\n91\n00:05:31.480 --> 00:05:36.360\n I don't think the 10 years of Ethereum would have been that powerful for Trad5, but it\n\n92\n00:05:36.360 --> 00:05:42.280\n is now a story that Trad5 can kind of lean into right after the coin base has done particularly\n\n93\n00:05:42.280 --> 00:05:43.280\n well.\n\n94\n00:05:43.280 --> 00:05:46.000\n Robin is issuing a layer two on Ethereum.\n\n95\n00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:50.960\n The circle IPO has on gangbessers and, you know, Wall Street is just into Ethereum right\n\n96\n00:05:50.960 --> 00:05:52.680\n now into crypto.\n\n97\n00:05:52.680 --> 00:05:58.800\n The 10 year anniversary of Ethereum just has a better halo around it and Trad5 terms.\n\n98\n00:05:58.800 --> 00:06:02.000\n And I'm grateful for that at the very least.\n\n99\n00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:04.480\n Getting into double digits, I think, is special.\n\n100\n00:06:04.480 --> 00:06:09.800\n One thing that I often tell people when I'm telling them why crypto is now kind of inevitable\n\n101\n00:06:09.800 --> 00:06:14.280\n for the next generation of people thinking about their, their capital allocations is that\n\n102\n00:06:14.280 --> 00:06:20.199\n people who are entering into college today, you know, if you're, you know, 19, 20, 21,\n\n103\n00:06:20.199 --> 00:06:23.080\n you don't remember a time before Bitcoin existed.\n\n104\n00:06:23.080 --> 00:06:24.080\n Right.\n\n105\n00:06:24.080 --> 00:06:25.480\n Bitcoin was created 18 years ago.\n\n106\n00:06:25.640 --> 00:06:27.439\n Ethereum now is 10 years old.\n\n107\n00:06:27.439 --> 00:06:31.160\n That means in five years, Ethereum is going to be 15 years old and Bitcoin is going to\n\n108\n00:06:31.160 --> 00:06:35.240\n be, you know, I guess that would be 23.\n\n109\n00:06:35.240 --> 00:06:39.240\n And really, what that means is that there's going to be generation that doesn't remember\n\n110\n00:06:39.240 --> 00:06:41.319\n time before Ethereum was created.\n\n111\n00:06:41.319 --> 00:06:44.800\n And the way in which we think about, wow, you know, Bitcoin was just a macular conception.\n\n112\n00:06:44.800 --> 00:06:47.600\n It's the first, you know, it's never going to have everything is always going to be less\n\n113\n00:06:47.600 --> 00:06:48.600\n Lindy than Bitcoin.\n\n114\n00:06:48.600 --> 00:06:51.160\n And I think that to some extent, obviously, that's true.\n\n115\n00:06:51.160 --> 00:06:56.240\n But it's also true that the delta between these assets gets smaller and smaller the older\n\n116\n00:06:56.240 --> 00:06:57.240\n they are.\n\n117\n00:06:57.240 --> 00:06:58.240\n Right.\n\n118\n00:06:58.240 --> 00:07:01.320\n And so right now, we think of like, oh, you know, Salana is like this new thing and Ethereum\n\n119\n00:07:01.320 --> 00:07:04.560\n is the old thing and, you know, can the new thing ever displace the old thing because the\n\n120\n00:07:04.560 --> 00:07:05.720\n old thing is more Lindy.\n\n121\n00:07:05.720 --> 00:07:10.520\n You know, right now, Salana is what caught five years old, Ethereum is 10 years old.\n\n122\n00:07:10.520 --> 00:07:13.160\n So Ethereum is twice as old as Salana.\n\n123\n00:07:13.160 --> 00:07:17.200\n And that feels right now like, wow, that's so much more history and it's so much more\n\n124\n00:07:17.199 --> 00:07:21.079\n august by the fact that it's been around for 10 years.\n\n125\n00:07:21.079 --> 00:07:25.360\n But at the same time, like, you know, give it another 10 years and Salana will be 15 years\n\n126\n00:07:25.360 --> 00:07:26.360\n old.\n\n127\n00:07:26.360 --> 00:07:27.360\n Ethereum will be 20 years old.\n\n128\n00:07:27.360 --> 00:07:31.599\n And they're not going to feel so different in enough time.\n\n129\n00:07:31.599 --> 00:07:35.800\n So in addition to it being Ethereum's 10 year birthday, it's 10 years old.\n\n130\n00:07:35.800 --> 00:07:39.360\n It's also got 10 years of consecutive uptime.\n\n131\n00:07:39.360 --> 00:07:45.480\n And when you contrast that with Salana's 1.5 years of consecutive time, that feels a little\n\n132\n00:07:45.480 --> 00:07:47.480\n bit of a different story.\n\n133\n00:07:47.480 --> 00:07:48.480\n And so I will.\n\n134\n00:07:48.480 --> 00:07:49.480\n Brought to you by Bankless.\n\n135\n00:07:49.480 --> 00:07:51.480\n A little bit on Brought to you by Bankless, that's right.\n\n136\n00:07:51.480 --> 00:07:52.480\n That's right.\n\n137\n00:07:52.480 --> 00:07:53.480\n Nice.\n\n138\n00:07:53.480 --> 00:07:54.480\n Nice.\n\n139\n00:07:54.480 --> 00:07:56.480\n It's not entirely equivalent.\n\n140\n00:07:56.480 --> 00:07:57.480\n All right.\n\n141\n00:07:57.480 --> 00:07:58.480\n Let's see if it's the project crypto.\n\n142\n00:07:58.480 --> 00:07:59.480\n All right.\n\n143\n00:07:59.480 --> 00:08:03.759\n Here's a beat out of his seed saying the SEC's new project crypto is the most bullish thing\n\n144\n00:08:03.759 --> 00:08:06.280\n I've seen in a long time from a regulator.\n\n145\n00:08:06.280 --> 00:08:07.280\n Read the speed.\n\n146\n00:08:07.280 --> 00:08:08.280\n It's incredible.\n\n147\n00:08:08.280 --> 00:08:09.280\n Almost all tokens are not securities.\n\n148\n00:08:09.280 --> 00:08:13.200\n They want to discourage decentralization and Kubaki theater.\n\n149\n00:08:13.199 --> 00:08:14.199\n I don't know that word.\n\n150\n00:08:14.199 --> 00:08:15.199\n Haseeb Kubaki.\n\n151\n00:08:15.199 --> 00:08:16.199\n Kubaki theater.\n\n152\n00:08:16.199 --> 00:08:17.199\n Excuse me.\n\n153\n00:08:17.199 --> 00:08:21.199\n American should not get excluded by IP and VPN blocks.\n\n154\n00:08:21.199 --> 00:08:23.199\n Let me just get into some of the details here.\n\n155\n00:08:23.199 --> 00:08:25.199\n So this is a speech from Paul Atkins.\n\n156\n00:08:25.199 --> 00:08:26.199\n It's on the website.\n\n157\n00:08:26.199 --> 00:08:28.199\n There's a link in the show notes so you can go read it.\n\n158\n00:08:28.199 --> 00:08:30.199\n And there are five things.\n\n159\n00:08:30.199 --> 00:08:34.200\n Five main points that the SEC that Paul specifically wants to lay down.\n\n160\n00:08:34.200 --> 00:08:39.200\n I want to take some time actually with you Haseeb and go one by one through those things.\n\n161\n00:08:39.200 --> 00:08:44.200\n Before he gets to those five things, he lays up the context and a little bit of the history\n\n162\n00:08:44.200 --> 00:08:49.200\n of the SEC and he really just does a very good job going through a little bit of the history.\n\n163\n00:08:49.200 --> 00:08:52.440\n I actually enjoy this kind of as just a history lesson.\n\n164\n00:08:52.440 --> 00:08:58.200\n He talks about before the electrification of the American stock market, these paper certificates\n\n165\n00:08:58.200 --> 00:09:03.200\n had to be physically shipped up and down Wall Street and that's how they were being\n\n166\n00:09:03.200 --> 00:09:04.200\n traded.\n\n167\n00:09:04.200 --> 00:09:05.200\n They were buying and selling them.\n\n168\n00:09:05.200 --> 00:09:09.200\n They were going to be shipped around physically by people with little baskets running around Wall Street.\n\n169\n00:09:09.200 --> 00:09:14.200\n And apparently I didn't know this, but on Wednesday the stock market would close so that these\n\n170\n00:09:14.200 --> 00:09:18.200\n like paper like paper pushers could catch up with the trades being made.\n\n171\n00:09:18.200 --> 00:09:23.200\n And so the stock market on Monday and Tuesday would trade and there was enough volume that\n\n172\n00:09:23.200 --> 00:09:27.200\n all of a sudden there's a lag of all of these stocks certificates being traded.\n\n173\n00:09:27.200 --> 00:09:30.200\n And so they had to shut down the stock market on Wednesday so they could catch up.\n\n174\n00:09:30.200 --> 00:09:34.200\n And Paul, Paul Atkins highlights this, here's a quote.\n\n175\n00:09:34.200 --> 00:09:39.200\n The breakdown over an antiquated system was described by the SEC chairman at the time as\n\n176\n00:09:39.200 --> 00:09:44.200\n the most prolonged and severe crisis in the securities industry in 40 years.\n\n177\n00:09:44.200 --> 00:09:47.200\n Firms failed, investor confidence plummeted.\n\n178\n00:09:47.200 --> 00:09:55.200\n He uses this metaphor to demonstrate why America's financial markets need to move on chain proactively\n\n179\n00:09:55.200 --> 00:09:58.200\n rather than retroactively, at least that's my interpretation.\n\n180\n00:09:58.200 --> 00:10:00.200\n Here's another quote from Paul.\n\n181\n00:10:00.200 --> 00:10:06.200\n So today I would like the world to go on notice that under my leadership the SEC will not stand by idly\n\n182\n00:10:06.200 --> 00:10:11.200\n and watch innovations develop overseas while our capital markets remain stagnant.\n\n183\n00:10:11.200 --> 00:10:15.200\n To achieve President Trump's vision of making America the crypto capital of the world,\n\n184\n00:10:15.200 --> 00:10:20.200\n yes, SEC much holistically consider the potential benefits and risks of moving our markets\n\n185\n00:10:20.200 --> 00:10:23.200\n from an on chain off chain environment to an on chain one.\n\n186\n00:10:23.200 --> 00:10:27.200\n We are at the threshold of a new era in the history of our markets.\n\n187\n00:10:27.200 --> 00:10:29.200\n As I mentioned earlier today, do you hear that storm?\n\n188\n00:10:29.200 --> 00:10:31.200\n Do you hear that lightning hissing?\n\n189\n00:10:31.200 --> 00:10:32.200\n Yeah, that's crazy.\n\n190\n00:10:32.200 --> 00:10:33.200\n Coming through my microphone.\n\n191\n00:10:33.200 --> 00:10:35.200\n Yeah, that's what we're talking about.\n\n192\n00:10:35.200 --> 00:10:36.200\n Finishing the quote.\n\n193\n00:10:36.200 --> 00:10:39.200\n As I mentioned earlier today, I'm announcing the launch of Project Crypto,\n\n194\n00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:43.200\n a commission-wide initiative to modernize the securities, rules, and regulations\n\n195\n00:10:43.200 --> 00:10:46.200\n to enable America's financial markets to move on chain.\n\n196\n00:10:46.200 --> 00:10:48.200\n Okay, so like I said, before we get into the five things,\n\n197\n00:10:48.200 --> 00:10:52.200\n vibe check about this setup and the speech as a whole.\n\n198\n00:10:52.200 --> 00:10:54.200\n I mean, it's pretty dramatic.\n\n199\n00:10:54.200 --> 00:10:59.200\n It's very clear that Paul Atkins, like he's been brought in to the SEC\n\n200\n00:10:59.200 --> 00:11:03.200\n and his whole job is to do this massive overhaul from the Gensere era.\n\n201\n00:11:03.200 --> 00:11:06.200\n And he immediately opens with giving some historical context,\n\n202\n00:11:06.200 --> 00:11:11.200\n but also distancing himself from his predecessor and making very clear\n\n203\n00:11:11.200 --> 00:11:13.200\n this is a new day for the SEC.\n\n204\n00:11:13.200 --> 00:11:17.200\n I thought it was a very, very powerful setup for what is really,\n\n205\n00:11:17.200 --> 00:11:21.200\n I think probably the first really substantial policy-setting speech\n\n206\n00:11:21.200 --> 00:11:25.200\n that Atkins has given for the new SEC since he's come in.\n\n207\n00:11:25.200 --> 00:11:29.200\n Let's get into the first big highlight that he said.\n\n208\n00:11:29.200 --> 00:11:35.200\n So quote, first, we will bring crypto asset distribution back to America.\n\n209\n00:11:35.200 --> 00:11:37.200\n My interpretation of this is when crypto assets are created\n\n210\n00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:41.200\n when they're minted, when they're, you know, air drop or whatever.\n\n211\n00:11:41.200 --> 00:11:45.200\n We want to do that onshore in a way that makes everyone feel good\n\n212\n00:11:45.200 --> 00:11:47.200\n and the capital in your stays onshore.\n\n213\n00:11:47.200 --> 00:11:50.200\n So this is trying to move away from like the foundation model,\n\n214\n00:11:50.200 --> 00:11:53.200\n allowing startups themselves to be the asset issuers\n\n215\n00:11:53.200 --> 00:11:55.200\n and those startups be inside the United States.\n\n216\n00:11:55.200 --> 00:11:57.200\n That's my takeaway from this section.\n\n217\n00:11:57.200 --> 00:11:59.200\n What's your big takeaway here?\n\n218\n00:11:59.200 --> 00:12:00.200\n Yeah, I agree with that.\n\n219\n00:12:00.200 --> 00:12:03.200\n I think, you know, when I say the decentralization kabuki theater,\n\n220\n00:12:03.200 --> 00:12:06.200\n that's what I'm referring to is like people setting up a labs locally\n\n221\n00:12:06.200 --> 00:12:10.200\n and then getting a Singapore or a Swiss foundation that has a separate board\n\n222\n00:12:10.200 --> 00:12:12.200\n that has a this or that.\n\n223\n00:12:12.200 --> 00:12:16.200\n And he's like, look, why are we wasting so much time and energy on that stuff?\n\n224\n00:12:16.200 --> 00:12:20.200\n Remember, Paul Atkins is an advisor to reserve protocol,\n\n225\n00:12:20.200 --> 00:12:22.200\n which is a stablecoin.\n\n226\n00:12:22.200 --> 00:12:24.200\n So he's seen this firsthand.\n\n227\n00:12:24.200 --> 00:12:25.200\n He knows what that's like.\n\n228\n00:12:25.200 --> 00:12:30.200\n He sees the amount of just kind of stupid wheel-turning that people have to do\n\n229\n00:12:30.200 --> 00:12:32.200\n in order to have some nominal compliance with the law.\n\n230\n00:12:32.200 --> 00:12:34.200\n We said, well, how would that law then?\n\n231\n00:12:34.200 --> 00:12:36.200\n Let's just like make sure that entrepreneurs are doing the right thing.\n\n232\n00:12:36.200 --> 00:12:37.200\n So he gets it.\n\n233\n00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:40.200\n The second one, second to achieve the president's goals\n\n234\n00:12:40.200 --> 00:12:44.200\n is incumbent on the SEC to ensure the market participants have maximum choice\n\n235\n00:12:44.200 --> 00:12:47.200\n when and where to custody and trade crypto assets.\n\n236\n00:12:47.200 --> 00:12:50.200\n I've said before, the right to self-custody of one's private property\n\n237\n00:12:50.200 --> 00:12:52.200\n is a core American value.\n\n238\n00:12:52.200 --> 00:12:55.200\n I think this one is just a nail, a further nail in the coffin\n\n239\n00:12:55.200 --> 00:12:57.200\n of Operation Shookpoint 2.0.\n\n240\n00:12:57.200 --> 00:12:59.200\n Is that kind of the main reasoning here?\n\n241\n00:12:59.200 --> 00:13:00.200\n That's a part of it.\n\n242\n00:13:00.200 --> 00:13:03.200\n It's also the president has stated many times that he wants to protect\n\n243\n00:13:03.200 --> 00:13:05.200\n the rights of self-custody.\n\n244\n00:13:06.200 --> 00:13:10.200\n There was some guidance if you remember from the SEC SAP 121,\n\n245\n00:13:10.200 --> 00:13:13.200\n which got very famously litigated last year\n\n246\n00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:16.200\n about allowing banks to custody crypto.\n\n247\n00:13:16.200 --> 00:13:19.200\n Basically, I think what he's saying here is that, look,\n\n248\n00:13:19.200 --> 00:13:21.200\n we're not going to get in the way of custody,\n\n249\n00:13:21.200 --> 00:13:24.200\n whether it's self-custody or whether it's custody on behalf of banks.\n\n250\n00:13:24.200 --> 00:13:26.200\n Let's just get the right answers.\n\n251\n00:13:26.200 --> 00:13:28.200\n Let's not be prescriptive about it.\n\n252\n00:13:28.200 --> 00:13:33.200\n Yeah, so we're getting rid of the whole hosted versus un-hosted wallet\n\n253\n00:13:33.200 --> 00:13:37.200\n issue, and we're just saying, hey, individuals can host crypto assets.\n\n254\n00:13:37.200 --> 00:13:39.200\n Stop talking about it.\n\n255\n00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:41.200\n That's just going to be the way that it is.\n\n256\n00:13:41.200 --> 00:13:42.200\n Exactly.\n\n257\n00:13:42.200 --> 00:13:45.200\n I'm a huge fan, obviously, as somebody with a podcast called Bankless.\n\n258\n00:13:45.200 --> 00:13:49.200\n Third, a key priority of my chairmanship is to allow market participants\n\n259\n00:13:49.200 --> 00:13:52.200\n to innovate with, quote, super apps.\n\n260\n00:13:52.200 --> 00:13:54.200\n I am often asked, what do you mean by a super app?\n\n261\n00:13:54.200 --> 00:13:58.200\n Plain and simple securities intermediaries should be able to go to offer\n\n262\n00:13:58.200 --> 00:14:02.200\n a broad range of products and services under one roof with a single license.\n\n263\n00:14:02.200 --> 00:14:06.200\n A broker dealer with an alternative trading system should be able to offer trading\n\n264\n00:14:06.200 --> 00:14:10.200\n in a non-security crypto assets alongside crypto asset securities,\n\n265\n00:14:10.200 --> 00:14:15.200\n traditional securities, and other services like crypto asset staking and lending\n\n266\n00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:20.200\n without requiring 50 plus state licenses and multiple federal licenses.\n\n267\n00:14:20.200 --> 00:14:23.200\n Reading between the lines, I'm guessing this is whatever coin base is doing\n\n268\n00:14:23.200 --> 00:14:26.200\n is like a big benefit to them because they want to do securities.\n\n269\n00:14:26.200 --> 00:14:31.200\n I'm assuming Robinhood is also what's the vibe of this particular thing?\n\n270\n00:14:32.200 --> 00:14:34.200\n To me, that's simplifying licenses.\n\n271\n00:14:34.200 --> 00:14:37.200\n So everybody in crypto has always been very worried about,\n\n272\n00:14:37.200 --> 00:14:40.200\n do I have the right licenses to offer the product I'm offering?\n\n273\n00:14:40.200 --> 00:14:43.200\n And the answer from the SEC historically has been,\n\n274\n00:14:43.200 --> 00:14:45.200\n don't ask us.\n\n275\n00:14:45.200 --> 00:14:48.200\n We'll tell you later when we sue you whether or not you got the right licenses.\n\n276\n00:14:48.200 --> 00:14:52.200\n So this has also caused a lot of financial institutions and a lot of fintechs\n\n277\n00:14:52.200 --> 00:14:54.200\n to be very careful about offering crypto.\n\n278\n00:14:54.200 --> 00:14:55.200\n And we know why.\n\n279\n00:14:55.200 --> 00:14:57.200\n You know, Robinhood got sued, Coinbase got sued.\n\n280\n00:14:57.200 --> 00:15:00.200\n What they're saying here very clearly is that we're going to make it really easy\n\n281\n00:15:00.200 --> 00:15:02.200\n to understand what licenses you need.\n\n282\n00:15:02.200 --> 00:15:04.200\n And we're going to make it as few as possible.\n\n283\n00:15:04.200 --> 00:15:08.200\n And we are going to make it difficult for individual states to bring suits against you.\n\n284\n00:15:08.200 --> 00:15:11.200\n Because of course, like one of the difficulties of building the next coin base\n\n285\n00:15:11.200 --> 00:15:14.200\n and competing with Coinbase is that how are you going to get licenses\n\n286\n00:15:14.200 --> 00:15:16.200\n in all the states that Coinbase has licensed operating in?\n\n287\n00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:19.200\n That's a really part of doing business in America.\n\n288\n00:15:19.200 --> 00:15:23.200\n When you know, federal wide licensing makes it really easy to just say,\n\n289\n00:15:23.200 --> 00:15:25.200\n look, I got the one license.\n\n290\n00:15:25.200 --> 00:15:27.200\n Now I can operate in America and of story.\n\n291\n00:15:27.200 --> 00:15:28.200\n Amazing.\n\n292\n00:15:28.200 --> 00:15:29.200\n Okay.\n\n293\n00:15:29.200 --> 00:15:30.200\n Yeah.\n\n294\n00:15:30.200 --> 00:15:32.200\n So I live in New York.\n\n295\n00:15:32.200 --> 00:15:35.200\n There's a number of crypto services that I just don't have access to\n\n296\n00:15:35.200 --> 00:15:37.200\n because New York is apparently really hard to get a license to.\n\n297\n00:15:37.200 --> 00:15:38.200\n So that would be gone.\n\n298\n00:15:38.200 --> 00:15:39.200\n I would assume.\n\n299\n00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:42.200\n I mean, the SEC can't do that in one fell swoop,\n\n300\n00:15:42.200 --> 00:15:45.200\n but they can certainly try and start pushing in that direction.\n\n301\n00:15:45.200 --> 00:15:46.200\n Okay.\n\n302\n00:15:46.200 --> 00:15:48.200\n And then the fourth one.\n\n303\n00:15:48.200 --> 00:15:52.200\n Fourth, I have directed the commission staff to update and created agency rules\n\n304\n00:15:52.200 --> 00:15:56.200\n and regulations to unleash the potential of on-chain software systems\n\n305\n00:15:56.200 --> 00:15:58.200\n in our securities markets.\n\n306\n00:15:58.200 --> 00:16:00.200\n On-chain software comes in many shapes and sizes.\n\n307\n00:16:00.200 --> 00:16:04.200\n Some of these systems are truly decentralized and not operated by any intermediary.\n\n308\n00:16:04.200 --> 00:16:07.200\n They're on-chain software systems have an operator.\n\n309\n00:16:07.200 --> 00:16:12.200\n Both types of on-chain software should have a place within our financial markets.\n\n310\n00:16:12.200 --> 00:16:14.200\n What's the impact of this one?\n\n311\n00:16:14.200 --> 00:16:19.200\n So this is all about the idea that, you know, you do not need to pretend\n\n312\n00:16:19.200 --> 00:16:24.200\n to be running a decentralized system in order to be able to operate in crypto.\n\n313\n00:16:24.200 --> 00:16:27.200\n If it's centralized or if it's a point to centralization, that's okay.\n\n314\n00:16:27.200 --> 00:16:29.200\n You can operate on equal footing.\n\n315\n00:16:29.200 --> 00:16:32.200\n There might be different regulatory requirements, but it's not a no.\n\n316\n00:16:32.200 --> 00:16:36.200\n It's a, okay, here are the rules for this side, here are the rules for that side.\n\n317\n00:16:36.200 --> 00:16:40.200\n What we want to make very clear is that, you know, under the previous administration,\n\n318\n00:16:40.200 --> 00:16:43.200\n it was very unclear if Uniswap is allowed to exist.\n\n319\n00:16:43.200 --> 00:16:47.200\n And everything the previous SEC was doing was looking at something like Uniswap,\n\n320\n00:16:47.200 --> 00:16:49.200\n which is fully on-chain, fully decentralized and said,\n\n321\n00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:56.200\n either one, this is breaking the rules, or two, we're going to find individual vectors of centralization\n\n322\n00:16:56.200 --> 00:17:00.200\n and say, oh, you run a website, you run a VPN, you run a this thing, you run a that thing,\n\n323\n00:17:00.200 --> 00:17:02.200\n you have, you have, you know, indexers.\n\n324\n00:17:02.200 --> 00:17:06.200\n This is a point of centralization and that's how we're going to got to you, okay.\n\n325\n00:17:06.200 --> 00:17:10.200\n Here, he's saying very clearly, we're done with that.\n\n326\n00:17:10.200 --> 00:17:13.200\n You tell us clearly what you're doing, we'll tell you what rules you have to follow,\n\n327\n00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:15.200\n but both get to exist.\n\n328\n00:17:16.200 --> 00:17:20.200\n And I would imagine that this is particularly relevant to, like, lay it, for example,\n\n329\n00:17:20.200 --> 00:17:23.200\n just one example, is layer two is with a centralized sequencer.\n\n330\n00:17:23.200 --> 00:17:26.200\n There's been conversations of a layer two of the centralized sequencer,\n\n331\n00:17:26.200 --> 00:17:28.200\n it's never going to be Wall Street ready.\n\n332\n00:17:28.200 --> 00:17:30.200\n Well, Robinhood's definitely going to have a centralized sequencer,\n\n333\n00:17:30.200 --> 00:17:34.200\n and Robinhood's trying to use their chain to benefit their own products,\n\n334\n00:17:34.200 --> 00:17:36.200\n probably just straight in the Robinhood app.\n\n335\n00:17:36.200 --> 00:17:39.200\n Same thing with Coinbase, using Morpho on base, which again,\n\n336\n00:17:39.200 --> 00:17:43.200\n base has a centralized sequencer, and they're using it on the Coinbase front end.\n\n337\n00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:46.200\n Something like this, where the existence of a centralized sequencer\n\n338\n00:17:46.200 --> 00:17:50.200\n is just an irrelevant detail for whether it's compliant or not\n\n339\n00:17:50.200 --> 00:17:53.200\n for integration into some front end somewhere.\n\n340\n00:17:53.200 --> 00:17:55.200\n Well, so it's not an irrelevant detail.\n\n341\n00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:57.200\n And at the end of the day, there's a policy speech,\n\n342\n00:17:57.200 --> 00:18:00.200\n so we don't have a lot of detail here about what exactly he means,\n\n343\n00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:03.200\n but it does mean that there's probably going to be some framework\n\n344\n00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:05.200\n into which something like base fits.\n\n345\n00:18:05.200 --> 00:18:08.200\n One could have imagined, you know, a couple of years ago,\n\n346\n00:18:08.200 --> 00:18:12.200\n that maybe what base is doing is just illegal.\n\n347\n00:18:12.200 --> 00:18:14.200\n And why is it just illegal? Like, well, you know,\n\n348\n00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:16.200\n Coinbase is running the sequencer.\n\n349\n00:18:16.200 --> 00:18:18.200\n They could decide to stop the transactions if they wanted.\n\n350\n00:18:18.200 --> 00:18:22.200\n Therefore, this is a broker dealer or a money transmitter or something.\n\n351\n00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:25.200\n It's doing all sorts of things that are somehow falling under, you know,\n\n352\n00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:27.200\n other financial laws.\n\n353\n00:18:27.200 --> 00:18:30.200\n I think what he's signaling here is that that's not our intention.\n\n354\n00:18:30.200 --> 00:18:34.200\n We want to allow for there to be these kind of mixed levels of centralization\n\n355\n00:18:34.200 --> 00:18:37.200\n that are not going to make you under some extremely onerous regime.\n\n356\n00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:38.200\n We're going to figure it out.\n\n357\n00:18:38.200 --> 00:18:40.200\n Give us some time, but we're going to figure it out.\n\n358\n00:18:40.200 --> 00:18:42.200\n But this is the spirit of what we're moving towards.\n\n359\n00:18:42.200 --> 00:18:43.200\n Mm-hmm.\n\n360\n00:18:43.200 --> 00:18:44.200\n And then the fifth, the last one.\n\n361\n00:18:44.200 --> 00:18:46.200\n Finally, innovation and entrepreneurialism\n\n362\n00:18:46.200 --> 00:18:48.200\n are the engines of the American economy.\n\n363\n00:18:48.200 --> 00:18:51.200\n President Trump has described America as a nation of builders.\n\n364\n00:18:51.200 --> 00:18:54.200\n Under my leadership, the commission will encourage our nation's builders\n\n365\n00:18:54.200 --> 00:18:58.200\n rather than constrain them with red tape and one size fits all rules.\n\n366\n00:18:58.200 --> 00:19:01.200\n While the commission is actively considering industry requests\n\n367\n00:19:01.200 --> 00:19:03.200\n that could jump sorry innovation actively,\n\n368\n00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:06.200\n we're also contemplating an innovation exemption\n\n369\n00:19:06.200 --> 00:19:09.200\n that would allow registrants and non-registrants\n\n370\n00:19:09.200 --> 00:19:12.200\n to quickly go to market with new businesses, business models,\n\n371\n00:19:12.200 --> 00:19:16.200\n and services that do not neatly fit within our existing rules and regulations.\n\n372\n00:19:16.200 --> 00:19:17.200\n What does this mean?\n\n373\n00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:18.200\n So this is huge.\n\n374\n00:19:18.200 --> 00:19:20.200\n Yeah, this is like very pro-starred.\n\n375\n00:19:20.200 --> 00:19:22.200\n I don't think anyone knows what it means.\n\n376\n00:19:22.200 --> 00:19:24.200\n It sounds like some kind of sandbox.\n\n377\n00:19:24.200 --> 00:19:26.200\n It sounds like you built a startup.\n\n378\n00:19:26.200 --> 00:19:30.200\n So you remember Hester Purs had this proposal for like a sandbox\n\n379\n00:19:30.200 --> 00:19:32.200\n of sort of pre-decentralization.\n\n380\n00:19:32.200 --> 00:19:34.200\n You're building a new crypto product.\n\n381\n00:19:34.200 --> 00:19:36.200\n It's not progressive decentralization.\n\n382\n00:19:36.200 --> 00:19:37.200\n They get it.\n\n383\n00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:38.200\n They know these terms.\n\n384\n00:19:38.200 --> 00:19:39.200\n It's not ready to be decentralized.\n\n385\n00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:41.200\n It doesn't make sense for the dev to really take a step back\n\n386\n00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:43.200\n or to lose admin key control.\n\n387\n00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:44.200\n That's okay.\n\n388\n00:19:44.200 --> 00:19:47.200\n We're going to give you two years or three years\n\n389\n00:19:47.200 --> 00:19:50.200\n to show that you can build this into decentralized product.\n\n390\n00:19:50.200 --> 00:19:52.200\n If you can't or if it doesn't make sense to make it decentralized,\n\n391\n00:19:52.200 --> 00:19:55.200\n there will be a regime under which you can get licensed\n\n392\n00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:57.200\n or follow certain rules or make certain disclosures\n\n393\n00:19:57.200 --> 00:20:00.200\n and operate in this semi-centralized fashion\n\n394\n00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:03.200\n that is still permissionless and still open.\n\n395\n00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:05.200\n Or if you can be fully decentralized,\n\n396\n00:20:06.200 --> 00:20:07.200\n you don't have to do anything.\n\n397\n00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:09.200\n You can be in this much, much lighter touch regime.\n\n398\n00:20:09.200 --> 00:20:11.200\n But either path is open to you.\n\n399\n00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:14.200\n But we're not going to make it such that you have to wait a year\n\n400\n00:20:14.200 --> 00:20:16.200\n and get licenses and pay millions of dollars\n\n401\n00:20:16.200 --> 00:20:19.200\n in order to go build a proof of concept as a crypto startup.\n\n402\n00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:21.200\n The idea that you have to be pseudonymous\n\n403\n00:20:21.200 --> 00:20:24.200\n or you have to hide or you have to go to overseas\n\n404\n00:20:24.200 --> 00:20:25.200\n and block Americans.\n\n405\n00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:29.200\n In order to go try out a new startup idea, that is over.\n\n406\n00:20:29.200 --> 00:20:31.200\n That is what Paul Atkins is signaling here.\n\n407\n00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:34.200\n So each of these five things that we went through,\n\n408\n00:20:34.200 --> 00:20:36.200\n I'm going to call them the trees.\n\n409\n00:20:36.200 --> 00:20:38.200\n I want to zoom out and talk about the forest.\n\n410\n00:20:38.200 --> 00:20:41.200\n There are some early ideas in crypto.\n\n411\n00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:43.200\n Even on Bitcoin talk forums,\n\n412\n00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:47.200\n you can go and find ideas about tokenized securities,\n\n413\n00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:50.200\n securities becoming tokens on a blockchain one day.\n\n414\n00:20:50.200 --> 00:20:53.200\n Or blockchain using blockchain technology\n\n415\n00:20:53.200 --> 00:20:55.200\n to settle securities transactions.\n\n416\n00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:57.200\n And that has always been the grand vision.\n\n417\n00:20:57.200 --> 00:20:59.200\n Shout out to Anthony Pompleyano in 2017\n\n418\n00:20:59.200 --> 00:21:01.200\n talking about tokenizing everything.\n\n419\n00:21:01.200 --> 00:21:02.200\n This is that kind of stuff.\n\n420\n00:21:02.200 --> 00:21:06.200\n And the initial bit of the speech from Paul Atkins,\n\n421\n00:21:06.200 --> 00:21:08.200\n he really talks about what happened\n\n422\n00:21:08.200 --> 00:21:11.200\n when the financial technology lagged the financial needs\n\n423\n00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:15.200\n of the industry in the pre-electronification era\n\n424\n00:21:15.200 --> 00:21:17.200\n of American stock market.\n\n425\n00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:20.200\n What I'm seeing here is these five things, these five trees.\n\n426\n00:21:20.200 --> 00:21:22.200\n When you zoom out and look at the forest,\n\n427\n00:21:22.200 --> 00:21:25.200\n he's trying to push American capital markets on chain.\n\n428\n00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:27.200\n That's my big takeaway. Would you agree?\n\n429\n00:21:27.200 --> 00:21:29.200\n I think that's absolutely right.\n\n430\n00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:33.200\n He also makes very clear the break from his predecessor.\n\n431\n00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:35.200\n He says early on in the speech,\n\n432\n00:21:35.200 --> 00:21:38.200\n most tokens are not securities.\n\n433\n00:21:38.200 --> 00:21:40.200\n Basically saying that this idea\n\n434\n00:21:40.200 --> 00:21:42.200\n that we all have to constantly live under fear\n\n435\n00:21:42.200 --> 00:21:45.200\n and like recite the how we test under our breath,\n\n436\n00:21:45.200 --> 00:21:46.200\n that's over.\n\n437\n00:21:46.200 --> 00:21:50.200\n And so that means if he's saying that most tokens are not securities,\n\n438\n00:21:50.200 --> 00:21:52.200\n of course there are many tokens that have revenue.\n\n439\n00:21:52.200 --> 00:21:54.200\n There are many tokens that have earnings.\n\n440\n00:21:54.200 --> 00:21:56.200\n We have done so much as an industry\n\n441\n00:21:57.200 --> 00:22:00.200\n to try to contort these protocols\n\n442\n00:22:00.200 --> 00:22:03.200\n and hide the ways in which they are economically valuable.\n\n443\n00:22:03.200 --> 00:22:06.200\n And he's saying, look, you don't need to do that anymore.\n\n444\n00:22:06.200 --> 00:22:07.200\n It's over.\n\n445\n00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:09.200\n The idea that you need to hide the team,\n\n446\n00:22:09.200 --> 00:22:10.200\n you need to hide the economics,\n\n447\n00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:14.200\n you need to hide the way in which obviously things that go on chain\n\n448\n00:22:14.200 --> 00:22:16.200\n are valuable and value accruing.\n\n449\n00:22:16.200 --> 00:22:18.200\n I think that to me is one of the biggest takeaways\n\n450\n00:22:18.200 --> 00:22:21.200\n that really changes the way you should be thinking about tokens,\n\n451\n00:22:21.200 --> 00:22:23.200\n is that we don't need to play pretend anymore.\n\n452\n00:22:24.200 --> 00:22:28.200\n Which is just, I think bullish for all of our sanity,\n\n453\n00:22:28.200 --> 00:22:29.200\n our piece of mind.\n\n454\n00:22:29.200 --> 00:22:32.200\n We can talk about these things as they are.\n\n455\n00:22:32.200 --> 00:22:36.200\n And like I said, not having to contort our ways\n\n456\n00:22:36.200 --> 00:22:38.200\n of just operating as an industry\n\n457\n00:22:38.200 --> 00:22:40.200\n so we can just be more transparent\n\n458\n00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:43.200\n and maybe a little bit less confusing to investors\n\n459\n00:22:43.200 --> 00:22:44.200\n and capital markets.\n\n460\n00:22:44.200 --> 00:22:45.200\n What happens next?\n\n461\n00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:46.200\n So we got this speech.\n\n462\n00:22:46.200 --> 00:22:48.200\n So what is just a speech?\n\n463\n00:22:48.200 --> 00:22:49.200\n What happens next?\n\n464\n00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:51.200\n How does this become real?\n\n465\n00:22:51.200 --> 00:22:54.200\n Well, so in order for this speech to become real,\n\n466\n00:22:54.200 --> 00:22:55.200\n there's two things.\n\n467\n00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:57.200\n Either one, we need rulemaking.\n\n468\n00:22:57.200 --> 00:22:59.200\n And two, there's obviously enforcement\n\n469\n00:22:59.200 --> 00:23:03.200\n as the other avenue through which policy becomes instantiated.\n\n470\n00:23:03.200 --> 00:23:05.200\n We've already seen them dropping a lot of cases.\n\n471\n00:23:05.200 --> 00:23:08.200\n So most of the big cases that the industry want to drop\n\n472\n00:23:08.200 --> 00:23:10.200\n have already been dropped by the SEC.\n\n473\n00:23:10.200 --> 00:23:12.200\n So there's nothing really more for them to do other than\n\n474\n00:23:12.200 --> 00:23:14.200\n through show, through enforcement actions,\n\n475\n00:23:14.200 --> 00:23:16.200\n what they like and what they don't like.\n\n476\n00:23:16.200 --> 00:23:19.200\n So we're going to see when they go after bad actors,\n\n477\n00:23:20.200 --> 00:23:22.200\n that shows like, hey, these are the things\n\n478\n00:23:22.200 --> 00:23:23.200\n that we're still punishing.\n\n479\n00:23:23.200 --> 00:23:27.200\n And when they have something that happens in broad daylight of,\n\n480\n00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:29.200\n let's say hyper-liquid doing buybacks,\n\n481\n00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:31.200\n if they don't go after hyper-liquid for doing buybacks,\n\n482\n00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:32.200\n they're saying, it's fine.\n\n483\n00:23:32.200 --> 00:23:33.200\n You can do buybacks.\n\n484\n00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:34.200\n It's okay for a token to be valuable.\n\n485\n00:23:34.200 --> 00:23:37.200\n That does not in and of itself hit all the prongs\n\n486\n00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:39.200\n of the how we test and thus make this thing\n\n487\n00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:40.200\n in a registered security.\n\n488\n00:23:40.200 --> 00:23:44.200\n The other thing, of course, is that we need to see rulemaking.\n\n489\n00:23:44.200 --> 00:23:46.200\n Rulemaking is not taken place yet.\n\n490\n00:23:46.200 --> 00:23:48.200\n A lot of that rulemaking is informal.\n\n491\n00:23:48.200 --> 00:23:49.200\n A lot of that is just vibes, right?\n\n492\n00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:50.200\n A speech is vibes.\n\n493\n00:23:50.200 --> 00:23:53.200\n You see some SEC commissioner says something in a speech.\n\n494\n00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:55.200\n You can say, like, look, he said this in a speech.\n\n495\n00:23:55.200 --> 00:23:58.200\n Therefore, that's a kind of defense\n\n496\n00:23:58.200 --> 00:24:01.200\n if you actually are in a lawsuit with the SEC.\n\n497\n00:24:01.200 --> 00:24:03.200\n But it is not actually a formal defense.\n\n498\n00:24:03.200 --> 00:24:06.200\n A formal defense is there was a rule, the SEC made.\n\n499\n00:24:06.200 --> 00:24:07.200\n It was a formal rule.\n\n500\n00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:08.200\n Here's the rule.\n\n501\n00:24:08.200 --> 00:24:09.200\n I follow the rule.\n\n502\n00:24:09.200 --> 00:24:12.200\n So the SEC's job is to create those rules\n\n503\n00:24:12.200 --> 00:24:14.200\n and to, of course, get feedback from the industry\n\n504\n00:24:14.200 --> 00:24:15.200\n as they do so.\n\n505\n00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:18.200\n And that's when we're going to have real clarity,\n\n506\n00:24:18.200 --> 00:24:21.200\n short of the clarity act itself getting passed\n\n507\n00:24:21.200 --> 00:24:25.200\n and making these laws that the SEC then has to enforce.\n\n508\n00:24:25.200 --> 00:24:28.200\n Do you worry that there's going to be some timidness\n\n509\n00:24:28.200 --> 00:24:32.200\n about people being bold and starting to actually live\n\n510\n00:24:32.200 --> 00:24:36.200\n by this divide because, you know, in three years\n\n511\n00:24:36.200 --> 00:24:39.200\n there could be, you know, a Elizabeth Warren-Coded\n\n512\n00:24:39.200 --> 00:24:42.200\n Democrat administration in power.\n\n513\n00:24:42.200 --> 00:24:45.200\n And then all of a sudden, all of these vibes are just gone.\n\n514\n00:24:45.200 --> 00:24:47.200\n So maybe it's a little bit of this, like, you know,\n\n515\n00:24:47.200 --> 00:24:50.200\n companies are kind of like waiting for other companies to go first.\n\n516\n00:24:50.200 --> 00:24:52.200\n It would take a while for this to kind of become\n\n517\n00:24:52.200 --> 00:24:54.200\n the rules of the road or, like, literally the rules of the road\n\n518\n00:24:54.200 --> 00:24:58.200\n but just really instilled as a culture in the crypto industry.\n\n519\n00:24:58.200 --> 00:25:00.200\n I think it depends on the particulars.\n\n520\n00:25:00.200 --> 00:25:03.200\n So if you're talking about foundations, right?\n\n521\n00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:05.200\n The reason why people do these overseas foundations\n\n522\n00:25:05.200 --> 00:25:07.200\n is not just for the SEC.\n\n523\n00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:09.200\n There are a lot of agencies involved\n\n524\n00:25:09.200 --> 00:25:11.200\n in the way that you think about your exposure\n\n525\n00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:13.200\n if you're building up a crypto protocol.\n\n526\n00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:15.200\n And if not every, you know, if the IRS is not saying\n\n527\n00:25:15.200 --> 00:25:17.200\n the same thing that the SEC is saying,\n\n528\n00:25:17.200 --> 00:25:19.200\n you might not be so quick to decide,\n\n529\n00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:22.200\n hey, I'm just going to launch a token out of a USC quip.\n\n530\n00:25:22.200 --> 00:25:23.200\n Right.\n\n531\n00:25:23.200 --> 00:25:26.200\n At the same time, the other thing I think\n\n532\n00:25:26.200 --> 00:25:28.200\n you want to take into consideration\n\n533\n00:25:28.200 --> 00:25:31.200\n is that crypto projects historically\n\n534\n00:25:31.200 --> 00:25:35.200\n are very, very risk-taking in general.\n\n535\n00:25:35.200 --> 00:25:37.200\n So I think mostly the answer is yes they will.\n\n536\n00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:39.200\n For most of these things, if it's like,\n\n537\n00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:41.200\n hey, you can just start talking about your token\n\n538\n00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:42.200\n and its cooling value.\n\n539\n00:25:42.200 --> 00:25:44.200\n Or you can start, you know,\n\n540\n00:25:44.200 --> 00:25:48.200\n just launching projects with less progressive decentralization\n\n541\n00:25:48.200 --> 00:25:50.200\n and worrying not so much about whether or not\n\n542\n00:25:50.200 --> 00:25:53.200\n you have admin key control in order to protect your users.\n\n543\n00:25:53.200 --> 00:25:56.200\n Yeah, people will start doing that right now.\n\n544\n00:25:56.200 --> 00:25:58.200\n People will start doing that yesterday.\n\n545\n00:25:58.200 --> 00:26:00.200\n So I think in general,\n\n546\n00:26:00.200 --> 00:26:03.200\n one of the big questions I've always asked myself\n\n547\n00:26:03.200 --> 00:26:07.200\n is why is it that even before Pollackins came in,\n\n548\n00:26:07.200 --> 00:26:08.200\n Trump got elected.\n\n549\n00:26:08.200 --> 00:26:10.200\n Even in the Gensers era,\n\n550\n00:26:10.200 --> 00:26:13.200\n why were there so many crypto projects in New York,\n\n551\n00:26:13.200 --> 00:26:15.200\n in America, right?\n\n552\n00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:17.200\n Why were they even here to get sued in the first place?\n\n553\n00:26:17.200 --> 00:26:20.200\n And the answer I think comes from a very deep part\n\n554\n00:26:20.200 --> 00:26:22.200\n of entrepreneurship and of crypto itself\n\n555\n00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:25.200\n is that entrepreneurs are just optimistic.\n\n556\n00:26:25.200 --> 00:26:27.200\n They're kind of a rationally optimistic, right?\n\n557\n00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:28.200\n They just sort of think like, yeah,\n\n558\n00:26:28.200 --> 00:26:29.200\n you know, Gensers going after all these guys.\n\n559\n00:26:29.200 --> 00:26:31.200\n But when Gensers talks to me,\n\n560\n00:26:31.200 --> 00:26:32.200\n he's going to realize that like,\n\n561\n00:26:32.200 --> 00:26:33.200\n my thing is actually okay.\n\n562\n00:26:33.200 --> 00:26:35.200\n And if Gensers never saw a project,\n\n563\n00:26:35.200 --> 00:26:36.200\n he thought it was okay.\n\n564\n00:26:36.200 --> 00:26:38.200\n Everything he thought deserved a lawsuit.\n\n565\n00:26:38.200 --> 00:26:40.200\n But people's like, they sort of believe like,\n\n566\n00:26:40.200 --> 00:26:41.200\n okay, even if Gensers doesn't get it,\n\n567\n00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:42.200\n the judge will get it.\n\n568\n00:26:42.200 --> 00:26:43.200\n The judge is going to see that.\n\n569\n00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:45.200\n I'm in the right, I'm doing the right thing.\n\n570\n00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:47.200\n Somebody in New York will believe my case.\n\n571\n00:26:47.200 --> 00:26:49.200\n Exactly, exactly.\n\n572\n00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:50.200\n So I actually think that, yeah,\n\n573\n00:26:50.200 --> 00:26:52.200\n entrepreneurs were in a dime.\n\n574\n00:26:52.200 --> 00:26:54.200\n They were going to start just taking a lot more risk\n\n575\n00:26:54.200 --> 00:26:56.200\n and being a lot more aggressive on seeing this be.\n\n576\n00:26:56.200 --> 00:26:58.200\n Hey, I'm kind of into it.\n\n577\n00:26:58.200 --> 00:27:01.200\n I've got another bankless take to get you to check,\n\n578\n00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:03.200\n check me on his team.\n\n579\n00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:05.200\n So again, another take brought to you by bankless.\n\n580\n00:27:05.200 --> 00:27:08.200\n All of this stuff that Paul Atkins has talked about\n\n581\n00:27:08.200 --> 00:27:11.200\n is uniquely bullish Ethereum.\n\n582\n00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:14.200\n Because of all the things that we've seen over the last six months,\n\n583\n00:27:14.200 --> 00:27:16.200\n again, like I'll make some claims here.\n\n584\n00:27:16.200 --> 00:27:18.200\n The Circle IPO Ethereum coded.\n\n585\n00:27:18.200 --> 00:27:20.200\n Because Ethereum is a stable coin chain.\n\n586\n00:27:20.200 --> 00:27:22.200\n This is Tom Lee's line.\n\n587\n00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:24.200\n Circle got born on Ethereum.\n\n588\n00:27:24.200 --> 00:27:26.200\n Coinbase, the world's largest crypto company\n\n589\n00:27:26.200 --> 00:27:28.200\n that's public in the American stock market.\n\n590\n00:27:28.200 --> 00:27:29.200\n Really Ethereum coded.\n\n591\n00:27:29.200 --> 00:27:31.200\n Like has that circle partnership.\n\n592\n00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:32.200\n Has a base layer too.\n\n593\n00:27:32.200 --> 00:27:34.200\n Robin Hood launching its Ethereum layer too.\n\n594\n00:27:34.200 --> 00:27:36.200\n Just explicitly Ethereum coded.\n\n595\n00:27:36.200 --> 00:27:39.200\n And so when Paul Atkins is like, yes,\n\n596\n00:27:39.200 --> 00:27:42.200\n without saying any particular name of any blockchain in particular,\n\n597\n00:27:42.200 --> 00:27:44.200\n we're going to move Americans financial markets\n\n598\n00:27:44.200 --> 00:27:46.200\n from being off chain to being on chain.\n\n599\n00:27:46.200 --> 00:27:48.200\n Yeah, like which ecosystem,\n\n600\n00:27:48.200 --> 00:27:51.200\n which blockchain ecosystem is going to be the main beneficiary\n\n601\n00:27:51.200 --> 00:27:52.200\n of this speech?\n\n602\n00:27:52.200 --> 00:27:54.200\n I claim its Ethereum.\n\n603\n00:27:54.200 --> 00:27:55.200\n Do you believe with my claim?\n\n604\n00:27:55.200 --> 00:27:57.200\n Would you like to check me on that claim?\n\n605\n00:27:57.200 --> 00:27:58.200\n What do you think about that?\n\n606\n00:27:58.200 --> 00:28:01.200\n You're not wrong in the sense that like,\n\n607\n00:28:01.200 --> 00:28:04.200\n Wall Street mostly thinks of Ethereum as the chain\n\n608\n00:28:04.200 --> 00:28:06.200\n where they're going to do their shit.\n\n609\n00:28:06.200 --> 00:28:08.200\n At the same time, I'm remembering,\n\n610\n00:28:08.200 --> 00:28:09.200\n as you're telling me this,\n\n611\n00:28:09.200 --> 00:28:10.200\n the debate that we had in New York.\n\n612\n00:28:10.200 --> 00:28:11.200\n Yeah.\n\n613\n00:28:11.200 --> 00:28:13.200\n I think you took the anti-theorem position.\n\n614\n00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:14.200\n I took the pro-theorem position.\n\n615\n00:28:14.200 --> 00:28:15.200\n For the sake of the exercise.\n\n616\n00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:16.200\n For the sake of the exercise.\n\n617\n00:28:16.200 --> 00:28:17.200\n Yeah, yeah, yeah.\n\n618\n00:28:17.200 --> 00:28:18.200\n Of course, for the sake of the exercise.\n\n619\n00:28:18.200 --> 00:28:20.200\n What was this like January or something?\n\n620\n00:28:20.200 --> 00:28:23.200\n It wasn't that long ago already.\n\n621\n00:28:23.200 --> 00:28:24.200\n Maybe not.\n\n622\n00:28:24.200 --> 00:28:25.200\n Maybe it was like March.\n\n623\n00:28:25.200 --> 00:28:27.200\n But I think that was when I was saying\n\n624\n00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:29.200\n I thought Ethereum had bottomed,\n\n625\n00:28:29.200 --> 00:28:31.200\n and that the turnover in the Ethereum,\n\n626\n00:28:31.200 --> 00:28:33.200\n I think the EF had just turned over.\n\n627\n00:28:33.200 --> 00:28:38.200\n And my view is that this is the beginning of the bottom.\n\n628\n00:28:38.200 --> 00:28:39.200\n This is the beginning of the change,\n\n629\n00:28:39.200 --> 00:28:43.200\n and Ethereum is basically architecting their rebound now.\n\n630\n00:28:43.200 --> 00:28:44.200\n And you were bearish.\n\n631\n00:28:44.200 --> 00:28:45.200\n You thought it was too late.\n\n632\n00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:46.200\n You thought they'd given up too much.\n\n633\n00:28:46.200 --> 00:28:48.200\n Again, from the sake of the exercise.\n\n634\n00:28:48.200 --> 00:28:51.200\n From the sake of the exercise, obviously.\n\n635\n00:28:51.200 --> 00:28:54.200\n But honestly, when you were reading the beginning of that,\n\n636\n00:28:54.200 --> 00:28:56.200\n like the history of the SEC,\n\n637\n00:28:56.200 --> 00:28:57.200\n and how they took Wednesdays off,\n\n638\n00:28:57.200 --> 00:28:59.200\n in order to catch up on the records,\n\n639\n00:28:59.200 --> 00:29:01.200\n I thought that was going to be your jab against Salana.\n\n640\n00:29:01.200 --> 00:29:03.200\n So I'm glad to see that you pulled your punch there.\n\n641\n00:29:03.200 --> 00:29:06.200\n I think, look, here's what I think.\n\n642\n00:29:06.200 --> 00:29:08.200\n I think the fight is on.\n\n643\n00:29:08.200 --> 00:29:10.200\n I think Ethereum does have an advantage,\n\n644\n00:29:10.200 --> 00:29:11.200\n because they're 10 years old.\n\n645\n00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:12.200\n They fit the double digits,\n\n646\n00:29:12.200 --> 00:29:13.200\n and that's really special.\n\n647\n00:29:13.200 --> 00:29:15.200\n And Wall Street cares about that.\n\n648\n00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:16.200\n Wall Street absolutely cares about that.\n\n649\n00:29:16.200 --> 00:29:17.200\n They care about uptime,\n\n650\n00:29:17.200 --> 00:29:18.200\n they care about consistency,\n\n651\n00:29:18.200 --> 00:29:19.200\n and they care about,\n\n652\n00:29:19.200 --> 00:29:21.200\n I want to be where the money is.\n\n653\n00:29:21.200 --> 00:29:23.200\n It's that old joke about the bank robber.\n\n654\n00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:24.200\n You know, why do you rob the bank?\n\n655\n00:29:24.200 --> 00:29:25.200\n That's where the money is.\n\n656\n00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:26.200\n Today, Ethereum is where the money is.\n\n657\n00:29:26.200 --> 00:29:27.200\n It's where the majority of stablecoins are.\n\n658\n00:29:27.200 --> 00:29:28.200\n Majority of TVL.\n\n659\n00:29:28.200 --> 00:29:30.200\n Majority of other institutions have issued their assets there.\n\n660\n00:29:30.200 --> 00:29:31.200\n Majority of RWA's.\n\n661\n00:29:31.200 --> 00:29:35.200\n So I think that it's Ethereum's game to lose.\n\n662\n00:29:35.200 --> 00:29:38.200\n But look, you and I have known Ethereum for a long time.\n\n663\n00:29:38.200 --> 00:29:40.200\n Ethereum is very capable of losing lead.\n\n664\n00:29:40.200 --> 00:29:42.200\n So let's see what happens.\n\n665\n00:29:42.200 --> 00:29:44.200\n Imagine a world where traditional finance\n\n666\n00:29:44.200 --> 00:29:46.200\n meets the power of blockchain seamlessly.\n\n667\n00:29:46.200 --> 00:29:48.200\n That's what mantle is pioneering,\n\n668\n00:29:48.200 --> 00:29:49.200\n with blockchain for banking.\n\n669\n00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:51.200\n A revolutionary new category\n\n670\n00:29:51.200 --> 00:29:53.200\n at the intersection of Trad5 and Web3.\n\n671\n00:29:53.200 --> 00:29:54.200\n At the heart is UR,\n\n672\n00:29:54.200 --> 00:29:55.200\n the world's first money out,\n\n673\n00:29:55.200 --> 00:29:56.200\n built fully on chain.\n\n674\n00:29:56.200 --> 00:29:58.200\n It gives you a Swiss iBand account,\n\n675\n00:29:58.200 --> 00:29:59.200\n blending fiat currencies like the Euro,\n\n676\n00:29:59.200 --> 00:30:00.200\n the Swiss franc,\n\n677\n00:30:00.200 --> 00:30:01.200\n the United States dollar,\n\n678\n00:30:01.200 --> 00:30:02.200\n or the Remembee,\n\n679\n00:30:02.200 --> 00:30:03.200\n with crypto,\n\n680\n00:30:03.200 --> 00:30:04.200\n all in one place.\n\n681\n00:30:04.200 --> 00:30:05.200\n Enjoy real world usability\n\n682\n00:30:05.200 --> 00:30:07.200\n and blockchain's trust and programmability.\n\n683\n00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:09.200\n Transactions post directly to the blockchain,\n\n684\n00:30:09.200 --> 00:30:10.200\n compatible with Trad5 Rails,\n\n685\n00:30:10.200 --> 00:30:12.200\n and packed with integrated DeFi futures.\n\n686\n00:30:12.200 --> 00:30:14.200\n UR transforms mantle network\n\n687\n00:30:14.200 --> 00:30:17.200\n into the ultimate platform for on-chain financial services,\n\n688\n00:30:17.200 --> 00:30:18.200\n unifying payments,\n\n689\n00:30:18.200 --> 00:30:19.200\n trading, and assets,\n\n690\n00:30:19.200 --> 00:30:20.200\n like the MI4,\n\n691\n00:30:20.200 --> 00:30:21.200\n the MEs protocol,\n\n692\n00:30:21.200 --> 00:30:23.200\n and functions FBTC.\n\n693\n00:30:23.200 --> 00:30:24.200\n Backed by developer grants,\n\n694\n00:30:24.200 --> 00:30:25.200\n ecosystem incentives,\n\n695\n00:30:25.200 --> 00:30:27.200\n and top distribution through the UR app,\n\n696\n00:30:27.200 --> 00:30:28.200\n reward stations,\n\n697\n00:30:28.200 --> 00:30:29.200\n and buy-bit launch pool.\n\n698\n00:30:29.200 --> 00:30:30.200\n For MNT holders,\n\n699\n00:30:30.200 --> 00:30:32.200\n every economic activity in UR\n\n700\n00:30:32.200 --> 00:30:34.200\n drives value back to you,\n\n701\n00:30:34.200 --> 00:30:35.200\n embodying the entire stack\n\n702\n00:30:35.200 --> 00:30:38.200\n and future growth of this super app ecosystem.\n\n703\n00:30:38.200 --> 00:30:39.200\n Follow mantle on X\n\n704\n00:30:39.200 --> 00:30:41.200\n at mantle underscore official,\n\n705\n00:30:41.200 --> 00:30:43.200\n for the latest updates on blockchain for banking.\n\n706\n00:30:43.200 --> 00:30:45.200\n That's x.com slash mantle underscore official.\n\n707\n00:30:45.200 --> 00:30:47.200\n Ethereum's layer 2 universe\n\n708\n00:30:47.200 --> 00:30:48.200\n is exploding with choices.\n\n709\n00:30:48.200 --> 00:30:50.200\n But if you're looking for the best place to park\n\n710\n00:30:50.200 --> 00:30:51.200\n and move your tokens,\n\n711\n00:30:51.200 --> 00:30:52.200\n make your next stop,\n\n712\n00:30:52.200 --> 00:30:53.200\n Unichain.\n\n713\n00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:54.200\n First, liquidity.\n\n714\n00:30:54.200 --> 00:30:55.200\n Unichain hosts the most liquid\n\n715\n00:30:55.200 --> 00:30:57.200\n uniswap V4 deployment on any layer 2,\n\n716\n00:30:57.200 --> 00:30:58.200\n giving you deeper pools\n\n717\n00:30:58.200 --> 00:30:59.200\n for flagship pairs,\n\n718\n00:30:59.200 --> 00:31:00.200\n like each USDC.\n\n719\n00:31:00.200 --> 00:31:01.200\n More liquidity means\n\n720\n00:31:01.200 --> 00:31:02.200\n it better prices,\n\n721\n00:31:02.200 --> 00:31:03.200\n less slippage,\n\n722\n00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:04.200\n and smoother swaps.\n\n723\n00:31:04.200 --> 00:31:05.200\n Exactly what traders crave.\n\n724\n00:31:05.200 --> 00:31:06.200\n The numbers back it up.\n\n725\n00:31:06.200 --> 00:31:08.200\n Unichain leads all layer 2s\n\n726\n00:31:08.200 --> 00:31:09.200\n in total value locked\n\n727\n00:31:09.200 --> 00:31:10.200\n for uniswap V4.\n\n728\n00:31:10.200 --> 00:31:11.200\n And it's not just a deed.\n\n729\n00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:13.200\n It's fast and fully transparent.\n\n730\n00:31:13.200 --> 00:31:14.200\n Purpose bill,\n\n731\n00:31:14.200 --> 00:31:15.200\n to be the home base for DeFi\n\n732\n00:31:15.200 --> 00:31:16.200\n and cross-chain liquidity.\n\n733\n00:31:16.200 --> 00:31:17.200\n When it comes to costs,\n\n734\n00:31:17.200 --> 00:31:18.200\n Unichain is a no-brainer.\n\n735\n00:31:18.200 --> 00:31:19.200\n Transaction fees come in\n\n736\n00:31:19.200 --> 00:31:21.200\n about 95% cheaper\n\n737\n00:31:21.200 --> 00:31:22.200\n than Ethereum mainnet,\n\n738\n00:31:22.200 --> 00:31:23.200\n slashing the price\n\n739\n00:31:23.200 --> 00:31:25.200\n of creating or accessing liquidity.\n\n740\n00:31:25.200 --> 00:31:26.200\n Want to stay in the loop\n\n741\n00:31:26.200 --> 00:31:27.200\n on Unichain?\n\n742\n00:31:27.200 --> 00:31:28.200\n Visit Unichain.org\n\n743\n00:31:28.200 --> 00:31:29.200\n or follow at Unichain on x\n\n744\n00:31:29.200 --> 00:31:30.200\n for all the updates.\n\n745\n00:31:30.200 --> 00:31:31.200\n In the Wild West of DeFi,\n\n746\n00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:33.200\n stability and innovation are everything,\n\n747\n00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:34.200\n which is why you should check out\n\n748\n00:31:34.200 --> 00:31:35.200\n Frax Finance.\n\n749\n00:31:35.200 --> 00:31:37.200\n The protocol revolutionizing\n\n750\n00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:38.200\n stablecoins, DeFi,\n\n751\n00:31:38.200 --> 00:31:39.200\n and Rolex.\n\n752\n00:31:39.200 --> 00:31:40.200\n The core of Frax Finance\n\n753\n00:31:40.200 --> 00:31:41.200\n is Frax USD,\n\n754\n00:31:41.200 --> 00:31:42.200\n which is backed by BlackRock's\n\n755\n00:31:42.200 --> 00:31:43.200\n institutional fiddle fund.\n\n756\n00:31:43.200 --> 00:31:44.200\n Frax designed Frax USD\n\n757\n00:31:44.200 --> 00:31:46.200\n for besting class yields\n\n758\n00:31:46.200 --> 00:31:47.200\n across DeFi,\n\n759\n00:31:47.200 --> 00:31:48.200\n T-bills,\n\n760\n00:31:48.200 --> 00:31:49.200\n and carry trade returns\n\n761\n00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:50.200\n all in one.\n\n762\n00:31:50.200 --> 00:31:51.200\n Just head to Frax.com,\n\n763\n00:31:51.200 --> 00:31:52.200\n then stake it to earn\n\n764\n00:31:52.200 --> 00:31:53.200\n some of the best yields in DeFi.\n\n765\n00:31:53.200 --> 00:31:54.200\n Want even more?\n\n766\n00:31:54.200 --> 00:31:55.200\n Bridge to your Frax USD\n\n767\n00:31:55.200 --> 00:31:57.200\n over to the Frax still layer 2,\n\n768\n00:31:57.200 --> 00:31:58.200\n for the same yield\n\n769\n00:31:58.200 --> 00:31:59.200\n plus Frax still points,\n\n770\n00:31:59.200 --> 00:32:00.200\n and explore Frax's\n\n771\n00:32:00.200 --> 00:32:02.200\n diverse layer 2 ecosystem,\n\n772\n00:32:02.200 --> 00:32:03.200\n with protocols like curve,\n\n773\n00:32:03.200 --> 00:32:04.200\n convex, and more,\n\n774\n00:32:04.200 --> 00:32:06.200\n all rewarding early adopters.\n\n775\n00:32:06.200 --> 00:32:07.200\n Frax isn't just a protocol.\n\n776\n00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:09.200\n It's a digital nation,\n\n777\n00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:10.200\n powered by the FXS token,\n\n778\n00:32:10.200 --> 00:32:12.200\n and governed by its global community.\n\n779\n00:32:12.200 --> 00:32:14.200\n Acquire FXS through Frax.com,\n\n780\n00:32:14.200 --> 00:32:15.200\n or your go-to decks,\n\n781\n00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:16.200\n stake it,\n\n782\n00:32:16.200 --> 00:32:17.200\n and help shape Frax nations'\n\n783\n00:32:17.200 --> 00:32:18.200\n future.\n\n784\n00:32:18.200 --> 00:32:19.200\n Ready to join the forefront\n\n785\n00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:20.200\n of DeFi?\n\n786\n00:32:20.200 --> 00:32:21.200\n Visit Frax.com now\n\n787\n00:32:21.200 --> 00:32:22.200\n to start earning\n\n788\n00:32:22.200 --> 00:32:23.200\n with Frax USD\n\n789\n00:32:23.200 --> 00:32:24.200\n and staked Frax USD.\n\n790\n00:32:24.200 --> 00:32:25.200\n And for bankless listeners,\n\n791\n00:32:25.200 --> 00:32:26.200\n you can use\n\n792\n00:32:26.200 --> 00:32:27.200\n Frax.com slash\n\n793\n00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:28.200\n r slash\n\n794\n00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:29.200\n bankless,\n\n795\n00:32:29.200 --> 00:32:30.200\n when bridging to Frax still\n\n796\n00:32:30.200 --> 00:32:31.200\n for exclusive Frax still perks\n\n797\n00:32:31.200 --> 00:32:32.200\n in boosted rewards.\n\n798\n00:32:32.200 --> 00:32:34.200\n That's a touch on our last\n\n799\n00:32:34.200 --> 00:32:35.200\n Ethereum subjects.\n\n800\n00:32:35.200 --> 00:32:36.200\n This is another\n\n801\n00:32:36.200 --> 00:32:37.200\n ETH Treasury company\n\n802\n00:32:37.200 --> 00:32:38.200\n that got announced this week,\n\n803\n00:32:38.200 --> 00:32:39.200\n ETH Zilla.\n\n804\n00:32:39.200 --> 00:32:40.200\n The company,\n\n805\n00:32:40.200 --> 00:32:41.200\n formerly known as\n\n806\n00:32:41.200 --> 00:32:42.200\n one AD life sciences,\n\n807\n00:32:42.200 --> 00:32:43.200\n I think technically it still is.\n\n808\n00:32:43.200 --> 00:32:44.200\n It's a shell company\n\n809\n00:32:44.200 --> 00:32:45.200\n that got, you know,\n\n810\n00:32:45.200 --> 00:32:47.200\n purchased effectively\n\n811\n00:32:47.200 --> 00:32:48.200\n through,\n\n812\n00:32:48.200 --> 00:32:49.200\n this is a combination\n\n813\n00:32:49.200 --> 00:32:51.200\n of electric capital,\n\n814\n00:32:51.200 --> 00:32:52.200\n Avicials,\n\n815\n00:32:52.200 --> 00:32:54.200\n VC firm,\n\n816\n00:32:54.200 --> 00:32:55.200\n along with people from\n\n817\n00:32:55.200 --> 00:32:56.200\n Ethereum lies.\n\n818\n00:32:56.200 --> 00:32:57.200\n But then a bunch of other\n\n819\n00:32:57.200 --> 00:32:58.200\n Ethereum community members,\n\n820\n00:32:58.200 --> 00:32:59.200\n as well, Ethereum leaders,\n\n821\n00:32:59.200 --> 00:33:00.200\n Robert Leshner,\n\n822\n00:33:00.200 --> 00:33:02.200\n and Taroon are in this one, as well.\n\n823\n00:33:02.200 --> 00:33:05.200\n $425 million is the starting place\n\n824\n00:33:05.200 --> 00:33:07.200\n for ETH Zilla.\n\n825\n00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:08.200\n Now, when I,\n\n826\n00:33:08.200 --> 00:33:09.200\n you see,\n\n827\n00:33:09.200 --> 00:33:10.200\n when I suck my nose\n\n828\n00:33:10.200 --> 00:33:11.200\n or the winds,\n\n829\n00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:12.200\n on Crypto Twitter\n\n830\n00:33:12.200 --> 00:33:13.200\n to catch a sense,\n\n831\n00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:14.200\n this was the first time\n\n832\n00:33:14.200 --> 00:33:15.200\n an ETH Treasury company got launched,\n\n833\n00:33:15.200 --> 00:33:17.200\n and there was a little bit of fatigue\n\n834\n00:33:17.200 --> 00:33:19.200\n that I felt that I noticed\n\n835\n00:33:19.200 --> 00:33:20.200\n on this course,\n\n836\n00:33:20.200 --> 00:33:21.200\n people were like,\n\n837\n00:33:21.200 --> 00:33:22.200\n okay, like,\n\n838\n00:33:22.200 --> 00:33:23.200\n I'm tired of this,\n\n839\n00:33:23.200 --> 00:33:24.200\n these announcements,\n\n840\n00:33:24.200 --> 00:33:25.200\n like what,\n\n841\n00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:26.200\n show me something new.\n\n842\n00:33:26.200 --> 00:33:27.200\n I don't know if you also\n\n843\n00:33:27.200 --> 00:33:28.200\n got that sense of fatigue\n\n844\n00:33:28.200 --> 00:33:29.200\n in the air,\n\n845\n00:33:29.200 --> 00:33:30.200\n but what was your reaction\n\n846\n00:33:30.200 --> 00:33:31.200\n to this announcement?\n\n847\n00:33:31.200 --> 00:33:32.200\n Um,\n\n848\n00:33:32.200 --> 00:33:34.200\n so I think the team\n\n849\n00:33:34.200 --> 00:33:35.200\n behind this is very credible.\n\n850\n00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:36.200\n So obviously,\n\n851\n00:33:36.200 --> 00:33:37.200\n you know,\n\n852\n00:33:37.200 --> 00:33:39.200\n you saw a bunch of like\n\n853\n00:33:39.200 --> 00:33:40.200\n Ethereum entrepreneurs\n\n854\n00:33:40.200 --> 00:33:41.200\n who are on the board\n\n855\n00:33:41.200 --> 00:33:42.200\n and who are going to be assisting\n\n856\n00:33:42.200 --> 00:33:43.200\n with your generations.\n\n857\n00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:44.200\n That's right.\n\n858\n00:33:44.200 --> 00:33:45.200\n That's right.\n\n859\n00:33:45.200 --> 00:33:46.200\n So a lot of the\n\n860\n00:33:46.200 --> 00:33:47.200\n who's who of Ethereum\n\n861\n00:33:47.200 --> 00:33:48.200\n are on this?\n\n862\n00:33:48.200 --> 00:33:50.200\n If you compare that to,\n\n863\n00:33:50.200 --> 00:33:51.200\n you know,\n\n864\n00:33:51.200 --> 00:33:52.200\n SBAT is basically just consensus\n\n865\n00:33:52.200 --> 00:33:53.200\n and Joe Lubey behind it,\n\n866\n00:33:53.200 --> 00:33:54.200\n and then,\n\n867\n00:33:54.200 --> 00:33:55.200\n you know,\n\n868\n00:33:55.200 --> 00:33:56.200\n the other one is kind of more of a,\n\n869\n00:33:56.200 --> 00:33:57.200\n you know,\n\n870\n00:33:57.200 --> 00:33:58.200\n Peter Teal,\n\n871\n00:33:58.200 --> 00:33:59.200\n and then Tom Lee,\n\n872\n00:33:59.200 --> 00:34:00.200\n it's kind of a finance,\n\n873\n00:34:00.200 --> 00:34:01.200\n put together cohort.\n\n874\n00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:02.200\n So I thought this was interesting\n\n875\n00:34:02.200 --> 00:34:04.200\n to see a very different kind of team\n\n876\n00:34:04.200 --> 00:34:05.200\n behind this.\n\n877\n00:34:05.200 --> 00:34:06.200\n Um, I thought that was,\n\n878\n00:34:06.200 --> 00:34:07.200\n that was compelling.\n\n879\n00:34:07.200 --> 00:34:08.199\n Um,\n\n880\n00:34:08.199 --> 00:34:09.199\n and the way in which they're\n\n881\n00:34:09.199 --> 00:34:10.199\n positioning this,\n\n882\n00:34:10.199 --> 00:34:11.199\n right?\n\n883\n00:34:11.199 --> 00:34:12.199\n So, so the storytelling\n\n884\n00:34:12.199 --> 00:34:14.199\n around each of these vehicles\n\n885\n00:34:14.199 --> 00:34:15.199\n is always a little bit different.\n\n886\n00:34:15.199 --> 00:34:17.199\n And the storytelling here\n\n887\n00:34:17.199 --> 00:34:18.199\n is that,\n\n888\n00:34:18.199 --> 00:34:19.199\n okay, it's not just about\n\n889\n00:34:19.199 --> 00:34:20.199\n staking.\n\n890\n00:34:20.199 --> 00:34:21.199\n They're telling you,\n\n891\n00:34:21.199 --> 00:34:22.199\n okay, we want to beat the\n\n892\n00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:23.199\n staking rate.\n\n893\n00:34:23.199 --> 00:34:24.199\n The staking rate is like the\n\n894\n00:34:24.199 --> 00:34:25.199\n bogey that we're trying to get\n\n895\n00:34:25.199 --> 00:34:26.199\n above.\n\n896\n00:34:26.199 --> 00:34:27.199\n And the answer,\n\n897\n00:34:27.199 --> 00:34:28.199\n okay, how are you going to do that?\n\n898\n00:34:28.199 --> 00:34:29.199\n You're going to go on change,\n\n899\n00:34:29.199 --> 00:34:30.199\n you're going to deal farming,\n\n900\n00:34:30.199 --> 00:34:31.199\n you're going to do re-staking,\n\n901\n00:34:31.199 --> 00:34:32.199\n you're going to do all this other stuff.\n\n902\n00:34:32.199 --> 00:34:33.199\n And it's like,\n\n903\n00:34:33.199 --> 00:34:34.199\n okay,\n\n904\n00:34:34.199 --> 00:34:36.199\n now it's not only that\n\n905\n00:34:36.199 --> 00:34:37.199\n there's going to be more staking\n\n906\n00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:38.199\n demand, right?\n\n907\n00:34:38.199 --> 00:34:39.199\n So a lot of these vehicles\n\n908\n00:34:39.199 --> 00:34:40.199\n is like, okay, everything\n\n909\n00:34:40.199 --> 00:34:41.199\n is going to be staked.\n\n910\n00:34:41.199 --> 00:34:42.199\n Um, now there's going to be\n\n911\n00:34:42.199 --> 00:34:43.199\n DeFi demand.\n\n912\n00:34:43.199 --> 00:34:45.199\n And DeFi yields are going to get\n\n913\n00:34:45.199 --> 00:34:46.199\n competed down from all the capital\n\n914\n00:34:46.199 --> 00:34:47.199\n that goes into this vehicle.\n\n915\n00:34:47.199 --> 00:34:49.199\n That's really interesting.\n\n916\n00:34:49.199 --> 00:34:51.199\n Um, it now means that like,\n\n917\n00:34:51.199 --> 00:34:52.199\n you are going to be competed\n\n918\n00:34:52.199 --> 00:34:53.199\n with on chain\n\n919\n00:34:53.199 --> 00:34:55.199\n through public markets vehicles\n\n920\n00:34:55.199 --> 00:34:56.199\n for your yield.\n\n921\n00:34:56.199 --> 00:34:57.199\n It's going to drive yields down\n\n922\n00:34:57.199 --> 00:34:59.199\n across the board on chain.\n\n923\n00:34:59.199 --> 00:35:00.199\n Um, I don't know what the\n\n924\n00:35:00.199 --> 00:35:01.199\n knock on effects of that are\n\n925\n00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:02.199\n going to be.\n\n926\n00:35:02.199 --> 00:35:03.199\n In a way, it's going to be one\n\n927\n00:35:03.199 --> 00:35:04.199\n of the most interesting things\n\n928\n00:35:04.199 --> 00:35:06.199\n is like, this is basically\n\n929\n00:35:06.199 --> 00:35:08.199\n going to be a gigasized\n\n930\n00:35:08.199 --> 00:35:10.199\n like yearn type thing.\n\n931\n00:35:10.199 --> 00:35:11.199\n Yeah.\n\n932\n00:35:11.199 --> 00:35:12.199\n Just competing down yields\n\n933\n00:35:12.199 --> 00:35:13.199\n and making them more competitive.\n\n934\n00:35:13.199 --> 00:35:14.199\n So that was interesting.\n\n935\n00:35:14.199 --> 00:35:15.199\n Now, is it fundamentally new?\n\n936\n00:35:15.199 --> 00:35:16.199\n No, it's another treasure company.\n\n937\n00:35:16.199 --> 00:35:18.199\n Um, and, but is it bullish\n\n938\n00:35:18.199 --> 00:35:19.199\n Ethereum that there's more\n\n939\n00:35:19.199 --> 00:35:20.199\n of these?\n\n940\n00:35:20.199 --> 00:35:21.199\n Absolutely.\n\n941\n00:35:21.199 --> 00:35:22.199\n Yeah.\n\n942\n00:35:22.199 --> 00:35:23.199\n Yeah.\n\n943\n00:35:23.199 --> 00:35:24.199\n They're not the only ones\n\n944\n00:35:24.199 --> 00:35:25.199\n leveraging DeFi yields and\n\n945\n00:35:25.199 --> 00:35:26.199\n whatever R&D chain arbitrage\n\n946\n00:35:26.199 --> 00:35:27.199\n they can acquire to increase,\n\n947\n00:35:27.199 --> 00:35:28.199\n increase your yield.\n\n948\n00:35:28.199 --> 00:35:29.199\n I don't know,\n\n949\n00:35:29.199 --> 00:35:30.199\n Andrew Keys is at the Ether\n\n950\n00:35:30.199 --> 00:35:31.199\n machine is explicitly trying\n\n951\n00:35:31.199 --> 00:35:32.199\n to do that.\n\n952\n00:35:32.199 --> 00:35:33.199\n Well, my understanding is\n\n953\n00:35:33.199 --> 00:35:34.199\n they're just going to be just\n\n954\n00:35:34.199 --> 00:35:35.199\n a wealth effective of,\n\n955\n00:35:35.199 --> 00:35:36.199\n maybe not wealth effect,\n\n956\n00:35:36.199 --> 00:35:37.199\n but there's going to be an\n\n957\n00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:38.199\n influx of capital into DeFi\n\n958\n00:35:38.199 --> 00:35:40.199\n and DeFi TVLs are going to go\n\n959\n00:35:40.199 --> 00:35:41.199\n up.\n\n960\n00:35:41.199 --> 00:35:43.199\n And, you know, maybe that pushes\n\n961\n00:35:43.199 --> 00:35:45.199\n people out onto the risk curve\n\n962\n00:35:45.199 --> 00:35:46.199\n because, you know, I have my\n\n963\n00:35:46.199 --> 00:35:48.199\n Ether in ABE and maybe if I just\n\n964\n00:35:48.199 --> 00:35:50.199\n get a little bit less of rates,\n\n965\n00:35:50.199 --> 00:35:51.199\n strong rates, I'll start to be\n\n966\n00:35:51.199 --> 00:35:52.199\n a little bit more aggressive\n\n967\n00:35:52.199 --> 00:35:53.199\n with my yield surgery.\n\n968\n00:35:53.199 --> 00:35:54.199\n So maybe that pushes people\n\n969\n00:35:54.199 --> 00:35:56.199\n like me out in order in search\n\n970\n00:35:56.199 --> 00:35:57.199\n of more aggressive returns.\n\n971\n00:35:57.199 --> 00:35:59.199\n But I don't, well, I'm remains\n\n972\n00:35:59.199 --> 00:36:00.199\n to be seen.\n\n973\n00:36:00.199 --> 00:36:01.199\n I've really seen that DeFi\n\n974\n00:36:01.199 --> 00:36:03.199\n TVL numbers expand.\n\n975\n00:36:03.199 --> 00:36:05.199\n It's coming in theory.\n\n976\n00:36:05.199 --> 00:36:06.199\n And I think it's kind of,\n\n977\n00:36:06.199 --> 00:36:08.199\n I think maybe VCs will\n\n978\n00:36:08.199 --> 00:36:11.199\n like re-prioritize layer 1,\n\n979\n00:36:11.199 --> 00:36:13.199\n Ethereum layer 1, DeFi deals\n\n980\n00:36:13.199 --> 00:36:15.199\n as a knock-on effect of this.\n\n981\n00:36:15.199 --> 00:36:16.199\n I think it's cool.\n\n982\n00:36:16.199 --> 00:36:17.199\n I think it's bullish for,\n\n983\n00:36:17.199 --> 00:36:18.199\n you know, what I think is kind\n\n984\n00:36:18.199 --> 00:36:20.199\n of the core story of crypto,\n\n985\n00:36:20.199 --> 00:36:21.199\n which is DeFi.\n\n986\n00:36:21.199 --> 00:36:22.199\n But I think a lot of these\n\n987\n00:36:22.199 --> 00:36:24.199\n details kind of remain to be seen.\n\n988\n00:36:24.199 --> 00:36:25.199\n That's right.\n\n989\n00:36:25.199 --> 00:36:26.199\n Yeah.\n\n990\n00:36:26.199 --> 00:36:27.199\n Yeah.\n\n991\n00:36:27.199 --> 00:36:28.199\n Let's get into this.\n\n992\n00:36:28.199 --> 00:36:29.199\n I might need some help on this one.\n\n993\n00:36:29.200 --> 00:36:31.200\n SEC permits in-kind creation\n\n994\n00:36:31.200 --> 00:36:33.200\n and redemptions for crypto ETPs.\n\n995\n00:36:33.200 --> 00:36:34.200\n This is a technical thing.\n\n996\n00:36:34.200 --> 00:36:35.200\n I think all of this means,\n\n997\n00:36:35.200 --> 00:36:36.200\n like if you have Bitcoin or Ether,\n\n998\n00:36:36.200 --> 00:36:38.200\n you can contribute it directly\n\n999\n00:36:38.200 --> 00:36:42.200\n to an ETF and retain your tax status\n\n1000\n00:36:42.200 --> 00:36:44.200\n like the tax level.\n\n1001\n00:36:44.200 --> 00:36:45.200\n I don't know if you can explain this\n\n1002\n00:36:45.200 --> 00:36:46.200\n better than I can.\n\n1003\n00:36:46.200 --> 00:36:47.200\n But this is something that people\n\n1004\n00:36:47.200 --> 00:36:48.200\n are saying.\n\n1005\n00:36:48.200 --> 00:36:49.200\n We're very bullish on.\n\n1006\n00:36:49.200 --> 00:36:50.200\n Yeah.\n\n1007\n00:36:50.200 --> 00:36:51.200\n I don't know that this is that big\n\n1008\n00:36:51.200 --> 00:36:52.200\n of a deal.\n\n1009\n00:36:52.200 --> 00:36:53.200\n It's kind of an easy win.\n\n1010\n00:36:53.200 --> 00:36:54.200\n It's very obvious that this should\n\n1011\n00:36:54.200 --> 00:36:55.200\n have been possible from the beginning.\n\n1012\n00:36:55.200 --> 00:36:56.200\n But previously when the ETFs\n\n1013\n00:36:57.200 --> 00:36:59.200\n were initially approved,\n\n1014\n00:36:59.200 --> 00:37:01.200\n they did not allow in-kind creation\n\n1015\n00:37:01.200 --> 00:37:02.200\n redemption.\n\n1016\n00:37:02.200 --> 00:37:04.200\n You had to create in cash and\n\n1017\n00:37:04.200 --> 00:37:05.200\n redeem in cash.\n\n1018\n00:37:05.200 --> 00:37:06.200\n So the authorized participants,\n\n1019\n00:37:06.200 --> 00:37:07.200\n which is like, you know,\n\n1020\n00:37:07.200 --> 00:37:08.200\n Jane Street and these hedge funds\n\n1021\n00:37:08.200 --> 00:37:09.200\n that are allowed to be\n\n1022\n00:37:09.200 --> 00:37:10.200\n participants in these markets,\n\n1023\n00:37:10.200 --> 00:37:12.200\n if you created or redeemed out\n\n1024\n00:37:12.200 --> 00:37:15.200\n of the ETF, you had to do it in cash\n\n1025\n00:37:15.200 --> 00:37:17.200\n and pay the slippage on Coinbase\n\n1026\n00:37:17.200 --> 00:37:18.200\n or whatever you're buying or selling\n\n1027\n00:37:18.200 --> 00:37:19.200\n your Bitcoin.\n\n1028\n00:37:19.200 --> 00:37:21.200\n So basically what this means is that\n\n1029\n00:37:21.200 --> 00:37:23.200\n simply there's going to be tighter\n\n1030\n00:37:23.200 --> 00:37:26.200\n spreads and less just like kind of\n\n1031\n00:37:26.200 --> 00:37:27.200\n slippage that people are paying\n\n1032\n00:37:27.200 --> 00:37:29.200\n when they're buying or selling\n\n1033\n00:37:29.200 --> 00:37:30.200\n these ETFs.\n\n1034\n00:37:30.200 --> 00:37:31.200\n That's kind of it.\n\n1035\n00:37:31.200 --> 00:37:34.200\n The reason why this was such a big\n\n1036\n00:37:34.200 --> 00:37:36.200\n fight is that it was so obvious\n\n1037\n00:37:36.200 --> 00:37:37.200\n that this should have been how\n\n1038\n00:37:37.200 --> 00:37:38.200\n it was structured from the beginning\n\n1039\n00:37:38.200 --> 00:37:39.200\n and it just wasn't.\n\n1040\n00:37:39.200 --> 00:37:40.200\n The SEC was just like,\n\n1041\n00:37:40.200 --> 00:37:41.200\n no, no, no, no.\n\n1042\n00:37:41.200 --> 00:37:42.200\n Who knows what would happen\n\n1043\n00:37:42.200 --> 00:37:43.200\n if you were allowed to contribute\n\n1044\n00:37:43.200 --> 00:37:45.200\n in kind to a crypto ETF,\n\n1045\n00:37:45.200 --> 00:37:47.200\n like maybe that Panamonium would\n\n1046\n00:37:47.200 --> 00:37:48.200\n set loose.\n\n1047\n00:37:48.200 --> 00:37:49.200\n And so this is just one of the obvious\n\n1048\n00:37:49.200 --> 00:37:50.200\n things the industry was like,\n\n1049\n00:37:50.200 --> 00:37:51.200\n why the fuck did you set it up this way?\n\n1050\n00:37:51.200 --> 00:37:53.200\n Clearly every other ETF,\n\n1051\n00:37:53.200 --> 00:37:54.200\n like a bond ETF,\n\n1052\n00:37:54.200 --> 00:37:55.200\n you're not just subscribed\n\n1053\n00:37:55.200 --> 00:37:56.200\n to a bond ETF in dollars.\n\n1054\n00:37:56.200 --> 00:37:58.200\n You can subscribe to it in bonds.\n\n1055\n00:37:58.200 --> 00:38:00.200\n You just put the bonds in a basket.\n\n1056\n00:38:00.200 --> 00:38:01.200\n That's the ETF, right?\n\n1057\n00:38:01.200 --> 00:38:02.200\n So if you have a Bitcoin ETF,\n\n1058\n00:38:02.200 --> 00:38:04.200\n it's just Bitcoin in a basket.\n\n1059\n00:38:04.200 --> 00:38:06.200\n Why can't I put another Bitcoin\n\n1060\n00:38:06.200 --> 00:38:07.200\n in the basket and say,\n\n1061\n00:38:07.200 --> 00:38:08.200\n great, now I've created a new\n\n1062\n00:38:08.200 --> 00:38:09.200\n instance of the ETF.\n\n1063\n00:38:09.200 --> 00:38:10.200\n SEC said no.\n\n1064\n00:38:10.200 --> 00:38:11.200\n Now they're saying yes.\n\n1065\n00:38:11.200 --> 00:38:14.200\n There's no large unlock of access\n\n1066\n00:38:14.200 --> 00:38:16.200\n to additional capital that no,\n\n1067\n00:38:16.200 --> 00:38:17.200\n it's okay.\n\n1068\n00:38:17.200 --> 00:38:18.200\n It's a procedural thing.\n\n1069\n00:38:18.200 --> 00:38:19.200\n It's a procedural thing\n\n1070\n00:38:20.200 --> 00:38:21.200\n and a market efficiency thing.\n\n1071\n00:38:21.200 --> 00:38:22.200\n It's good.\n\n1072\n00:38:22.200 --> 00:38:23.200\n Thank you for doing this.\n\n1073\n00:38:23.200 --> 00:38:25.200\n SEC, the previous SEC was crazy.\n\n1074\n00:38:25.200 --> 00:38:27.200\n That's what this is.\n\n1075\n00:38:27.200 --> 00:38:28.200\n All right.\n\n1076\n00:38:28.200 --> 00:38:29.200\n Let's get into some Zora pump conversations.\n\n1077\n00:38:29.200 --> 00:38:30.200\n Are you paying attention\n\n1078\n00:38:30.200 --> 00:38:32.200\n to the token launchpad wars?\n\n1079\n00:38:32.200 --> 00:38:33.200\n Not as much.\n\n1080\n00:38:33.200 --> 00:38:34.200\n I mean, I see the,\n\n1081\n00:38:34.200 --> 00:38:36.200\n the, you know,\n\n1082\n00:38:36.200 --> 00:38:37.200\n barbs going back and forth.\n\n1083\n00:38:37.200 --> 00:38:38.200\n But, you know,\n\n1084\n00:38:38.200 --> 00:38:40.200\n I'm more of an ETP guy\n\n1085\n00:38:40.200 --> 00:38:41.200\n than I am a Zora.\n\n1086\n00:38:41.200 --> 00:38:42.200\n More of an ETP guy.\n\n1087\n00:38:42.200 --> 00:38:43.200\n All right, so let me,\n\n1088\n00:38:43.200 --> 00:38:44.200\n let me fill you in,\n\n1089\n00:38:44.200 --> 00:38:45.200\n because this is a,\n\n1090\n00:38:45.200 --> 00:38:46.200\n I've been kind of playing around\n\n1091\n00:38:46.200 --> 00:38:47.200\n and it's not good wood.\n\n1092\n00:38:47.200 --> 00:38:48.200\n This is from Dan Smith.\n\n1093\n00:38:48.200 --> 00:38:50.200\n Which has some pretty good stats\n\n1094\n00:38:50.200 --> 00:38:51.200\n on Zora specifically.\n\n1095\n00:38:51.200 --> 00:38:52.200\n So just treat that.\n\n1096\n00:38:52.200 --> 00:38:53.200\n This happened earlier this last week.\n\n1097\n00:38:53.200 --> 00:38:55.200\n New Zora Altime High is for new posts,\n\n1098\n00:38:55.200 --> 00:38:57.200\n coin trading volume active,\n\n1099\n00:38:57.200 --> 00:38:58.200\n counter trading fees,\n\n1100\n00:38:58.200 --> 00:38:59.200\n aggregate coin,\n\n1101\n00:38:59.200 --> 00:39:00.200\n FDV,\n\n1102\n00:39:00.200 --> 00:39:01.200\n and the number of coins\n\n1103\n00:39:01.200 --> 00:39:03.200\n above $10,000 market cap,\n\n1104\n00:39:03.200 --> 00:39:04.200\n $100,000 market cap,\n\n1105\n00:39:04.200 --> 00:39:05.200\n and $1,000,000 market cap.\n\n1106\n00:39:05.200 --> 00:39:06.200\n Overall,\n\n1107\n00:39:06.200 --> 00:39:07.200\n there's been just like a focus\n\n1108\n00:39:07.200 --> 00:39:09.200\n on the launchpad wars\n\n1109\n00:39:09.200 --> 00:39:10.200\n generally speaking,\n\n1110\n00:39:10.200 --> 00:39:11.200\n I would say,\n\n1111\n00:39:11.200 --> 00:39:12.200\n especially since the launch of the pump token\n\n1112\n00:39:12.200 --> 00:39:13.200\n and people are kind of,\n\n1113\n00:39:13.200 --> 00:39:14.200\n you know,\n\n1114\n00:39:14.200 --> 00:39:15.200\n positioning Zora\n\n1115\n00:39:15.200 --> 00:39:17.200\n as the pump equivalent\n\n1116\n00:39:17.200 --> 00:39:18.200\n of a base chain.\n\n1117\n00:39:18.200 --> 00:39:19.200\n You take,\n\n1118\n00:39:19.200 --> 00:39:20.200\n you take coin bases,\n\n1119\n00:39:20.200 --> 00:39:22.200\n like culture and consumer crypto brand,\n\n1120\n00:39:22.200 --> 00:39:23.200\n and you,\n\n1121\n00:39:23.200 --> 00:39:24.200\n and then you take pump fund,\n\n1122\n00:39:24.200 --> 00:39:25.200\n then you get Zora.\n\n1123\n00:39:25.200 --> 00:39:26.200\n Right?\n\n1124\n00:39:26.200 --> 00:39:27.200\n It's kind of like what you get.\n\n1125\n00:39:27.200 --> 00:39:29.200\n Zora issues out a bunch of tokens.\n\n1126\n00:39:29.200 --> 00:39:30.200\n You can't speculate on them.\n\n1127\n00:39:30.200 --> 00:39:31.200\n And then of course,\n\n1128\n00:39:31.200 --> 00:39:32.200\n on this,\n\n1129\n00:39:32.200 --> 00:39:33.200\n so on a side of things,\n\n1130\n00:39:33.200 --> 00:39:34.200\n you have actual pump fund,\n\n1131\n00:39:34.200 --> 00:39:35.200\n along with Bunk.\n\n1132\n00:39:35.200 --> 00:39:36.200\n Now Bunk has actually\n\n1133\n00:39:36.200 --> 00:39:38.200\n surpassed pump fund\n\n1134\n00:39:38.200 --> 00:39:40.200\n in terms of on-chain revenues,\n\n1135\n00:39:40.200 --> 00:39:41.200\n token deployments as well.\n\n1136\n00:39:41.200 --> 00:39:43.200\n So Bunk has meaningfully entered\n\n1137\n00:39:43.200 --> 00:39:44.200\n the fray.\n\n1138\n00:39:44.200 --> 00:39:45.200\n And then also,\n\n1139\n00:39:45.200 --> 00:39:46.200\n like we were talking about last week,\n\n1140\n00:39:46.200 --> 00:39:47.200\n with me and Ryan,\n\n1141\n00:39:47.200 --> 00:39:49.200\n the pump token has dropped down\n\n1142\n00:39:49.200 --> 00:39:52.200\n to almost 50% below its ICO price.\n\n1143\n00:39:52.200 --> 00:39:53.200\n So it's coming in just a little bit\n\n1144\n00:39:53.200 --> 00:39:54.200\n above $2 billion.\n\n1145\n00:39:54.200 --> 00:39:55.200\n So meanwhile,\n\n1146\n00:39:55.200 --> 00:39:56.200\n while pump is going down,\n\n1147\n00:39:56.200 --> 00:39:58.200\n its local competitor on Solana\n\n1148\n00:39:58.200 --> 00:40:00.200\n is doing Bunk,\n\n1149\n00:40:00.200 --> 00:40:01.200\n is doing great.\n\n1150\n00:40:01.200 --> 00:40:02.200\n And also Zora is doing great.\n\n1151\n00:40:02.200 --> 00:40:03.200\n Zora itself has actually\n\n1152\n00:40:03.200 --> 00:40:05.200\n passed pump fund in revenue,\n\n1153\n00:40:05.200 --> 00:40:06.200\n which is,\n\n1154\n00:40:06.200 --> 00:40:07.200\n it would be unheard of\n\n1155\n00:40:07.200 --> 00:40:08.200\n if you told any of that.\n\n1156\n00:40:08.200 --> 00:40:09.200\n Really?\n\n1157\n00:40:09.200 --> 00:40:10.200\n I'm not realizing that.\n\n1158\n00:40:10.200 --> 00:40:11.200\n I'm,\n\n1159\n00:40:11.200 --> 00:40:13.200\n I think I'm not bullshitting.\n\n1160\n00:40:13.200 --> 00:40:14.200\n Let me,\n\n1161\n00:40:14.200 --> 00:40:15.200\n let me go open to the blockworks\n\n1162\n00:40:15.200 --> 00:40:16.200\n of research and actually,\n\n1163\n00:40:16.200 --> 00:40:17.200\n see,\n\n1164\n00:40:17.200 --> 00:40:19.200\n maybe I'll have to check myself\n\n1165\n00:40:19.200 --> 00:40:20.200\n after that.\n\n1166\n00:40:20.200 --> 00:40:21.200\n But that was,\n\n1167\n00:40:21.200 --> 00:40:23.200\n at least a tweet that I saw this week.\n\n1168\n00:40:23.200 --> 00:40:24.200\n Okay.\n\n1169\n00:40:24.200 --> 00:40:25.200\n Oh, here we go.\n\n1170\n00:40:25.200 --> 00:40:26.200\n Zora,\n\n1171\n00:40:26.200 --> 00:40:27.200\n 356,000,\n\n1172\n00:40:27.200 --> 00:40:28.200\n flipped pump in daily revenue\n\n1173\n00:40:28.200 --> 00:40:29.200\n yesterday,\n\n1174\n00:40:29.200 --> 00:40:30.200\n over a one-day period\n\n1175\n00:40:30.200 --> 00:40:31.200\n at the very least.\n\n1176\n00:40:31.200 --> 00:40:32.200\n Still trailing the category\n\n1177\n00:40:32.200 --> 00:40:34.200\n leader by $1 million,\n\n1178\n00:40:34.200 --> 00:40:35.200\n which is,\n\n1179\n00:40:35.200 --> 00:40:36.200\n Bunk.\n\n1180\n00:40:36.200 --> 00:40:38.200\n I want to go over to\n\n1181\n00:40:38.200 --> 00:40:39.200\n a take from Kyle Somani.\n\n1182\n00:40:39.200 --> 00:40:41.200\n He put out what I thought\n\n1183\n00:40:41.200 --> 00:40:42.200\n was a pretty good take.\n\n1184\n00:40:42.200 --> 00:40:43.200\n He's basically saying,\n\n1185\n00:40:43.200 --> 00:40:44.200\n Web 2 apps,\n\n1186\n00:40:44.200 --> 00:40:45.200\n like Instagram,\n\n1187\n00:40:45.200 --> 00:40:46.200\n Snapchat, Twitter,\n\n1188\n00:40:46.200 --> 00:40:47.200\n are these kind of like\n\n1189\n00:40:47.200 --> 00:40:48.200\n carefree,\n\n1190\n00:40:48.200 --> 00:40:49.200\n dopamine,\n\n1191\n00:40:49.200 --> 00:40:50.200\n brainrock apps\n\n1192\n00:40:50.200 --> 00:40:51.200\n that don't really require\n\n1193\n00:40:51.200 --> 00:40:52.200\n you having a lot of attention.\n\n1194\n00:40:52.200 --> 00:40:54.200\n And then Web 3 apps,\n\n1195\n00:40:54.200 --> 00:40:55.200\n like pump funds\n\n1196\n00:40:55.200 --> 00:40:56.200\n or a Bunk,\n\n1197\n00:40:56.200 --> 00:40:57.200\n are these adversarial,\n\n1198\n00:40:57.200 --> 00:40:58.200\n dark forests\n\n1199\n00:40:58.200 --> 00:40:59.200\n of thin liquidity speculation\n\n1200\n00:40:59.200 --> 00:41:00.200\n and mixing these things\n\n1201\n00:41:00.200 --> 00:41:01.200\n don't work.\n\n1202\n00:41:01.200 --> 00:41:02.200\n Like when I open up Instagram,\n\n1203\n00:41:02.200 --> 00:41:03.200\n I don't want to be thinking\n\n1204\n00:41:03.200 --> 00:41:04.200\n about like an adversarial\n\n1205\n00:41:04.200 --> 00:41:05.200\n environment,\n\n1206\n00:41:05.200 --> 00:41:06.200\n where if I buy this token,\n\n1207\n00:41:06.200 --> 00:41:07.200\n am I going to get dumped on?\n\n1208\n00:41:07.200 --> 00:41:08.200\n And so,\n\n1209\n00:41:08.200 --> 00:41:09.200\n mixing entertainment\n\n1210\n00:41:09.200 --> 00:41:10.200\n and tokens in this fashion\n\n1211\n00:41:10.200 --> 00:41:11.200\n is just not\n\n1212\n00:41:11.200 --> 00:41:12.200\n where a product market fit is.\n\n1213\n00:41:12.200 --> 00:41:13.200\n And he says,\n\n1214\n00:41:13.200 --> 00:41:14.200\n both Zora,\n\n1215\n00:41:14.200 --> 00:41:15.200\n nor pump fund,\n\n1216\n00:41:15.200 --> 00:41:16.200\n nor I'm assuming Bunk,\n\n1217\n00:41:16.200 --> 00:41:17.200\n as well,\n\n1218\n00:41:17.200 --> 00:41:18.200\n have really fixed this problem.\n\n1219\n00:41:18.200 --> 00:41:19.200\n I'm zooming out.\n\n1220\n00:41:19.200 --> 00:41:20.200\n I just get through a bunch of stats\n\n1221\n00:41:20.200 --> 00:41:21.200\n at you,\n\n1222\n00:41:21.200 --> 00:41:22.200\n some of the drama\n\n1223\n00:41:22.200 --> 00:41:23.200\n and then Somani's take.\n\n1224\n00:41:23.200 --> 00:41:24.200\n What's your reaction?\n\n1225\n00:41:24.200 --> 00:41:26.200\n I don't know that I have much\n\n1226\n00:41:26.200 --> 00:41:27.200\n of a reaction.\n\n1227\n00:41:27.200 --> 00:41:28.200\n I remember seeing the thread\n\n1228\n00:41:28.200 --> 00:41:29.200\n between,\n\n1229\n00:41:29.200 --> 00:41:32.200\n I think it was Jesse\n\n1230\n00:41:32.200 --> 00:41:33.200\n and Anna Tolly,\n\n1231\n00:41:33.200 --> 00:41:35.200\n where they were arguing about\n\n1232\n00:41:35.200 --> 00:41:36.200\n the one that caused\n\n1233\n00:41:36.200 --> 00:41:38.200\n so much to have a bunch of drama.\n\n1234\n00:41:38.200 --> 00:41:39.200\n Yes, yes.\n\n1235\n00:41:39.200 --> 00:41:40.200\n Our content coins\n\n1236\n00:41:40.200 --> 00:41:41.200\n are very different\n\n1237\n00:41:41.200 --> 00:41:42.200\n from meme coins.\n\n1238\n00:41:42.200 --> 00:41:43.200\n Yeah.\n\n1239\n00:41:43.200 --> 00:41:45.200\n And I think in a way,\n\n1240\n00:41:45.200 --> 00:41:46.200\n like the,\n\n1241\n00:41:46.200 --> 00:41:48.200\n the hermeneutics\n\n1242\n00:41:48.200 --> 00:41:49.200\n of meme coins\n\n1243\n00:41:49.200 --> 00:41:50.200\n are very interesting to me.\n\n1244\n00:41:50.200 --> 00:41:51.200\n Hermeneut,\n\n1245\n00:41:51.200 --> 00:41:52.200\n I'm going to need you\n\n1246\n00:41:52.200 --> 00:41:53.200\n to refine that word.\n\n1247\n00:41:53.200 --> 00:41:55.200\n Basically,\n\n1248\n00:41:55.200 --> 00:41:56.200\n like the philosophy,\n\n1249\n00:41:56.200 --> 00:41:57.200\n let's just say,\n\n1250\n00:41:57.200 --> 00:41:59.200\n the philosophy of meme coins.\n\n1251\n00:41:59.200 --> 00:42:01.200\n Like the way in which\n\n1252\n00:42:01.200 --> 00:42:03.200\n when it's the other guys,\n\n1253\n00:42:03.200 --> 00:42:04.200\n like the other,\n\n1254\n00:42:04.200 --> 00:42:05.200\n when it's the other chain stuff.\n\n1255\n00:42:05.200 --> 00:42:06.200\n Oh, sure.\n\n1256\n00:42:06.200 --> 00:42:07.200\n They're shitty meme coins\n\n1257\n00:42:07.200 --> 00:42:08.200\n and they're valueless\n\n1258\n00:42:08.200 --> 00:42:09.200\n and they're extracting from retail.\n\n1259\n00:42:09.200 --> 00:42:10.200\n And when they're yours,\n\n1260\n00:42:10.200 --> 00:42:11.200\n they're in innovation,\n\n1261\n00:42:11.200 --> 00:42:12.200\n in value creation.\n\n1262\n00:42:12.200 --> 00:42:13.200\n It's a new form\n\n1263\n00:42:13.200 --> 00:42:14.200\n of financial entertainment.\n\n1264\n00:42:14.200 --> 00:42:15.200\n It's, you know,\n\n1265\n00:42:15.200 --> 00:42:16.200\n it's, it's,\n\n1266\n00:42:16.200 --> 00:42:18.200\n it's empowering creators.\n\n1267\n00:42:18.200 --> 00:42:20.200\n I just find it that,\n\n1268\n00:42:20.200 --> 00:42:21.200\n look,\n\n1269\n00:42:21.200 --> 00:42:23.200\n I think Kyle\n\n1270\n00:42:23.200 --> 00:42:26.200\n is being a little bit too\n\n1271\n00:42:26.200 --> 00:42:27.200\n self-confident\n\n1272\n00:42:27.200 --> 00:42:28.200\n and his claim\n\n1273\n00:42:28.200 --> 00:42:30.200\n that these things\n\n1274\n00:42:30.200 --> 00:42:33.200\n are not fundamentally\n\n1275\n00:42:33.200 --> 00:42:34.200\n going to,\n\n1276\n00:42:34.200 --> 00:42:35.200\n like these things are broken\n\n1277\n00:42:35.200 --> 00:42:36.200\n in some deep way.\n\n1278\n00:42:36.200 --> 00:42:37.200\n It's very clear,\n\n1279\n00:42:37.200 --> 00:42:38.200\n both of these are operating\n\n1280\n00:42:38.200 --> 00:42:39.200\n as casinos.\n\n1281\n00:42:39.200 --> 00:42:40.200\n They're these kind of\n\n1282\n00:42:40.200 --> 00:42:41.200\n fun speculative game.\n\n1283\n00:42:41.200 --> 00:42:42.200\n Everybody at this point\n\n1284\n00:42:42.200 --> 00:42:43.200\n understands that.\n\n1285\n00:42:43.200 --> 00:42:44.200\n There was once upon a time,\n\n1286\n00:42:44.200 --> 00:42:45.200\n I remember what was it,\n\n1287\n00:42:45.200 --> 00:42:46.200\n 2023,\n\n1288\n00:42:46.200 --> 00:42:47.200\n when we were like\n\n1289\n00:42:47.200 --> 00:42:48.200\n peak financial nihilism.\n\n1290\n00:42:48.200 --> 00:42:49.200\n Maybe, maybe 24\n\n1291\n00:42:49.200 --> 00:42:50.200\n was more when the\n\n1292\n00:42:50.200 --> 00:42:51.200\n financial nihilism\n\n1293\n00:42:51.200 --> 00:42:52.200\n meme was getting really strong.\n\n1294\n00:42:52.200 --> 00:42:53.200\n And people were talking about,\n\n1295\n00:42:53.200 --> 00:42:54.200\n like, why are people\n\n1296\n00:42:54.200 --> 00:42:55.200\n trading these meme coins?\n\n1297\n00:42:55.200 --> 00:42:56.200\n It's just like the same thing\n\n1298\n00:42:56.200 --> 00:42:57.200\n as meme stocks.\n\n1299\n00:42:57.200 --> 00:42:58.200\n And it's like,\n\n1300\n00:42:58.200 --> 00:42:59.200\n it's all connected\n\n1301\n00:42:59.200 --> 00:43:00.200\n to this financial malaise\n\n1302\n00:43:00.200 --> 00:43:01.200\n and like the reality\n\n1303\n00:43:01.200 --> 00:43:02.200\n that nobody can get ahead in life\n\n1304\n00:43:02.200 --> 00:43:03.200\n and millennials\n\n1305\n00:43:03.200 --> 00:43:04.200\n are making less money.\n\n1306\n00:43:04.200 --> 00:43:05.200\n There was all this,\n\n1307\n00:43:05.200 --> 00:43:06.200\n like narrative,\n\n1308\n00:43:06.200 --> 00:43:07.200\n you know,\n\n1309\n00:43:07.200 --> 00:43:08.200\n you're putting on\n\n1310\n00:43:08.200 --> 00:43:09.200\n the, like, why are people\n\n1311\n00:43:09.200 --> 00:43:10.200\n trading meme coins?\n\n1312\n00:43:10.200 --> 00:43:11.200\n Okay.\n\n1313\n00:43:11.200 --> 00:43:12.200\n Today, nobody talks\n\n1314\n00:43:12.200 --> 00:43:13.200\n about that anymore.\n\n1315\n00:43:13.200 --> 00:43:14.200\n Right.\n\n1316\n00:43:14.200 --> 00:43:15.200\n We don't talk about, like,\n\n1317\n00:43:15.200 --> 00:43:16.200\n oh, you know, millennials\n\n1318\n00:43:16.200 --> 00:43:17.200\n aren't making enough money,\n\n1319\n00:43:17.200 --> 00:43:18.200\n and people get more\n\n1320\n00:43:18.200 --> 00:43:19.200\n of their homes.\n\n1321\n00:43:19.200 --> 00:43:20.200\n They're not getting married.\n\n1322\n00:43:20.200 --> 00:43:21.200\n That's not why people\n\n1323\n00:43:21.200 --> 00:43:22.200\n are trading meme coins.\n\n1324\n00:43:22.200 --> 00:43:23.200\n They're trading meme coins\n\n1325\n00:43:23.200 --> 00:43:24.200\n because they're just\n\n1326\n00:43:24.200 --> 00:43:25.200\n just gambling.\n\n1327\n00:43:25.200 --> 00:43:26.200\n It's fine.\n\n1328\n00:43:26.200 --> 00:43:27.200\n It's fine that you're\n\n1329\n00:43:27.200 --> 00:43:28.200\n gambling.\n\n1330\n00:43:28.200 --> 00:43:29.200\n There's no big meta narrative.\n\n1331\n00:43:29.200 --> 00:43:30.200\n You're gambling here.\n\n1332\n00:43:30.200 --> 00:43:31.200\n You're gambling\n\n1333\n00:43:31.200 --> 00:43:32.200\n over there.\n\n1334\n00:43:32.200 --> 00:43:33.200\n You're gambling on Zora.\n\n1335\n00:43:33.200 --> 00:43:34.200\n And I think that's\n\n1336\n00:43:34.200 --> 00:43:35.200\n kind of the right answer.\n\n1337\n00:43:35.200 --> 00:43:36.200\n And I think you sort of,\n\n1338\n00:43:36.200 --> 00:43:37.200\n that either one is connected\n\n1339\n00:43:37.200 --> 00:43:38.200\n to some secular trend,\n\n1340\n00:43:38.200 --> 00:43:39.200\n which means that, okay,\n\n1341\n00:43:39.200 --> 00:43:40.200\n well, the secular trend is not\n\n1342\n00:43:40.200 --> 00:43:41.200\n gone.\n\n1343\n00:43:41.200 --> 00:43:42.200\n People are still, you know,\n\n1344\n00:43:42.200 --> 00:43:43.200\n there was wealth inequality\n\n1345\n00:43:43.200 --> 00:43:44.200\n or people can't afford houses.\n\n1346\n00:43:44.200 --> 00:43:45.200\n That's still true.\n\n1347\n00:43:45.200 --> 00:43:46.200\n And, you know,\n\n1348\n00:43:46.200 --> 00:43:47.200\n pumped out fund volumes\n\n1349\n00:43:47.200 --> 00:43:48.200\n have materially declined\n\n1350\n00:43:48.200 --> 00:43:49.200\n from where they were at the top.\n\n1351\n00:43:49.200 --> 00:43:51.200\n I think a much better answer\n\n1352\n00:43:51.200 --> 00:43:52.200\n is that there are different\n\n1353\n00:43:52.200 --> 00:43:53.200\n speculative vehicles now\n\n1354\n00:43:53.200 --> 00:43:55.200\n that you can just go buy,\n\n1355\n00:43:55.200 --> 00:43:56.200\n you know, you can go get\n\n1356\n00:43:56.200 --> 00:43:57.200\n levered on Robinhood\n\n1357\n00:43:57.200 --> 00:43:58.200\n and go buy some, you know,\n\n1358\n00:43:58.200 --> 00:43:59.200\n strategy or some, you know,\n\n1359\n00:43:59.200 --> 00:44:00.200\n S bet.\n\n1360\n00:44:00.200 --> 00:44:01.200\n And you don't need to go\n\n1361\n00:44:01.200 --> 00:44:02.200\n buy a pumped out fund token\n\n1362\n00:44:02.200 --> 00:44:03.200\n if you want volatility.\n\n1363\n00:44:03.200 --> 00:44:04.200\n And volatility is\n\n1364\n00:44:04.200 --> 00:44:05.200\n returned to crypto again.\n\n1365\n00:44:05.200 --> 00:44:07.200\n So once crypto itself is volatile,\n\n1366\n00:44:07.200 --> 00:44:08.200\n I think these assets\n\n1367\n00:44:08.200 --> 00:44:10.200\n just become less attractive\n\n1368\n00:44:10.200 --> 00:44:11.200\n on a relative basis.\n\n1369\n00:44:11.200 --> 00:44:12.200\n I think that's a big part\n\n1370\n00:44:12.200 --> 00:44:13.200\n of the answer.\n\n1371\n00:44:13.200 --> 00:44:14.200\n But I don't know.\n\n1372\n00:44:14.200 --> 00:44:15.200\n You tell me.\n\n1373\n00:44:15.200 --> 00:44:17.200\n The conversation that you were\n\n1374\n00:44:17.200 --> 00:44:18.200\n talking about between Jesse\n\n1375\n00:44:18.200 --> 00:44:20.200\n and Anatoli got spawned\n\n1376\n00:44:20.200 --> 00:44:21.200\n from this one individual\n\n1377\n00:44:21.200 --> 00:44:22.200\n who tweeted out something\n\n1378\n00:44:22.200 --> 00:44:24.200\n to the effect of, you know,\n\n1379\n00:44:24.200 --> 00:44:25.200\n both pumped fund\n\n1380\n00:44:25.200 --> 00:44:26.200\n and bonk and Zora,\n\n1381\n00:44:26.200 --> 00:44:27.200\n they are all tokens\n\n1382\n00:44:27.200 --> 00:44:28.200\n being issued\n\n1383\n00:44:28.200 --> 00:44:29.200\n on a bonding curve\n\n1384\n00:44:29.200 --> 00:44:30.200\n with the picture attached.\n\n1385\n00:44:30.200 --> 00:44:32.200\n And mechanistically,\n\n1386\n00:44:32.200 --> 00:44:34.200\n behind once you pull back\n\n1387\n00:44:34.200 --> 00:44:35.200\n the curtain,\n\n1388\n00:44:35.200 --> 00:44:36.200\n you see the same thing.\n\n1389\n00:44:36.200 --> 00:44:37.200\n You see a token\n\n1390\n00:44:37.200 --> 00:44:38.200\n on illiquid bonding curve\n\n1391\n00:44:38.200 --> 00:44:39.200\n that the price goes up\n\n1392\n00:44:39.200 --> 00:44:40.200\n when more people buy.\n\n1393\n00:44:40.200 --> 00:44:41.200\n Because that's how\n\n1394\n00:44:41.200 --> 00:44:42.200\n bonding curves work.\n\n1395\n00:44:42.200 --> 00:44:43.200\n And so it doesn't matter\n\n1396\n00:44:43.200 --> 00:44:44.200\n if you're front end,\n\n1397\n00:44:44.200 --> 00:44:45.200\n Zora or it's bonk\n\n1398\n00:44:45.200 --> 00:44:46.200\n or it's pumped.\n\n1399\n00:44:46.200 --> 00:44:47.200\n So long as it's a illiquid token\n\n1400\n00:44:47.200 --> 00:44:48.200\n on a bonding curve\n\n1401\n00:44:48.200 --> 00:44:49.200\n behind the scenes,\n\n1402\n00:44:49.200 --> 00:44:50.200\n we're all,\n\n1403\n00:44:50.200 --> 00:44:51.200\n we're ultimately doing the same thing\n\n1404\n00:44:51.200 --> 00:44:52.200\n and we're just trying to,\n\n1405\n00:44:52.200 --> 00:44:53.200\n like, you know,\n\n1406\n00:44:53.200 --> 00:44:55.200\n brand this is a creator coin.\n\n1407\n00:44:55.200 --> 00:44:56.200\n And I accept that point.\n\n1408\n00:44:56.200 --> 00:44:57.200\n I think that's a valid point.\n\n1409\n00:44:57.200 --> 00:44:58.200\n If it's,\n\n1410\n00:44:58.200 --> 00:45:00.200\n if it's all the same token logic\n\n1411\n00:45:00.200 --> 00:45:01.200\n and that's why I contracted\n\n1412\n00:45:01.200 --> 00:45:02.200\n the end of the day,\n\n1413\n00:45:02.200 --> 00:45:03.200\n then like, really,\n\n1414\n00:45:03.200 --> 00:45:04.200\n just kind of like,\n\n1415\n00:45:04.200 --> 00:45:05.200\n reproducing in,\n\n1416\n00:45:05.200 --> 00:45:06.200\n in the front end.\n\n1417\n00:45:06.200 --> 00:45:07.200\n However,\n\n1418\n00:45:07.200 --> 00:45:09.200\n the front end really matters.\n\n1419\n00:45:09.200 --> 00:45:10.200\n If you go to pump fund,\n\n1420\n00:45:10.200 --> 00:45:13.200\n you see a four-channie website\n\n1421\n00:45:13.200 --> 00:45:15.200\n that looks like a slot machine.\n\n1422\n00:45:15.200 --> 00:45:16.200\n It like vibrates\n\n1423\n00:45:16.200 --> 00:45:17.200\n like a slot machine.\n\n1424\n00:45:17.200 --> 00:45:18.200\n It's got different colors\n\n1425\n00:45:18.200 --> 00:45:19.200\n like a slot machine.\n\n1426\n00:45:19.200 --> 00:45:20.200\n It looks and feels like\n\n1427\n00:45:20.200 --> 00:45:21.200\n a slot machine.\n\n1428\n00:45:21.200 --> 00:45:22.200\n If you go to Zora,\n\n1429\n00:45:22.200 --> 00:45:23.200\n you get something like Instagram.\n\n1430\n00:45:23.200 --> 00:45:25.200\n And I do think the front end\n\n1431\n00:45:25.200 --> 00:45:26.200\n also matters\n\n1432\n00:45:26.200 --> 00:45:27.200\n because you're attracting a specific person.\n\n1433\n00:45:27.200 --> 00:45:29.200\n You're encouraging a specific behavior.\n\n1434\n00:45:29.200 --> 00:45:30.200\n And so yes,\n\n1435\n00:45:30.200 --> 00:45:32.200\n even though it's an illiquid AMM\n\n1436\n00:45:32.200 --> 00:45:33.200\n in the back,\n\n1437\n00:45:33.200 --> 00:45:36.200\n the actual app that you use\n\n1438\n00:45:36.200 --> 00:45:38.200\n does dictate who is going to use it\n\n1439\n00:45:38.200 --> 00:45:40.200\n and the nature of their behavior\n\n1440\n00:45:40.200 --> 00:45:41.200\n of how they use it as well.\n\n1441\n00:45:41.200 --> 00:45:42.200\n And so I'm kind of of,\n\n1442\n00:45:42.200 --> 00:45:43.200\n of two minds.\n\n1443\n00:45:43.200 --> 00:45:44.200\n I remember we did,\n\n1444\n00:45:44.200 --> 00:45:45.200\n we did a podcast together\n\n1445\n00:45:45.200 --> 00:45:46.200\n on stage where I think,\n\n1446\n00:45:46.200 --> 00:45:48.200\n I think it was Tom,\n\n1447\n00:45:48.200 --> 00:45:49.200\n who said that Zora\n\n1448\n00:45:49.200 --> 00:45:52.200\n is basically pumped out fund for millennials.\n\n1449\n00:45:52.200 --> 00:45:53.200\n Where it's like,\n\n1450\n00:45:53.200 --> 00:45:54.200\n okay, if you're Gen Z\n\n1451\n00:45:54.200 --> 00:45:55.200\n and you're like on four-channel day,\n\n1452\n00:45:55.200 --> 00:45:56.200\n yeah, exactly.\n\n1453\n00:45:56.200 --> 00:45:57.200\n It's like, if you're,\n\n1454\n00:45:57.200 --> 00:45:58.200\n if you're Gen Z,\n\n1455\n00:45:58.200 --> 00:45:59.200\n you're on four-channel day,\n\n1456\n00:45:59.200 --> 00:46:00.200\n you're just kind of messed up in the head,\n\n1457\n00:46:00.200 --> 00:46:01.200\n then yeah, okay,\n\n1458\n00:46:01.200 --> 00:46:02.200\n so that's one thing.\n\n1459\n00:46:02.200 --> 00:46:03.200\n But if you're like,\n\n1460\n00:46:03.200 --> 00:46:04.200\n oh, I kind of like Instagram\n\n1461\n00:46:04.200 --> 00:46:05.200\n and I like my, you know,\n\n1462\n00:46:05.200 --> 00:46:06.200\n lattes or whatever\n\n1463\n00:46:06.200 --> 00:46:07.200\n and I like nice, clean design\n\n1464\n00:46:07.200 --> 00:46:08.200\n and it sort of silken\n\n1465\n00:46:08.200 --> 00:46:09.200\n value approach.\n\n1466\n00:46:09.200 --> 00:46:10.200\n But fundamentally,\n\n1467\n00:46:10.200 --> 00:46:11.200\n to your point,\n\n1468\n00:46:11.200 --> 00:46:13.200\n it's pictures on a bohnikerv.\n\n1469\n00:46:13.200 --> 00:46:14.200\n And pictures on a bohnikerv\n\n1470\n00:46:14.200 --> 00:46:15.200\n it's like, okay, you know,\n\n1471\n00:46:15.200 --> 00:46:16.200\n that was the same thing\n\n1472\n00:46:16.200 --> 00:46:17.200\n for Anteque Wars,\n\n1473\n00:46:17.200 --> 00:46:18.200\n was it considered pictures on a bohnikerv\n\n1474\n00:46:18.200 --> 00:46:19.200\n it was pictures of the\n\n1475\n00:46:19.200 --> 00:46:20.200\n PFP on a bohnikerv\n\n1476\n00:46:20.200 --> 00:46:22.200\n and at the end of the day,\n\n1477\n00:46:22.200 --> 00:46:23.200\n it's the same game\n\n1478\n00:46:23.200 --> 00:46:24.200\n with a difference again.\n\n1479\n00:46:24.200 --> 00:46:25.200\n And that's what,\n\n1480\n00:46:25.200 --> 00:46:27.200\n you know, when you go into\n\n1481\n00:46:27.200 --> 00:46:28.200\n a casino,\n\n1482\n00:46:28.200 --> 00:46:29.200\n and you look at the\n\n1483\n00:46:29.200 --> 00:46:32.960\n what you will see is that they're all basically the same game with a different skin every\n\n1484\n00:46:32.960 --> 00:46:37.360\n slot machine like there's an indiana jones one and there's a terminator one and there's a ninja\n\n1485\n00:46:37.360 --> 00:46:40.800\n turtles one and it doesn't really matter which one you play they're all the same damn thing.\n\n1486\n00:46:42.160 --> 00:46:48.720\n I think the big question though is pump raised like 800 million million dollars to go make\n\n1487\n00:46:48.720 --> 00:46:55.040\n a twitch competitor and Zora and Jesse from base are really trying to take Zora mainstream and have\n\n1488\n00:46:55.039 --> 00:47:01.519\n the base app which hooked into Zora to be a instagram competitor and so well yes we can be kind of like\n\n1489\n00:47:01.519 --> 00:47:05.840\n I don't know if nihilist is right word we can be reductionist and say oh it's just a picture\n\n1490\n00:47:05.840 --> 00:47:10.559\n on a bonding curve so therefore it's the same thing we don't really need too large too well well\n\n1491\n00:47:10.559 --> 00:47:15.519\n they're both both people are trying to make these things mainstream and make them and break out of\n\n1492\n00:47:15.519 --> 00:47:23.599\n crypto degen trenches and make them be a part of like regular mainstream culture and so I think\n\n1493\n00:47:23.920 --> 00:47:29.679\n it does kind of matter how the path dependency does matter like is this a pump fund live stream\n\n1494\n00:47:29.679 --> 00:47:35.199\n platform that is taking like you know streamers trying to pump their their coin mainstream or is it\n\n1495\n00:47:35.839 --> 00:47:41.199\n more of a instagram look alike for creators who just want to get paid for creating and they\n\n1496\n00:47:41.199 --> 00:47:46.159\n don't paid on instagram to create I think like whether or not mainstream society is interested in\n\n1497\n00:47:46.159 --> 00:47:50.559\n adopting this behavior at all is the ultimate question that we do not know is answered.\n\n1498\n00:47:51.519 --> 00:47:57.360\n Though I'm open to that possibility it remains to be proven that the form factor is the dominant\n\n1499\n00:47:57.360 --> 00:48:03.199\n thing that's going to create a totally different unlock or behavior pattern so far as far as I\n\n1500\n00:48:03.199 --> 00:48:09.759\n can see and I'm not a user of Zora or pumped out fun as far as I can see the games look pretty\n\n1501\n00:48:09.759 --> 00:48:13.199\n similar to me the way in which people are playing them the way in which people are talking about\n\n1502\n00:48:13.199 --> 00:48:17.039\n them like not the way in which the creators are talking about them but if you listen to a lot\n\n1503\n00:48:17.119 --> 00:48:21.360\n versus listening to Jesse or listen to Jacob the way they talk about the products is very different\n\n1504\n00:48:21.360 --> 00:48:27.039\n right but what's the way their users talk about their products. They seem pretty similar to me\n\n1505\n00:48:27.039 --> 00:48:31.920\n but you tell me. No no I think that's right as I was going to close out the section I would say\n\n1506\n00:48:31.920 --> 00:48:37.039\n Hissy if you were to ever get on to Zora I would probably buy your your coin under a particular\n\n1507\n00:48:37.039 --> 00:48:40.320\n price. That's a good reason for me not to yeah it's a good reason not to get on Zora.\n\n1508\n00:48:41.840 --> 00:48:46.480\n All right well we'll wrap things up with a more serious subject as we're kind of alluded to\n\n1509\n00:48:46.719 --> 00:48:52.639\n in the beginning turning back to it to Roman Storm. This got it was breaking right as Hissy\n\n1510\n00:48:52.639 --> 00:48:57.440\n and I started recording no verdict today in the United States versus Stormcase the jury is being\n\n1511\n00:48:57.440 --> 00:49:04.079\n sent home and deliberations will continue not Friday but Monday. I mean we are not going to\n\n1512\n00:49:04.079 --> 00:49:09.679\n hear the outcome of the Roman Stormcase until perhaps not even Monday deliberations will continue\n\n1513\n00:49:09.679 --> 00:49:15.199\n on Monday and then if they conclude deliberating on Monday then we can hear a verdict on Monday\n\n1514\n00:49:15.200 --> 00:49:21.360\n but in theory you could go into the next day as well. From Jake Chervinsky he said you know\n\n1515\n00:49:21.360 --> 00:49:25.920\n optimistically trying to be optimistic about the situation is that long deliberations are\n\n1516\n00:49:25.920 --> 00:49:33.200\n believed to benefit the defense because there needs to be a unanimous agreement with the prosecution\n\n1517\n00:49:33.200 --> 00:49:38.000\n in order for the prosecution's charges to actually be successful to the in order for prosecution to\n\n1518\n00:49:38.000 --> 00:49:43.120\n win they need all 12 members of the jury to unanimously agree with the prosecution so if there's any\n\n1519\n00:49:43.119 --> 00:49:48.880\n if anyone doubts we can get ourselves into a hung jury which would result in the whole storm the\n\n1520\n00:49:48.880 --> 00:49:54.000\n whole case starting over again if the United States attorney wanted to even do that in the first\n\n1521\n00:49:54.000 --> 00:49:59.679\n place so I think there's like reasons to be optimistic about the outcome here although we just\n\n1522\n00:49:59.679 --> 00:50:05.440\n don't know and it's going to take us until Monday at the earliest to actually find out Hissy what's\n\n1523\n00:50:05.440 --> 00:50:12.480\n your reaction. Yeah so people may know that I'm very close to this case for a few reasons so we\n\n1524\n00:50:12.480 --> 00:50:18.639\n were actually the seed investors into tornado cash and Dragonfly ended up ourselves getting pulled\n\n1525\n00:50:18.639 --> 00:50:24.320\n into the whole situation because you know we were subpoenaed in the process of the DOJ investigating\n\n1526\n00:50:24.320 --> 00:50:32.079\n this case and then on Friday last Friday the DOJ in open court claimed that they were planning to\n\n1527\n00:50:32.079 --> 00:50:37.760\n charge Dragonfly for being investors into tornado cash now this ended up kicking off a whole fire\n\n1528\n00:50:37.920 --> 00:50:43.440\n storm and by Monday they backtracked in open court stated that oh no hold on that's not what we\n\n1529\n00:50:43.440 --> 00:50:47.600\n meant you know we're not we're not planning to charge anybody a Dragonfly they're not targets in\n\n1530\n00:50:47.600 --> 00:50:53.280\n our investigation in open court you mean in Roman's case they said you know so in open court means\n\n1531\n00:50:53.280 --> 00:50:59.120\n that the the basically it was open to the public at the time that they made the statement I mean\n\n1532\n00:50:59.120 --> 00:51:03.040\n that the media was in the room there's a high profile case so the media cover you know most cases\n\n1533\n00:51:03.039 --> 00:51:07.840\n nobody's nobody's nobody cares no one's watching um uh you are never ever allowed\n\n1534\n00:51:07.840 --> 00:51:13.679\n according to DOJ rules to mention any investigations into a third party in open court it is absolutely\n\n1535\n00:51:13.679 --> 00:51:20.079\n not allowed you are supposed to clear the court and have a private colloquy with the judge if you want\n\n1536\n00:51:20.079 --> 00:51:26.480\n to talk about anything that is relevant to anybody besides the parties in the case um so the DOJ\n\n1537\n00:51:26.480 --> 00:51:31.039\n news new they messed up you can see it because they sealed the transcript um and they basically\n\n1538\n00:51:31.039 --> 00:51:35.199\n mean that the the public normally is around to read transcripts from what happened that day in court\n\n1539\n00:51:35.759 --> 00:51:39.599\n they sealed the transcript for that day meaning that nobody from the public is allowed to read it\n\n1540\n00:51:39.599 --> 00:51:44.320\n because of the fact that they read this into open court which they weren't supposed to so anyway\n\n1541\n00:51:44.960 --> 00:51:51.759\n this was kind of a crazy week for me personally right um of course you know I know Roman very well\n\n1542\n00:51:51.759 --> 00:51:58.639\n known for years and like last yesterday uh we're the closing arguments in the case and I read\n\n1543\n00:51:58.719 --> 00:52:03.599\n the entire transcript um it's like 233 pages I read all the closing arguments uh unfortunately I\n\n1544\n00:52:03.599 --> 00:52:07.599\n couldn't be there because I'm not in New York I'm I'm in the west coast right now um it is really\n\n1545\n00:52:07.599 --> 00:52:15.039\n difficult to read I think right now the jury today they um asked a few questions so the jury the\n\n1546\n00:52:15.039 --> 00:52:20.319\n jury goes away and deliberates uh and they can deliberate for as long as they want um and they're\n\n1547\n00:52:20.319 --> 00:52:23.599\n allowed to ask the judge questions which they you know they write into note and then they hand the note\n\n1548\n00:52:23.599 --> 00:52:27.440\n to the judge and the judge can answer a question to clarify something that the jury wants to understand\n\n1549\n00:52:27.440 --> 00:52:35.679\n about the law um the jury today asked the judge a question about whether or not Roman storm had\n\n1550\n00:52:35.679 --> 00:52:42.639\n arguments presented before the indictment for the prosecution to bring charges based on venue\n\n1551\n00:52:43.280 --> 00:52:48.320\n so venue means um when you bring charges against a defendant you have to bring it in the right\n\n1552\n00:52:48.320 --> 00:52:52.240\n venue you have to bring it in the right place you can't charge them anywhere you want um so if\n\n1553\n00:52:52.240 --> 00:52:58.400\n somebody did some activity in state x but you charge them in state y uh you're you're a case\n\n1554\n00:52:58.400 --> 00:53:01.200\n you can get thrown out for venue it's gonna say you're the wrong venue go try it over there if you\n\n1555\n00:53:01.200 --> 00:53:06.720\n want to try it um so one of the weakest parts of this case has been venue so if you remember actually\n\n1556\n00:53:06.720 --> 00:53:12.960\n the mango markets case uh the mango markets case got thrown out host the verdict because of venue\n\n1557\n00:53:12.960 --> 00:53:17.040\n problems because basically they tried and something district of New York but the mango markets guy\n\n1558\n00:53:17.039 --> 00:53:22.079\n Avi he was in Puerto Rico and there was no activity in New York they're they're claim of like why is\n\n1559\n00:53:22.079 --> 00:53:26.639\n this case being tried in New York the answer was like well there's some users who use mango markets\n\n1560\n00:53:26.639 --> 00:53:29.920\n were in New York it's like no that's not enough to establish venue that's not where the crime took\n\n1561\n00:53:29.920 --> 00:53:35.519\n place crime took place in Puerto Rico no the screw off get out of here um so Roman storm he was in\n\n1562\n00:53:35.519 --> 00:53:41.360\n Seattle for the entire period of him working on tornado cash and the arguments that they brought\n\n1563\n00:53:41.440 --> 00:53:47.360\n of why this case was being tried in New York was we found some victims who used tornado cash\n\n1564\n00:53:47.920 --> 00:53:52.160\n who were in New York those are the venue arguments is that there are some people used to\n\n1565\n00:53:52.160 --> 00:53:55.440\n need a cash who were in New York North Korea was obviously not in New York any sanctions\n\n1566\n00:53:55.440 --> 00:53:59.680\n violations obviously did not had nothing to do in New York um and the other claim they had was that\n\n1567\n00:53:59.680 --> 00:54:04.320\n Tom who's at Dragonfly who's one of the people who was uh part of the investment trainer cash\n\n1568\n00:54:04.320 --> 00:54:09.039\n he was in New York for a couple weeks while Roman talked to him about some random messages\n\n1569\n00:54:09.679 --> 00:54:12.320\n nothing to do with tornado cash nothing to do with sanctions nothing to do with money laundering\n\n1570\n00:54:12.320 --> 00:54:15.199\n nothing you know nothing to do with any of the actual substance of the charges so these were\n\n1571\n00:54:15.199 --> 00:54:22.800\n their arguments for venue the fact of the jury is asking the court did they prove something else\n\n1572\n00:54:22.800 --> 00:54:27.199\n about venue that we don't know about and the judge replied you're not allowed to consider that\n\n1573\n00:54:27.199 --> 00:54:32.639\n go back and keep delivering um to me and i think uh Jake also pointed this out that may be a very\n\n1574\n00:54:32.639 --> 00:54:37.759\n good sign that the jury is seriously considering whether or not to throw out these charges just on\n\n1575\n00:54:37.760 --> 00:54:42.720\n the basis of venue i mean so we're all trying to read the minds of 12 people in a deliberation\n\n1576\n00:54:42.720 --> 00:54:49.040\n room so we don't really know i think they're what i'm reading is there's reasons to be optimistic but\n\n1577\n00:54:49.040 --> 00:54:56.240\n we are making assumptions as we do become optimistic based on those things to be honest i think\n\n1578\n00:54:56.240 --> 00:55:00.800\n Roman's best chance so one thing we know from the trial is that the jury is very non-technical\n\n1579\n00:55:01.440 --> 00:55:05.840\n before the jury was seated you do jury selection so that the prosecution and the defense can both\n\n1580\n00:55:05.840 --> 00:55:11.760\n like cross out jurors um everybody who knew stuff about crypto was a limited jury selection by\n\n1581\n00:55:11.760 --> 00:55:17.600\n the prosecution so nobody who's on this jury knows anything about crypto so they're all learning all\n\n1582\n00:55:17.600 --> 00:55:24.000\n these concepts for the first time um the closing arguments from the prosecution were very strong\n\n1583\n00:55:24.000 --> 00:55:27.039\n if you don't know anything about crypto and you don't understand what a DAO is you don't understand\n\n1584\n00:55:27.039 --> 00:55:31.680\n what decentralization is you don't know any of these concepts right the the argument from the\n\n1585\n00:55:31.680 --> 00:55:38.720\n prosecutors was look don't you you got use your common sense these guys made money money was\n\n1586\n00:55:38.720 --> 00:55:43.200\n laundered it's a money laundering business the end you know look at these guys look at look at\n\n1587\n00:55:43.200 --> 00:55:46.800\n you know just look at them you know you know in your heart of hearts that these guys are money launders\n\n1588\n00:55:47.440 --> 00:55:52.640\n that argument i think it's very likely that a jury is going to be swayed by that now when this case\n\n1589\n00:55:52.640 --> 00:55:57.600\n goes on appeal everybody i know who's a lawyer has said that romans odds to win this case on appeal\n\n1590\n00:55:57.599 --> 00:56:04.159\n are very high there are a lot of decisions that the judge made that are very likely to be over very\n\n1591\n00:56:04.159 --> 00:56:11.440\n likely to be looked at with suspicion by a an appellate court but the district court ultimately comes\n\n1592\n00:56:11.440 --> 00:56:17.599\n down to these 12 jurors and if they don't give get a finding on venue my my fear is that they're\n\n1593\n00:56:17.599 --> 00:56:21.519\n very likely to convict on at least one of these charges so wait wait the reason why we're throwing\n\n1594\n00:56:21.519 --> 00:56:26.639\n around throwing out all of the technical jurors is because if you have any sort of context about crypto\n\n1595\n00:56:26.639 --> 00:56:31.359\n it's easier for the defense to explain some of these concepts uh but if you don't imagine\n\n1596\n00:56:31.359 --> 00:56:35.279\n it's teaching 12 people about the nuances of crypto and how this all works that's just like not\n\n1597\n00:56:35.279 --> 00:56:40.400\n favorable to the defense whatsoever i mean to be clear the defense also structures and probably the\n\n1598\n00:56:40.400 --> 00:56:46.559\n jurors they struck were anybody who says you know i don't trust russians or i don't like uh crypto\n\n1599\n00:56:46.559 --> 00:56:51.359\n i think crypto is used for crime like they struck all those people right so everybody had their\n\n1600\n00:56:51.360 --> 00:56:56.559\n chance to strike a jurors but what you're left with is ultimately a non-technical jury pool and\n\n1601\n00:56:57.120 --> 00:57:02.240\n that that that's how our jury system works unfortunately i don't know how much you can actually\n\n1602\n00:57:02.240 --> 00:57:08.559\n speak about this to see but the idea that the department of justice might have uh a lawsuit\n\n1603\n00:57:08.559 --> 00:57:13.760\n lawsuit against dragonfly because you guys are criminal charges a criminal charges against\n\n1604\n00:57:13.760 --> 00:57:19.760\n members of dragonfly for being an investor in uh in in tornado cash in the in the company behind\n\n1605\n00:57:19.760 --> 00:57:24.880\n tornado cash talk about the implications of that about like why is that significant obviously\n\n1606\n00:57:24.880 --> 00:57:32.000\n beyond just face value uh and what what the long-term impacts of that are so first thing to be clear\n\n1607\n00:57:32.960 --> 00:57:36.320\n they did not file any charges and they and they made very clear that they're not intending to file\n\n1608\n00:57:36.320 --> 00:57:41.760\n any charges against us or any investors into tornado cash um there's also no precedent for it in\n\n1609\n00:57:41.760 --> 00:57:48.080\n American history never happened so whether it's you know enron or theranos or any of these cases where\n\n1610\n00:57:48.799 --> 00:57:53.279\n the other line company's been indicted for some criminal activity the investors unless the\n\n1611\n00:57:53.279 --> 00:57:58.239\n investors are actually co-conspirators in some way you know it's like it's like a mob front or something\n\n1612\n00:57:59.039 --> 00:58:03.279\n that just never happens absolutely never happens so there's no case law there's no precedent for\n\n1613\n00:58:03.279 --> 00:58:10.639\n doing this ever now that being said um even the threat of saying that you might get prosecuted\n\n1614\n00:58:10.639 --> 00:58:15.440\n if you invest into something that we later decide is engage in criminal activity would have such a\n\n1615\n00:58:15.440 --> 00:58:21.280\n massive chilling effect on the willingness of investors to invest into anything that is not\n\n1616\n00:58:22.480 --> 00:58:26.480\n clearly within the boundary of a regulated business right i mean we just heard from this\n\n1617\n00:58:26.480 --> 00:58:32.000\n Paul Atkins case is that the the goal of the Trump administration is to open up the avenues for\n\n1618\n00:58:32.000 --> 00:58:38.400\n innovation to allow builders to continue to build and to innovate unperturbed by uh whether\n\n1619\n00:58:38.400 --> 00:58:42.800\n regulators or by law enforcement right just make the rules clear of what you can it cannot do\n\n1620\n00:58:42.880 --> 00:58:48.160\n 2019 Fincent gave this guidance that said very clearly if you are not costating assets\n\n1621\n00:58:48.640 --> 00:58:52.720\n that you are not a money transmitting a transmission business and therefore you do not have BSA\n\n1622\n00:58:52.720 --> 00:58:56.160\n obligations you don't have to KML you don't have to KYC you don't have to do any of these things\n\n1623\n00:58:56.160 --> 00:59:02.000\n right self-custody was the boundary that they defined that was the rule that everybody in this\n\n1624\n00:59:02.000 --> 00:59:06.720\n industry followed whether it's Minero or Zcash or Aztec or tornado cash everybody followed those\n\n1625\n00:59:06.720 --> 00:59:12.160\n to those same rules for them to then go back on that and to say no no guess what if North\n\n1626\n00:59:12.159 --> 00:59:18.480\n Korea used your business all bets are off if your protocol was used by the wrong dude\n\n1627\n00:59:18.480 --> 00:59:21.039\n doesn't matter what you doesn't matter what rules you follow doesn't matter what you thought at\n\n1628\n00:59:21.039 --> 00:59:24.719\n the time doesn't matter if you thought what you were doing was legal that precedent is a\n\n1629\n00:59:24.719 --> 00:59:31.440\n horrible outrageous and chilling precedent um and that's why i think the DOJ backed off of it so\n\n1630\n00:59:31.440 --> 00:59:36.159\n couldn't we is they realize that like hey they're bigger consequences than just what happens in this\n\n1631\n00:59:36.159 --> 00:59:42.000\n case if we allowed this to potentially stand my read on this case as a whole is the DOJ\n\n1632\n00:59:42.000 --> 00:59:46.320\n is just trying to use tornado cash specifically robin corn to robin storm specifically as like a\n\n1633\n00:59:47.440 --> 00:59:51.679\n in order to do a make a chilling effect upon anyone who wants to build a privacy out they're\n\n1634\n00:59:51.679 --> 00:59:58.239\n really just using him as an example and going after him hard because of how tornado cash really\n\n1635\n00:59:58.239 --> 01:00:05.599\n just goes against their goals of of the DOJ uh and i think i i mean i think anyone in crypto kind of\n\n1636\n01:00:05.599 --> 01:00:10.719\n understands that or at least thinks that that to be the case but i'm guessing the jury doesn't\n\n1637\n01:00:10.720 --> 01:00:14.560\n understand that or see that angle whatsoever there's no assumption that we should make that the\n\n1638\n01:00:14.560 --> 01:00:20.880\n jury sees the DOJ really in what would a crypto person's perspective be reaching in order to make\n\n1639\n01:00:20.880 --> 01:00:25.920\n this case against robin storm i'm guessing the jury doesn't really see that angle of course not\n\n1640\n01:00:25.920 --> 01:00:31.600\n i mean the one of the most notable parts of this case was the um you know rolling was\n\n1641\n01:00:31.600 --> 01:00:39.280\n indicted in 2022 um at the same time uh soon before that tornado cash itself was sanctioned by\n\n1642\n01:00:39.280 --> 01:00:48.560\n OFAC right last year 2024 during roman storms uh after roman storm was already indicted 2024\n\n1643\n01:00:48.560 --> 01:00:54.160\n those sanctions against tornado cash got overturned in the second circuit um those got canceled it is\n\n1644\n01:00:54.160 --> 01:00:59.680\n now legal for americans to use tornado cash as much as you want um despite that the prosecution\n\n1645\n01:00:59.680 --> 01:01:04.480\n went through all they did was drop one of the charges which was unlicensed money transmitter um\n\n1646\n01:01:04.480 --> 01:01:07.680\n now so the reason why they dropped that was actually not because of the OFAC sanctions the reason\n\n1647\n01:01:07.760 --> 01:01:11.840\n why they dropped that was this uh blanche memo which i don't know if you if you cover this at all\n\n1648\n01:01:11.840 --> 01:01:17.760\n bankless but uh taught blanche wrote a memo um he was i think uh deputy attorney general um he wrote\n\n1649\n01:01:17.760 --> 01:01:21.840\n this memo but basically saying that there there's there's there's new rule in town for the DOJ\n\n1650\n01:01:22.800 --> 01:01:29.920\n the new rule is that we are no longer pursuing prosecutions for uh registration offenses\n\n1651\n01:01:30.560 --> 01:01:34.640\n so if you did not register or you have you know you failed to get a license we're no longer\n\n1652\n01:01:34.639 --> 01:01:40.319\n prosecuting that it's not a good use of our time we are going to prosecute criminal actors hackers\n\n1653\n01:01:40.319 --> 01:01:45.679\n or people who are either attacking others or attacking crypto people if you are actually going at\n\n1654\n01:01:45.679 --> 01:01:51.199\n or you know cartels or or um you know uh drug offenses or things like this right like these these\n\n1655\n01:01:51.199 --> 01:01:54.960\n kinds of people using crypto we will absolutely continue going after but registration offenses\n\n1656\n01:01:54.960 --> 01:01:58.879\n were done going after that criminally right this was the blanche memo everybody thought after the\n\n1657\n01:01:58.879 --> 01:02:02.639\n blanche memo well they're probably gonna drop these cases because this is you know what what is\n\n1658\n01:02:02.639 --> 01:02:05.679\n the case here other than to say that well they should have registered they should have done AML\n\n1659\n01:02:05.679 --> 01:02:09.759\n they should have done KYC that's effectively a registration offense but what they did instead\n\n1660\n01:02:09.759 --> 01:02:13.519\n is they simply dropped one of the three charges which was the unlicensed money transmitter charge\n\n1661\n01:02:14.719 --> 01:02:21.679\n but the conspiracy to um i believe uh there's conspiracy with a lot of money um conspiracy to evade\n\n1662\n01:02:21.679 --> 01:02:27.359\n sanctions and then there's uh the last charges like conspiracy to um transmit money illegally\n\n1663\n01:02:27.440 --> 01:02:33.840\n or something like this those charges are still there so i think this is one of the last um cases\n\n1664\n01:02:34.400 --> 01:02:40.640\n that is again like a holdover of the Biden administration era attack against crypto and um it's\n\n1665\n01:02:40.640 --> 01:02:44.559\n really painful to see this kind of playing out in front of us at the same time that the rest of\n\n1666\n01:02:44.559 --> 01:02:50.160\n the industry is moving on yeah yeah yeah yeah it's gonna it's a it's a long weekend ahead of us\n\n1667\n01:02:50.160 --> 01:02:53.599\n the like i said the jury doesn't come back on Friday so they go all the way until monday i just\n\n1668\n01:02:53.599 --> 01:02:59.519\n can't imagine the just appreciating amount of pressure that roman storm just feels that doing\n\n1669\n01:02:59.519 --> 01:03:04.319\n i don't know what saying is hotel room waiting for monday to roll around so you can hear the verdict\n\n1670\n01:03:04.319 --> 01:03:11.599\n and that's kind of how i feel uh as well yeah likewise well has he uh to end on that note i guess uh\n\n1671\n01:03:11.599 --> 01:03:16.079\n thanks for joining me on on the weekly rollup and i think uh you know i'm keeping roman in my\n\n1672\n01:03:16.079 --> 01:03:19.839\n thoughts over the weekend and i know you are as well and we ask the listener and do that and do the\n\n1673\n01:03:19.840 --> 01:03:26.400\n two yep absolutely thanks again for coming on hisee whenever ryan needs to take a break i really\n\n1674\n01:03:26.400 --> 01:03:29.840\n appreciate it you're uh a gigabrain that i appreciate we bring it on the show and talking about the\n\n1675\n01:03:29.840 --> 01:03:34.160\n year the week's in the week and crypto for me my pleasure man thanks for having me i'm sure you're\n\n1676\n01:03:34.160 --> 01:03:38.400\n gonna go talk about some of these subjects on your own podcasts as well where can people go to go find\n\n1677\n01:03:38.400 --> 01:03:44.960\n those takes people can find me uh just google my name uh i'm hasib h a s e b and you can find my twitter\n\n1678\n01:03:45.760 --> 01:03:50.159\n we post a podcast roughly once a week on the on-chain feed so i'm going to find us on the\n\n1679\n01:03:50.159 --> 01:03:53.360\n shopping block the shopping block is pretty good it's one of my favorites to see thank you so much\n\n1680\n01:03:53.360 --> 01:03:57.599\n banquet station you guys know the deal crypto is risky can lose what you put in but nonetheless we\n\n1681\n01:03:57.599 --> 01:04:02.159\n are headed west this is frontier it's not for everyone but we are glad you're with us on the\n\n1682\n01:04:02.159 --> 01:04:05.199\n banquet yesterday thanks a lot\n","transcription_info":{"language":"en","language_probability":1,"duration":3845.2,"duration_after_vad":3845.2}}