{"text":" Hey bankless nation special episode for you today it's something that I've wanted to dig  into for some time what is the bull case for hype hype of course is the hyper liquid token  this is the perps exchange that is taking all of crypto by storm they also have an EVM  chain the question on my mind is is it too late to buy should I buy hype now or is it overvalued  uh that's the question overvalued or undervalued at current price and what is this project and also  what are the risks as a user what sort of property rights do I have and is hyper liquid a threat to  other layer ones something like a theorem or the L2s or Solana we get into all that and more  with our guest Michael NATO from the defy report before we get in want to shout out our friends  and sponsors over at sanctum they are not just the fourth largest Solana protocol they are one of the  leaders of Solana staking that is Solana liquid staking they're setting a new standard for token  transparency in the space they've partnered with block works I don't know if you've seen this  they have token transparency reports they have a native token called cloud and they became one of  only two companies to score a perfect 40 out of 40 on block works token transparency framework  and of course token transparency something that is essential for investors moving forward in crypto  to give their stakeholders a deeper look at their progress they've just published a quarterly report  this might be a crypto native quarterly report the kind that you'd see out of tradify and we'll  include a link to that in the show notes is a comprehensive report that gives you a clear picture  of what they're up to and their business driver so if you're serious about due diligence go check  out sanctum go check out that token report you can't miss it there's a link in the show notes all  right guys we're talking about hype today we've got Michael from the defy report and you wrote  this memo over the weekend that I had a chance to read actually was published on Friday and I've  read it this weekend the hyper liquid memo is the hype warranted and I think we got to start here  with the objective truth which is hype is minting and printing a lot of money right now these revenue  charts look incredible what are we seeing on the hype revenue side from like daily fees perspective  yeah printing printing money I think is is the story here and it was something that we just  like kind of couldn't ignore so we've been kind of you know watching hyper liquid from a far  for a little while and the protocol just continues to to print cash it's a it's a purpose dex  and really start as an app chain and really started with a product focus and we're going to get  into I think the inception story which is really a lot of the story here but yeah just just really  you know making a lot of money and challenging you know the fees that some of these larger L1s  are produced producing as well on the start we're seeing 3.5 million in daily fees that's what  hyper liquid as kind of a protocol as a perps exchange is doing right now that's the revenue  that is generating 3.5 per day yes yes and this has been on an upward trajectory it's kind of like  doubled or tripled since the beginning of this year yes volumes are up open interest is up  you know animal spirits are on chain right now and so yeah hyper liquid is really kind of attracting  a lot of the energy and crypto right now I was talking to his Zeb on the roll up yesterday and  we had some charge because it just sort of crescendo if it kind of hit a moment it felt like last  week where people were noticing all of this activity on on hype and of course every time there's  a big trade because it's all on chain you can see the big trade and so they'll be like oh Bitcoin  well you know swapping this amount of Bitcoin for like some other asset and everyone notices it  everyone sees it because it's in the billions of dollars so here's a tweet hype is doing 36 percent  of all crypto revenues while its market cap is 1.2 percent of total crypto market cap and here's a  chart where you see hyper liquid this is in a dark green here compared to all of the other sources  of network revenue compared to other layer 1 chains and other layer 2s etc and that's a massive  amount of all of crypto's revenue that's now happening on hype another way to look at this is  compare it to directly to salana and ethereum this is a posting no one is si-opsing mean to  thinking hype is anywhere near fair value because this is a poster comparing the value the revenue  generated by ethereum and salana to hyper liquid and over this time period ethereum ethereum was  like 3.3 million salana 1 million and hyper liquid like 28 million okay and you're seeing some of  those stats too when you when you put together your memo this is a six month fees this is hyper liquid  fees in terms of millions 409 million versus ethereum over the last six months 332 million and salana  233 million so what is this story telling you it's telling me that hyper liquid has a really  really active like core user base what's pretty interesting about this is there's only a those fees  of 409 million over the last six months is coming from a subset of users that is in the range of  like 40 to 60 thousand per day so the story is interesting because when when you zoom out I mean  they launched less than a year ago to be printing that much money over over six months is pretty wild  yeah but it's coming from a very kind of small subset of users that are that are very active on  hyper liquid and actually Artemis has some data on the average revenue per user and it's like 1.6k per  month that that hyper liquid users are spending on the protocol so this is it you have a chart right  so 1.6 1.6k per user per month per user yeah per month that's a monthly chart that doesn't feel  like a lot but I guess that's way more than any other crypto app for sure yeah I mean when we look  at some of this for for you know some of the other larger L1s it's it's it's definitely much  lower than that you know much more users on these these larger chains but what it's interesting  to us that that's basically paying the all the bills for the entire ecosystem this is you know  kind of our understanding of how crypto trading works there's tends to be pretty concentrated  subset of really active users that drive most of of the economics and we're certainly seeing  that that play out on hyperlicker right now these are like the whales okay so anyway the story here  the objective truth is that hype is printing money right now there's a massive amount of revenue  I want to maybe for the rest of this episode talk to you about the the subjective question  for the investor for the analyst in the space which is at the current market price is hype  a buy is it overvalued or is it undervalued because certainly if you look at the charts you know  we can see this like max charts it's definitely gone up quite a bit from about you know November  of twenty twenty four the price of hype was six dollars and fifty cents and now we're almost  above where or above forty so almost forty five and so this a massive appreciation in less than a  year's time so it's kind of a question well Mike I don't know man it's cool to see all the revenue  but are we late to the game I guess you can look at the fully diluted valuation and you got  forty four billion right here the market cap that's just it tokens that are outstanding is is  a twelve billion and then I guess if you look at the top crypto market cap it's not in the type  top ten right now but it is number seventeen so hype is number number seventeen there so there's  always the question of a valuation maybe to answer that question we should talk a little bit about  the inception story and then talk about the product and and just unpack this a bit more so maybe  starting there with the inception story of of hype so you said it's only been active for a year  or so how did this project come to be what is it yeah so you know Genesis Genesis event when they  you know drop the token and did the big air drop that was in last November so less less than a year  the protocols been around for longer and they had early users that got those tokens but this is  like a really big part of this the story to me they launched at a time when I think there are a  lot of perps traders that were looking for an alternative to to Binance are sorry to FTX in the  aftermath of FTX and what they're offering here is basically a centralized exchange sort of Binance  like experience but but on chain where you get the self-custody you still get still get that  performance but they paired that product with this incredible inception story which I think is  probably the the best story since you know Ethereum launched I would think and what they did was  they they dropped thirty thirty one percent of the token allocation to their early users that was  at like a three dollar you know hype price when they when they drop that token and it was about  1.2 billion dollars of wealth creation that they they gave away to their users so they they created  they bought a lot of loyalty I would say right off right off the bat and they did this with zero  you know VCs no angel investors like they really it seems to me like you know they're trying to  solve for you know a great product and like a focus on users and and doing so building trust you  know with with their community and so I think they've done a really good job of this and this is  created I think a flywheel when you combine it with the product that is very interesting and we'll  get into sort of what's being built there and it's kind of growing into a layer one ecosystem now  but this you you really can't you really got to focus on this because it's created so much loyalty  then you have a really loud community on crypto twitter that are now evangelists for the product  and it just kind of kicks off an interesting flywheel with the way that they they launched the product  so you're saying this is the one maybe one of the best token inception stories as far as  quote unquote fair launch that we've seen in in a long time maybe since something like a theory  I mean you're saying because there's no VCs there's no angels there's like the focus is on users  and the the whales that bring liquidity to this platform and they got all of the token so there's  not that you know typical VC cell pressure you know the 12 to 24 month unlocks although I believe  that the hype founders in the hype team does have token unlocks is that correct correct yeah so they've  got almost 24% and that they're investing well some of their unlocks are starting in November so  their investing schedule starts some of those unlocks are going to start to leak out they're  starting to be some talk you know in the market are they going to sell are they going to jump on  the community I think they put some stuff out that they're going to limit the amount that their  team actually can sell but yeah I think this is very interesting because a lot of times when you're  you're studying a project you really have to pay attention to you know how might how many of the  tokens went to VCs what are those unlocks schedules look like we've seen we've seen a lot of charts  in crypto where after that year and especially if you're in a bear market when those unlocks come  you it's a tough time to be holding the token and so the you know in sort of eliminating all  that they're building a lot of trust with not only the users but also people that might want to  invest in this protocol in the Wild West of DeFi stability and innovation are everything which is  why you should check out Frax Finance the protocol revolutionizing stablecoins DeFi and Rolex the  core of Frax Finance is Frax USD which is backed by BlackRock's institutional middle fund Frax  designed Frax USD for besting class 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the latest updates on blockchain for banking  that's x.com slash mantle underscore official okay so a nice clean cap table that's user focused  cleat clean launch for the token let's talk about the product itself so when i pull up hyper  liquid it looks like an exchange basically it looks like something i'd seen you know coinbase  or crack in or or finance or back to the day maybe an ftx right i see charts i see things  all crypto assets i can buy and sell i can see my portfolio it looks essentially like an exchange  now all of this is on chain and the product it seems like the central product is you can buy  spot i believe but it's perps right which is really bitmex and crypto pioneered a fantastic way  to kind of lever up on your positions as well and if you want to you know four x five x ten x long  you can do that on this platform it's probably cryptos most like strongest  um uh product that it's that it that it's built and they have laser focused on the perps market so  it's interesting to though because mic there've been many tries at creating on chain bitmex on chain  finance perps in the past and some have had levels of success i remember past cycle dy dx was  attracting a lot of the on chain perps liquidity it was still nowhere in size compared to an ftx or  a binance but um it was doing fairly well now this product from hyperliquid seems to be competing  with the big boys so i was looking last week and i think hyperliquid was like number two just  to binance binance was a little bit higher in terms of spot bitcoin volume on a particular day  so it's competing with all of the big centralized exchanges and the experience that you have you  connect to crypto wallet of course so you could use a rabbi or metamask or even a fan to my believe  but it feels like you're on a centralized exchange and you have centralized exchange levels of liquidity  so what accounts for the product success here i think i think that's it i think they solved this  you know sort of sex like experience with high throughput it's it's got a really nice ux it's  fairly easy you know you do have to bridge over so you know but it's fairly easy to get get in  there and i think that's really it there's they've they've they've given you the sex like  experience but also you have self-custody of the assets and that helps to build trust obviously in  the in the wake of ftx they've also just i think done a really good job of listing new product  relevant new tokens you know pretty quickly when they come out and so whenever  um people want to be trading the the new and kind of fresh asset that comes out they're getting  that up there they're capturing that market um they've got like an interesting referral system  as well so you now have like phantom and axiom uh users that can trade through them and they get  and what it's actually kind of an interesting business model where they're basically sending user  flow user liquidity to hyperliquid and then hyperliquid is actually kicking back a referral fee  to to these platforms which is very interesting model so you know you you kind of solve  for distribution through some of these larger wallets through some of these more attractive trading  terminals like like axiom on salana which is like one of the fastest growing apps on salana so i  think you know it's it's just seems really well thought out in terms of how they've approached the  market and now they have these integrations that's driving more liquidity more more users to the  platform as well and there are they just able to move faster than the the Binance for instance  like who are the big perps i guess centralize these changes is it is it primarily Binance at this  point and they're just able to move faster than them so you've got Binance you've got buy bit you've  got okay acts those are kind of like the three kings i would say of the perp market you do have  uh cme uh which has has futures trading now as well but yeah i think i think they are moving fast  they've got a really loyal loyal base i mean there's only 11 employees which which we can probably  talk about at some point so they're obviously a very talented team to build it to execute all this  and yeah i think i think they've got the flywheel and once you get the flywheel and you get the  when you when you have a users what's what's interesting about this approach and we'll get to  sort of where they're going with building out the ecosystem but when you start with a base of  really active users that's really really interesting because it attracts builders right builders are  attracted to users and liquidity and you know they have been able to bootstrap all that without  vcs without uh with this kind of pure inception story so it feels like they've got a really really  strong foundation to now build this out as well so okay so there is an ecosystem story then and we'll  get to that in a minute but before you mentioned um the founders and the team it's a small team  talented team so you sent me over this uh interview over the weekend i haven't had a chance to  fully get through it uh which with his uh jeff he's one of the the co-founders of hyper liquid  what what do you see when you see when when you think about the hyper liquid team what makes this  team special and how have they been able to execute like this yeah this is interesting i have to  say like after watching this this interview with with jeff i was getting more interested in the  project probably more bullish on the products myself just hearing his story but his you know he  is coming from a background uh from from quatt trading so he started off at Hudson actually i think  he was an engineer at google for a little bit then he went to Hudson River trading which is a large  wall street firm and i think it was there for like less than a year or so and then somehow ended  up you know playing around in defi you know in 2021 2020 and i think he just realized how inefficient  the the crypto markets were um developed some algorithms probably made some money you know trading  and and i think you actually like retired uh we went went did some travel and and then during  that experience realized that he wanted to build something much bigger and much more meaningful  and that's kind of where where hyper liquid came from so these guys you know understand markets  they understand trading they understand perps like that they're they're they're the right guys to  build this type of ecosystem i think and uh yeah i would recommend people you know check out just  whatever resources you can find on these guys because i think um that's that's always part of the  analysis whenever we're looking at at a project is who is actually behind this thing and what are  their motivations do they seem like mission driven type of people that are trying to build something  you know for the greater good uh of crypto and i think i think um you know i feel like that these  are the right people to build a project like this let's talk about the ecosystem so at first hyper  liquid was an app chain for this perps exchange and that's been very successful they've attracted a  ton of volume there uh you know like a massive amount of of size uh then more more recently they  actually launch your launch day general purpose you know call it maybe a layer one called the hyper  EVM hyper liquid sits on top of the hyper EVM at least i believe that's the case but the  hyper EVM is kind of a a general purpose EVM chain so other apps can come and uh essentially out  i think per maybe i'm using the right term here permissionlessly deploy you can see on defy llama  a number of these different apps uh pendals there for instance you know pendal and mortho these are  from you know other defy protocols um and you can see some of them are liquid staking some of  them are yield generating protocols there's an entire what we call like a defy economy that seems  to be springing up on top of hyper liquid this i knows this tweet from the ether dot five ventures  folks and they're saying we're going to just straight up back hyper liquid ecosystem projects we're  going to tackle you know credit collateral and yield like cdp type projects on top of hyper liquid  stake type liquidity front ends and and swaps and i think the premise behind this correct me if  i'm wrong is that hyper liquid has been able to create a primitive a crypto primitive a money  Lego if you will of liquidity and now we have all this liquidity apps can build on top of that  liquidity and do other defy finance types of things for its users and so they've opened that up  and that's what the hyper EVM is i should at it's got to be it's super performant very very scalable  we'll talk about the uh the centralization versus decentralization aspects a little bit later but  this is really like fast block times uh you know i i don't know how much in terms of throughput  transactions per second but far more performant than um the layer two's that that we generally see  including even the the highly performant ones like salana so talk about this ecosystem a bit more  yeah so what's really interesting to me about this is like most L ones you know start out most of them  have you know that to raise capital and then they have to use the sort of bc money to find ways to  incentivize other builders to come in to to get liquidity which then attracts more builders they  don't start with an app they don't start with an app yeah they started with a great product um and  that's essentially the option of what of what the perp stacks deck is and that's really interesting  to me because they've done that all organically now they have users now they have liquidity and so  now the flywheel of attracting other builder builders to this ecosystem has has kicked off with them  launching the hyper EVM and the way i sort of think about this is like if you just sort of analyze  hyper liquid from the app chain perspective it's quite impressive uh the amount of fees are doing  the way that they you know brought this to market the the sort of trust and loyalty that they've  already established in the market in a short period of time and now you sort of open this up and  you've got this EVM and out of the entire you know ethereum ecosystem everybody that has a EVM  based wallet can now start to access these apps um and you're going to see i think more more liquidity  come in here more users and uh it was interesting to me even as we published a report on hype last week  and had people reaching out to me that are building stuff on hype and it was just interesting to see  you know the energy i think that's that's forming around around this ecosystem um so this now  becomes a much bigger story of like okay should should hyper liquid be should we think about  hyper liquid's future value more relative to like a large like l want right is that actually the game  that they're playing and it's not really that they're competing with you know dy dx and you know  Jupiter perps and and drift but maybe they're actually trying to build out something much much bigger  here um so i i think this is this is quite interesting and the way that they've approached it is  sort of that path dependence of doing it with users and liquidity first instead of  with bcs is very interesting yeah and on this ecosystem question it is the case that we've seen  chains like this before the bnb chain maybe comes to mind it's kind of a Binance type of chain  but it's its own you know less restricted kind of uh more open sandbox for defi portal calls to  to come in that's kind of what hyper liquid is doing here although hyper liquid is going even  further in putting all of their liquidity on chain whereas Binance has central order books um so  that's an interesting analog here but when we start doing layer one comparables it does kind of big  the question of okay what are the property rights of the layer one in questions of hyper ledger  I sorry hyper liquid is a layer one then like there's questions about how decentralized is it  and when I think of the question of decentralization I do think of it in terms of less like are you  you know following this particular protocol or not and and more of what are the the rights  and abilities of users particularly around this question of of stealing censorship and freezing  okay so the SCF if you will and so the question is and I was asking this question over the weekend  if hyper liquid goes down can users withdraw their funds in a layer two we know how that would work  as long as the theorem secures your kind of property rights if uh arbitrum or optimism or  base were to turn evil as a user you have the abilities kind of withdraw your assets back to a  theorem back to the layer one um unclear what happens in hyper liquid in this case but they have  their own validator set and also if hyper liquid turned evil or maybe the the government shut them  down start to seize their like validators could they steal user funds and these are pretty relevant  questions I think when you're starting in the layer one game so what have you uncovered about  these questions in the level of decentralization that exists in hyper liquid today yeah so I  think there's there's a few ways to think about you know decentralization and all those questions  that you just uh posed right which are extremely relevant for crypto users um I think the way that  I think of this is you know they started uh a little less than a little less than a year ago  and they've got about 24 validators today so that is actually we just we're talking we just  mentioned binats that's kind of like similar to what binats you know chain chain has um so pretty  centralized I would say like you know almost more like a permissioned block chain at this point  because a lot of those validators are being permissioned in it's not fully uh open source and  permissionless just yet I believe that they're moving in in that direction and and there's reasons why  they sort of want to keep that close uh right now and the early days of the protocol so I think  from that perspective if those validators you know like you said tried to collude or you know  turned evil um you know I think users are trusting that they're not going to do that and that  you know that would kill their entire project that they're building and maybe their incentives  are aligned up to do something like that um but because of the early stage of it you do have you  know not a ton of validators which um diminishes the the decentralization of the project and the  security uh of the project so that's that's number one uh number two is because it's its own  you know layer one ecosystem to get your assets over there to to use a protocol um you need to  bridge in uh to do so um there's a few different bridges in ways to get in there most of that is  coming through arbitrum uh ethereum layer two and so um what's happening there is you know users are  essentially yeah depositing into the arbitrum bridge and then there's like an accounting mechanism  on the other side of that for hyperlip good where they're there essentially essentially minting  you a version of that in their chain and then keeping all the accounting on the hyperlip with ledger  from there um and so yes you are trusting that bridge right if something happened with that bridge  or that bridge was hacked um similar to you know hacks that we've seen at other bridges especially  you know in the kind of 21 cycle we saw a lot of this i think bridging has become much more secure  in this cycle but if you did have something um then user funds are potentially at loss you know via  that via that bridge i think those are the two things um that i would think of and  for for me like it's really difficult as an l1 to just sort of come to market and have  you know like a million validators like some of these like ethereum does and some of these other  more mature layer one ecosystem so there is a process to decentralization i think they're it with  that comes some trust in the early days for for users so yeah that makes sense i mean so the  i guess the long and short of it is right now those validators can steal sensor frees um there's  some level of permissioning you know some of it may not be the hyperlip liquid team it could be  somewhat um distributed and somewhat to centralize so you have the validators at play there you also  have this bridge risk as well and you also have underlying arbitrum risk what's kind of interesting  is um you know i used to say about centralized exchanges like you should use centralized exchanges  like a public bathroom right get in do your business and then get out um there's a difference between  getting into hyperliquid and doing some trading uh and then getting out and leaving your funds  on hyperliquid for a long period of time like months uh and even years and so you know this is  you and i've talked about this before the difference between kind of like some fast defy type  use cases and slow defy use cases where the slow defy use cases are kind of like you know vaulting  and lending and borrowing and store of value types of use cases where you just want to keep your assets  in one place for like months and years um i don't know that hyperliquid is quite ready for those  types of use cases if that makes sense like you know how many months or years are you going to  store your funds on some perlite on something like hyperliquid whereas for fast defy um it's  kind of great and is it that much more risky than a centralized exchange like probably not probably  in some ways actually less risky at least you don't have the sandbank been freed FTX style of risk  because it's all open you can see all of the assets on chain and there's not really a way for  hyperliquid to kind of like cook the books uh you take some of the assets and like you actually  use them for a separate side pocket hedge fund the way sandbank been freed was doing so there are  some benefits here it's just not quite like it's not the property rights of a layer one which is  the way i see this i don't know if you agree with this is um i kind of see this as more competitive  to maybe a uh FTX if it was still around or a Binance or a Coinbase or a Kraken or some of these  centralized uh you know perfect exchanges because it's kind of a hybrid it's not quite a centralized  exchange it's not quite defy it's somewhere in the middle i see it less of a threat to like  a Bitcoin for instance or an Ethereum or even at some level a salon although maybe salon  and hyperliquid start to brush up against each other but just because property rights are so key  for that slow defy use case in the store of value use case and you know you don't have those  certainties here it's not open source for instance so even as a validator you're running code that  you don't have open source access to actually see so it's not quite in the same ballgame with  respectic you know comparable other layer ones what do you think about that yeah i think that's right  i think it's somewhere in the middle right now it's kind of got the performance of these more  centralized uh counter parts and it's trying to move in this direction where it can sort of be seen  as something that's more decentralized that gives you those property rights that crypto users  really value and you know to your point on like you know sort of the slow kind of store of value  defy use cases like what's kind of interesting you know when you kind of zoom out and just look  at what's starting to play out in terms of where all the assets sit you know where the velocity  of assets is happening we're seeing like just some really interesting stuff which just like it looks  like most of the stuff wants to be traded in places like hyperliquid in places like salon but  actually most of the assets sit on ethereum and so it's kind of an interesting thing where  um you you know you have these kind of fast sort of online casino type environments and then you  have which is what we're seeing with hyperliquid and maybe more salana and then you have more of the  wall street type you know use cases that are happening on ethereum and ethereum has 100% uptime  it's trusted it's decentralized you have those those property rights and those user guarantees even  on l2 where you're going to withdraw assets so it's kind of interesting just sort of zooming out  thinking about how crypto ecosystem is starting to play out it looks like ethereum is the home  to keep your assets and these other places are sort of like little you know arms where people can  go and do other things I think it's interesting I mean because at some level it is sort of a win  for the ethereum ecosystem because this is all EVM it's kind of building that network effect and  platform effect uh at the same time there's a little there's an element of like well why didn't they  do this as a layer two I mean right if the layer two strategy worked so well how come hyperliquid  actually decided not to deploy this as a layer two and I think when I've listened to conversations  with Jeff and some of the other co-founders they say the reason is they couldn't get the performance  in all of the customized ability that allow them to produce a product essentially this good  for purpose trading so maybe at some point in the future they become a layer two maybe not maybe  the L1 thing is is going for them but yeah I um yeah I agree there's there's kind of like the slow  defy type store value use cases then it does seem like there's a whole bunch of other things  that are happening on centralized exchanges and uh layer two layer one order books and that kind of  thing um another element of this that I was wondering which is is kind of like the uh the AML KYC  Bank secrecy act type of risk um and it's just like do you remember Mike that uh Arthur Hayes  he spent six months on health on house arrest for not crossing uh all of the T's and dotting  his eyes with respect to AML KYC and the US government came after him CZ spent a year in jail  over this type of thing okay and hyperliquid is not doing that to my knowledge today they're doing  that for the validators but they're not doing that for users and it seems like because of the  Trump administration things have opened up I don't think that there's going to be prosecution  during the Trump regime of something like hyperliquid but that is sort of a market risk that lingers  at least in my mind out there and I guess hyperliquid strategy is just like use the time we have to  become as big as possible kick that can down the road and worry about it later once we're big it's  almost like the tether strategy here it's kind of what Paulo and tether did right which is just  they were in this like weird gray zone for a while and now look at them they have the genius act  and he's at the the signing of of the genius bill himself and tether is now completely legitimized  and that could happen with hyperliquid but they have to move fast during this time of uh open  market because there's some great area I feel like with the AML KYC question yeah no that's uh  you know interesting observation uh as well and yeah I think you know they're they're doing KYC  for the for the validators they have you know geofanced the you know the perps decks and just  accessing that um so you need a VPN to to get in there um that did not say that's next or finance  oh really okay yeah okay interesting um so yeah there's definitely some some risk there and I think  I think you're right that's probably is the strategy of just sort of let's get this thing to scale  and be sort of like big too big to fail or too big to shut down um and and maybe that's that's  the strategy but certainly another um you know element of risk that people should consider here  let's talk about um how big this is right now so open interest this is a metric that's important  for these types of exchanges what what are you seeing on some of these fundamentals metrics  like open interest yeah you know just trying to you know get a sense for where they sit and where  they compare to you know some of these other more centralized counterparts finance by bit okay  acts you know CME in terms of open interest like they they've got about I think there's like about  13 billion or so currently and that represents roughly 10% of all these you know the combined you  know centralized players including CME um so that's that's pretty interesting in their you know  I think the people think of them as sort of their competition is the decentralized you know  counterparts which is more of the Jupiter perps dy dx drift gmx um they are you know you know far  in a way much much higher from from those protocols I think doing about 10x the volume of them combined  and so when you think about their their share of the market they're already to me they've already  won the sort of decentralized perps game uh maybe too early to test to say that but they have  such a big lead in so much momentum right now it feels like it's moving in that direction and the  competition is you know by bynans and bybit and these more you know centralized players there is  you know Robinhood is is planning to launch this in the US soon I believe Coinbase just launched  launch perps as well so there's there's more competition coming as well okay and you you talked  about the uh the active users and the revenue per user just uh extremely impressive here yeah  very highly highly active highly engaged users I think is sort of the I think what what the take  away with this is just the stickiness of the product and it feels to be like if you're generating  that much value of your users like they're not trading anywhere else they're just trading they're  trading on hyper liquid okay so volume competitive with the big boys and seeing that from a open  interest perspective from just like the raw volume perspective now let's talk about one of the  most exciting elements of this which is the crypto native token that's associated with this and  I feel like as as token investors we are thirsty for good token economics particularly on the  revenue side of things and we talked about earlier how much revenue 3.5 million per day was being  generated by hyper liquid the story here I think Mike is that this value is actually accruing  to token holders we already talked about the fair launch and the distribution of this token can you  talk a little bit about the the buyback program that they have the burn program that they have and how  token holders are actually receiving this revenue in some form of value yeah and I think this this  is kind of coming back to what we were mentioning at the beginning and just how they're building trust  with not only the user base but now also with investors and people that are looking at maybe you  know buying the the hype token what's what's pretty interesting is not only are they you know printing  that cash they're using about 95% of it to go out and buy the hype token on the open market those  are not burned token so it's not that it's not being you know completely removed from the supply it  is being held by them in their their treasury so we don't know exactly you know what the plan is  for that but for now they're those those are tokens that are coming off the market and you know  they did about 92 million dollars of fees in July and they burnt they they bought back 90 million  of hype tokens so they are you know just out there there that's a constant bid in the market so not  only do they not have the VCs you know dumping potentially when when unlocks come in their  besting ends they're actually out there putting a bid in a floor you know on on the token as well  which is very interesting so this is a way that some of that revenue actually translates back at  least on paper to to token holders and reduce supply so I guess this is very similar to in the  equities world a share buyback some sort which is a very common you know investor friendly way  to actually distribute the gains that come from generally profits for equities types of companies  and this is not profits this is actually top line revenue right you're you're saying is a 90%  of top line revenue right now okay and that's going back to it essentially token buybacks right  going back to the treasury so the company balance sheet has it and I guess as a token holder  there's some sort of implication that you have some rights to that balance sheet it's not a legal  implication in the way that that equities would be but I think token holders are generally assuming  that they have rights some sort of distribution rights to the the treasury of of hyper liquid and so  that's how they're accruing this value yeah I think if you're a high holder like the way to think  about that is you know your your share of sort of the outstanding supply a circling supply of hype  is increasing right every time they go out and buy tokens on the open market you know  again they're not burning those tokens but this is very similar to how you would see like share  buybacks removing removing from removing shares from the circulating supply and then anybody who's  who holds those shares their their ownership is actually increasing relative so I think that's  the takeaway you don't have the legal rights you have as a shareholder but your you know relative  you know percentage ownership of the protocol is increasing when they're removing supply from the  market like that which I guess we should say is is better than what 99% of all tokens that exist out  there yes right just like revenue distribution here right it's yeah they have a fee switch that's  on they've a fee switch that's on and you know we've seen just you know a lot of pushback I think just  kind of back to the VCs we saw like meme coins coming out with lots of narratives around you know  no VCs and all this you know I think they're just combining that now with this you know this  really nice mechanism where there's like this automatic you know buyback of these tokens and  from from like a you know investor underwriting perspective like it introduces new ways to try  to understand you know what's going on and how to value the protocol like if you just sort of took  the annualized you know tokens that they bought back over the last year it comes out to like a 4.3  percent you know annualized buyback yield I know people are throwing out you know lots of  different terminologies around the yield yeah that's not actual yield that's being paid to you but  it's sort of like accruing into your ownership of the protocol in some way are there any like  guarantees as to how much they're going to buy back so is there any way to kind of model out  for guidance or do you just see after the fact I remember there was a time with the Binance chain  as it was called at the time 2020 2021 was like something like 25% of all Binance profits will be  would be used to buy back the the BNB token right so but that was I'm not sure actually I haven't  you know been back in the BNB chain to see if that that program is still in effect but it was  basically management guidance and arbitrarily coming up with a number and you know they can the  subject to revision in the futures at the same with with hyper liquid like you never know how much  they're going to buy back it's not an algorithmic thing it's kind of management discretion I think so  we weren't able to find any like documentation that they were where they were explicitly putting  that out there and it probably doesn't make sense for them to do that at this stage I think  there may come a time where they decide that they want to actually take some of those those fees  and invest in you know maybe there's maybe they want to hire more staff or just invest into their  operations and they may need that those funds at some point most startups you know are not you know  buying back their tokens less than a year after launching most of that are using any fees that they  can get from revenue and trying to drive that back into the business so that they can grow so this  is like an incredibly unique situation where they have the resources to grow this thing and they  don't need to take their revenues to and reinvest into the protocol right now so one thing that I  find is interesting when we're looking at these these assets and from a supply perspective is  the two sort of metrics we typically use are like fully diluted valuation which is all possible  tokens that are you know like mintable multiplied by the price right so you get your fully  diluted valuation that's this is really important when you're looking at other layer ones like  something like Ethereum or slana or or or Bitcoin it's like yeah important for that and then  there's market cap which is basically the tokens that are available not not locked up available  as flow multiplied by the price right and that gives you a sense of y'all okay how much is liquid  at this point in time but but these two numbers aren't I feel like a precise enough to actually  map on to what's going on in some of these tokens and maybe in particular something like hyper liquid  and I was reading an Artemis post that you just basically outlines another metric that we should  consider using that's using the traditional equities world that's not you know the total  fully diluted valuation and the market cap but it's basically outstanding shares we're outstanding  tokens you might call it outstanding supply in the crypto world which excludes everything that  would be owned by the hype foundation right so all the buyback tokens that they have excludes  but it does include the invested team balances and if you look at the hype supply you know and  you subtract all of the tokens that basically hype foundation owns you get a lower supply versus  you know the you know a fully diluted valuation and yeah so what do you think about using that  metric to or that that number for supply rather than some of the ones we we typically use I like  this framework that Artemis put out I think it makes sense and and it kind of like just raises you  know the question of I think every asset that you're analyzing in crypto all they all have different  token economic schemes they have different token allocations some do buybacks some don't so there  I think this is like every every asset needs to be analyzed sort of on its own but when you're  looking at something like hype I think this is particularly useful because of these buybacks you  need to factor that in somehow so so just taking the the amount of you know circulating supply  that's in the market right now we know that they are you know out in the market buying that back so  it makes sense to to pull that out and then of course you know the team is going to be you know  their besting schedules are coming up I believe those unlocks start in November and so you know  that should be factored it I think on the other side of it as well so. Ethereum's layer 2 universe  is exploding with choices but if you're looking for the best place to park and move your tokens  make your next stop unichain first liquidity unichain hosts the most liquid uniswap v4 deployment  on any layer 2 giving you deeper pools for flagship pairs like eth usdc more liquidity means  better prices less slippage and smoother swaps exactly what traders crave the numbers back it up  unichain leads all layer 2s in total value locked for uniswap v4 and it's not just a deep it's fast  and fully transparent purpose built to be the home base for defy and cross chain liquidity when  it comes to cost unichain is a no-brainer transaction fees come in about 95% cheaper than Ethereum  maintenance slashing the price of creating or accessing liquidity want to stay in the loop on unichain  visit unichain.org or follow at unichain on x for all the updates dgen started as a tightnic  community on farkcaster and organically grew into one of the top meme coins on base what began as  a simple idea tip anyone who joins the fun sparked an economy that turned into a movement the  community runs the show from the logo and the lower to funding and building ambitious ideas  together over one million dgen now power each other with their generosity creativity and ability  to get things done at the center is the dgen token it rewards engagement fuels tipping and drives  the marketplace for builders and fans that same energy gave rise to dgen chain a fast low cost  layer 3 for new projects and now the dgen app the easiest way to connect earn and participate in  decentralized social media with the built in wallet and real token utility and dgen the  has days on join dgen and get on the app weight list at www dot dgen dot tips all right so now we  get to the question evaluation so we you know went through the entire story of of hyper liquid and  we talked about the revenue talk about the platform product market fit uh it all seems fantastic  revenue the token has a story the question is what about at the current price right and uh  how do you answer that question with respect to valuation hyper liquid is it at at these prices  you know above 40 is this still a good buy or have we essentially missed it it's these these are  really hard questions to ask and I think it's really hard to sort of model forward you know revenues  and fundamentals and crypto because of the the cycles and so if you're just looking at this  and looking at like hyper liquids last you know 30 to 90 day performance and then trying to model  out from there I think you're probably gonna overshoot you're gonna it's gonna look really  undervalued if you kind of look at it right there because you're just kind of capturing the  the meat of the bull market and so this is a challenge and and what we try to do in the report  that we shared was just kind of look at like let's just look at actually what has happened instead  of try to look look forward and if you look at it from that perspective we didn't uh factor in  this like Artemis framework here with like backing out the the buybacks but you get to a price  of sales of around 22 or for hyper liquid right now okay um so that's like a little you know if  you're just like comparing that to um you know your average tech fintech high growth you know  that's like a little bit higher than than normal um if you're comparing it to like something like  you know either salana then it looks actually like extremely you know undervalued um so there's  different ways to look at this we looked at Coinbase Coinbase has a price of sales of around 10 um  and so there's there's different ways to to view this I think the way I think of it is like  that valuation seems pretty fair uh you know based on when you do that sort of 12 month lookback  um and then the other piece of it that needs to get factored in is now the build out of the EVM  and all these other applications that are going to drive users and fees also to the protocol so  you're adding in like another line of revenue to to the layer one itself um so you know hard to say  you know crypto valuations are you know can can can totally detach um from the fundamentals as well  and I would say this one the fundamentals support the the valuation today and it'll be interesting to  see you know if it actually does if it did detach then you're looking at like a a pretty big move  for hyper liquid at some point you know you know maybe later in this in this cycle potentially  what's kind of the annualized number right now I'd add a 12 month lookback or something maybe  more recent because like if you look at something like Coinbase Coinbase's market value of about 80  billion right that's the enterprise value on about seven billion in revenue I believe yeah yeah  so what's hyper liquid in in terms of annualized revenue on the annualized revenue I don't have it  in front of me it was 409 million over six months I want to say it was like between six and seven  hundred million or so uh from a 12 month perspective somewhere impressive impressive yes so but  but still I mean I guess we're in kind of the low billions maybe over a billion something like  that one up to billion whereas Coinbase is seven billion and Coinbase valuation is 80 billion versus  hyper liquid again it depends what we use I don't think it's right to use the fully diluted  valuation though here right so which is 44 billion yeah yeah it's probably somewhere between  market cap and fully diluted valuation so fairly valued I suppose in terms of a comp comparison  to Coinbase yeah I agree you don't want to use the fully diluted you know you can you can look at  that we kind of look at everything but yeah I think you want to you come in somewhere around where  the circulating supplies and you can actually adjust that down even for the the buybacks as well  so if you adjusted that down the price of sales probably coming in closer to maybe 15 16 somewhere  in that range which is pretty reasonable for you know like a publicly traded high growth  fintech company this is this thing is less than a year old it's growing like a weed so yeah I think  the fundamentals support you know that valuation I think as long as they continue to print  cash in those users stay and like that's always the big question is like if we go into a  better market what do these fundamentals you know look like is that are the revenues going to drop  90% you know what does that mean for the the valuation as well so I think that's always the big question  but you know if you're just looking at the performance of the last year it's it's the final the  fundamentals support I think especially when you look at crypto valuations it looks it does look  undervalued my my take on this too and maybe on the on the bullish side of things is the comparison  to L ones is probably not quite where I go where I'd probably go is a comparison to something like  tether and what's fascinating about the story like hyper liquid and the things that you can do  on chain is how fast how far how quickly you can scale on chain because again it's globally  available market liquidity it just like it's instant access to this and revenue per employee is a  key metric to kind of look at right so you look at hyper liquid hyper liquid has passed and  video apple even tether also meta in terms of revenue per employee per employee hyper liquid  revenue a hundred and two million dollars per employee nothing else is close of course tether  is very famously incredibly profitable per employee we had follow on the episode and he was like  yeah we do profits north of 10 billion we don't even batten eyelash I'm like how many employees  you have he's like 150 okay 93 million revenue per employee for tether okay the top two  companies in terms of revenue per employee if you call hyper liquid a company are hyper liquid  and tether the next up is only fans and that's 37 million per employee so incredibly profitable  as well so the level of scale that you can get with internet native on chain platforms  in the profitability levels are just off the charts incredible and so like if you're telling me that  you know what valuation metrics are somewhat like you know fast growing thin tech maybe a little bit  higher I'm like well okay this seems like a screaming buy because this is not growing like a fast  growing thin tech this is growing like an on chain product market fit scale to the world type of  company and the only thing that can slow it down is I don't know some sort of black swan regulation  even a crypto bear market right that presents sort of a buying opportunity if you believe that  hyper liquid can still stay ahead so I guess what we're I'm saying on the bull cases like nothing  really scales compared to crypto and that might be the the most bullish scenario here in the  and the story here I think so and if you're you know a developer entrepreneur you know sitting in web  to right now maybe you're you're in you know maybe we'll call them red ocean markets where there's  just you know lots of competition and it's really hard to get to scale and you look over the fans  and see what's happening in crypto I mean this is just incredible what can happen and the scale that  these companies can get to in such a short period of time with a global market and and sort of  this permissionless access it's got to be pretty exciting for for people to build I mean we saw this  with pump you know dot fawn and the amount of you know revenues that they're printing as well  so yeah crypto is enabling just these incredibly incredibly lean efficient scalable businesses and  I think that's the big takeaway yeah what's nice is this all comes in the form of a liquid token  that you can buy I mean you can't I wish we had exposure to tether there's no way to get that  right now they don't have a token right hyper liquid you do okay so in summary I'm curious what  are you personally doing here Mike so I know you've got the DeFi report portfolio and I mean are  you looking are you a buyer here or what are you doing personally so you know my strategy  historically I'm usually not super early to things it's I like to sort of do a lot of research  and we you know we waited to cut even cover hyper liquid after going through this research and  you know spending a lot of time playing around with the protocol itself we've decided that we're  actually going to add hyper liquid to our roster of ecosystems that we cover so that's  history been Bitcoin Ethan soul so that gives you an idea of like how strongly I feel about it  we're going to be releasing a report with our pro members tomorrow and kind of sharing  you know what we're doing in terms of portfolio management but generally speaking like the way  that I'm approaching this is to keep an eye on it you know as the EVM is now building on and  we're seeing a lot of energy around people that want to come and build on top of the L1 you know  we're going to continue to follow the story and I think this could get really interesting  potentially in in a bear market similar to like kind of what we saw with with with Solana hopefully  there isn't some issue with like an FTX that causes something to happen there but I this is  something that where we're sort of like probably going to I in the bear market interesting so  if I know you in your place you might be scaling into it a little bit now and definitely you know  sharpening your analyst edge looking all the on-chain data and scaling into it a little bit but  then really looking for bear market by type of opportunities that might come later because there's  no rush on this at some level right you could be a patient investor and build into value yeah yeah  I could totally see this you know it's I think we're almost at 50 billion FTV like you know we saw  some stuff in the last cycle sort of later stage of the cycle the things that a lot of stuff that  didn't pan out over the longer term I think this is hopefully different but it's it's definitely  possible that this thing could get a hundred billion you know FTV I would I would think this cycle  possibly even higher so well big listation if you want to see some of Mike's research is all on the  DeFi report the DeFi report dot IO the hyper liquid memo memo excuse me was a part of the  report that spawned this episode so go check that out Mike thanks so much for joining us today  thanks Rob got to let you know of course none of this has been financial advice crypto is risky you  could lose what you put in but we are headed west this is the frontier not for everyone but  we're glad you're with us in the bankless journey thanks a lot  you","word_count":12187,"segments":[{"start":0,"end":6.96,"text":" Hey bankless nation special episode for you today it's something that I've wanted to dig","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2262228260869565,"compression_ratio":1.7471698113207548,"no_speech_prob":0.408447265625,"words":[]},{"start":6.96,"end":11.92,"text":" into for some time what is the bull case for hype hype of course is the hyper liquid token","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2262228260869565,"compression_ratio":1.7471698113207548,"no_speech_prob":0.408447265625,"words":[]},{"start":11.92,"end":16.48,"text":" this is the perps exchange that is taking all of crypto by storm they also have an EVM","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2262228260869565,"compression_ratio":1.7471698113207548,"no_speech_prob":0.408447265625,"words":[]},{"start":16.48,"end":23.28,"text":" chain the question on my mind is is it too late to buy should I buy hype now or is it overvalued","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2262228260869565,"compression_ratio":1.7471698113207548,"no_speech_prob":0.408447265625,"words":[]},{"start":23.28,"end":28.560000000000002,"text":" uh that's the question overvalued or undervalued at current price and what is this project and also","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2262228260869565,"compression_ratio":1.7471698113207548,"no_speech_prob":0.408447265625,"words":[]},{"start":28.560000000000002,"end":35.120000000000005,"text":" what are the risks as a user what sort of property rights do I have and is hyper liquid a threat to","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1439967105263158,"compression_ratio":1.6182572614107884,"no_speech_prob":0.00359344482421875,"words":[]},{"start":35.120000000000005,"end":41.040000000000006,"text":" other layer ones something like a theorem or the L2s or Solana we get into all that and more","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1439967105263158,"compression_ratio":1.6182572614107884,"no_speech_prob":0.00359344482421875,"words":[]},{"start":41.040000000000006,"end":46,"text":" with our guest Michael NATO from the defy report before we get in want to shout out our friends","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1439967105263158,"compression_ratio":1.6182572614107884,"no_speech_prob":0.00359344482421875,"words":[]},{"start":46,"end":51.68000000000001,"text":" and sponsors over at sanctum they are not just the fourth largest Solana protocol they are one of the","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1439967105263158,"compression_ratio":1.6182572614107884,"no_speech_prob":0.00359344482421875,"words":[]},{"start":51.68,"end":58.32,"text":" leaders of Solana staking that is Solana liquid staking they're setting a new standard for token","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.07553372524752475,"compression_ratio":1.9015748031496063,"no_speech_prob":0.00572967529296875,"words":[]},{"start":58.32,"end":63.44,"text":" transparency in the space they've partnered with block works I don't know if you've seen this","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.07553372524752475,"compression_ratio":1.9015748031496063,"no_speech_prob":0.00572967529296875,"words":[]},{"start":63.44,"end":68.88,"text":" they have token transparency reports they have a native token called cloud and they became one of","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.07553372524752475,"compression_ratio":1.9015748031496063,"no_speech_prob":0.00572967529296875,"words":[]},{"start":68.88,"end":75.68,"text":" only two companies to score a perfect 40 out of 40 on block works token transparency framework","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.07553372524752475,"compression_ratio":1.9015748031496063,"no_speech_prob":0.00572967529296875,"words":[]},{"start":75.68,"end":81.44,"text":" and of course token transparency something that is essential for investors moving forward in crypto","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.07553372524752475,"compression_ratio":1.9015748031496063,"no_speech_prob":0.00572967529296875,"words":[]},{"start":81.44,"end":86.88,"text":" to give their stakeholders a deeper look at their progress they've just published a quarterly report","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09542410714285714,"compression_ratio":1.8421052631578947,"no_speech_prob":0.004131317138671875,"words":[]},{"start":86.88,"end":92.56,"text":" this might be a crypto native quarterly report the kind that you'd see out of tradify and we'll","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09542410714285714,"compression_ratio":1.8421052631578947,"no_speech_prob":0.004131317138671875,"words":[]},{"start":92.56,"end":97.44,"text":" include a link to that in the show notes is a comprehensive report that gives you a clear picture","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09542410714285714,"compression_ratio":1.8421052631578947,"no_speech_prob":0.004131317138671875,"words":[]},{"start":97.44,"end":102.88,"text":" of what they're up to and their business driver so if you're serious about due diligence go check","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09542410714285714,"compression_ratio":1.8421052631578947,"no_speech_prob":0.004131317138671875,"words":[]},{"start":102.88,"end":107.75999999999999,"text":" out sanctum go check out that token report you can't miss it there's a link in the show notes all","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09542410714285714,"compression_ratio":1.8421052631578947,"no_speech_prob":0.004131317138671875,"words":[]},{"start":107.76,"end":111.60000000000001,"text":" right guys we're talking about hype today we've got Michael from the defy report and you wrote","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09900568181818181,"compression_ratio":1.7473309608540926,"no_speech_prob":0.0263519287109375,"words":[]},{"start":111.60000000000001,"end":115.68,"text":" this memo over the weekend that I had a chance to read actually was published on Friday and I've","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09900568181818181,"compression_ratio":1.7473309608540926,"no_speech_prob":0.0263519287109375,"words":[]},{"start":115.68,"end":122.16000000000001,"text":" read it this weekend the hyper liquid memo is the hype warranted and I think we got to start here","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09900568181818181,"compression_ratio":1.7473309608540926,"no_speech_prob":0.0263519287109375,"words":[]},{"start":122.16000000000001,"end":128.72,"text":" with the objective truth which is hype is minting and printing a lot of money right now these revenue","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09900568181818181,"compression_ratio":1.7473309608540926,"no_speech_prob":0.0263519287109375,"words":[]},{"start":128.72,"end":135.04000000000002,"text":" charts look incredible what are we seeing on the hype revenue side from like daily fees perspective","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09900568181818181,"compression_ratio":1.7473309608540926,"no_speech_prob":0.0263519287109375,"words":[]},{"start":136,"end":140.4,"text":" yeah printing printing money I think is is the story here and it was something that we just","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11446707589285714,"compression_ratio":1.8053435114503817,"no_speech_prob":0.006900787353515625,"words":[]},{"start":140.4,"end":144.95999999999998,"text":" like kind of couldn't ignore so we've been kind of you know watching hyper liquid from a far","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11446707589285714,"compression_ratio":1.8053435114503817,"no_speech_prob":0.006900787353515625,"words":[]},{"start":144.95999999999998,"end":151.44,"text":" for a little while and the protocol just continues to to print cash it's a it's a purpose dex","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11446707589285714,"compression_ratio":1.8053435114503817,"no_speech_prob":0.006900787353515625,"words":[]},{"start":151.44,"end":155.84,"text":" and really start as an app chain and really started with a product focus and we're going to get","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11446707589285714,"compression_ratio":1.8053435114503817,"no_speech_prob":0.006900787353515625,"words":[]},{"start":155.84,"end":161.35999999999999,"text":" into I think the inception story which is really a lot of the story here but yeah just just really","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11446707589285714,"compression_ratio":1.8053435114503817,"no_speech_prob":0.006900787353515625,"words":[]},{"start":161.36,"end":167.12,"text":" you know making a lot of money and challenging you know the fees that some of these larger L1s","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15082236842105262,"compression_ratio":1.6565217391304348,"no_speech_prob":0.0012445449829101562,"words":[]},{"start":167.12,"end":173.28,"text":" are produced producing as well on the start we're seeing 3.5 million in daily fees that's what","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15082236842105262,"compression_ratio":1.6565217391304348,"no_speech_prob":0.0012445449829101562,"words":[]},{"start":173.28,"end":179.84,"text":" hyper liquid as kind of a protocol as a perps exchange is doing right now that's the revenue","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15082236842105262,"compression_ratio":1.6565217391304348,"no_speech_prob":0.0012445449829101562,"words":[]},{"start":179.84,"end":186.4,"text":" that is generating 3.5 per day yes yes and this has been on an upward trajectory it's kind of like","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15082236842105262,"compression_ratio":1.6565217391304348,"no_speech_prob":0.0012445449829101562,"words":[]},{"start":186.48000000000002,"end":191.44,"text":" doubled or tripled since the beginning of this year yes volumes are up open interest is up","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10686587591240876,"compression_ratio":1.8037383177570094,"no_speech_prob":0.0031223297119140625,"words":[]},{"start":191.44,"end":196.96,"text":" you know animal spirits are on chain right now and so yeah hyper liquid is really kind of attracting","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10686587591240876,"compression_ratio":1.8037383177570094,"no_speech_prob":0.0031223297119140625,"words":[]},{"start":196.96,"end":201.28,"text":" a lot of the energy and crypto right now I was talking to his Zeb on the roll up yesterday and","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10686587591240876,"compression_ratio":1.8037383177570094,"no_speech_prob":0.0031223297119140625,"words":[]},{"start":201.28,"end":205.68,"text":" we had some charge because it just sort of crescendo if it kind of hit a moment it felt like last","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10686587591240876,"compression_ratio":1.8037383177570094,"no_speech_prob":0.0031223297119140625,"words":[]},{"start":205.68,"end":209.76,"text":" week where people were noticing all of this activity on on hype and of course every time there's","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10686587591240876,"compression_ratio":1.8037383177570094,"no_speech_prob":0.0031223297119140625,"words":[]},{"start":209.76,"end":214.56,"text":" a big trade because it's all on chain you can see the big trade and so they'll be like oh Bitcoin","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10686587591240876,"compression_ratio":1.8037383177570094,"no_speech_prob":0.0031223297119140625,"words":[]},{"start":214.56,"end":220.48,"text":" well you know swapping this amount of Bitcoin for like some other asset and everyone notices it","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10293612637362637,"compression_ratio":1.7236842105263157,"no_speech_prob":0.00251007080078125,"words":[]},{"start":220.48,"end":226.16,"text":" everyone sees it because it's in the billions of dollars so here's a tweet hype is doing 36 percent","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10293612637362637,"compression_ratio":1.7236842105263157,"no_speech_prob":0.00251007080078125,"words":[]},{"start":226.16,"end":232.48000000000002,"text":" of all crypto revenues while its market cap is 1.2 percent of total crypto market cap and here's a","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10293612637362637,"compression_ratio":1.7236842105263157,"no_speech_prob":0.00251007080078125,"words":[]},{"start":232.48000000000002,"end":238.64000000000001,"text":" chart where you see hyper liquid this is in a dark green here compared to all of the other sources","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10293612637362637,"compression_ratio":1.7236842105263157,"no_speech_prob":0.00251007080078125,"words":[]},{"start":238.88000000000002,"end":245.60000000000002,"text":" of network revenue compared to other layer 1 chains and other layer 2s etc and that's a massive","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15755208333333334,"compression_ratio":1.784037558685446,"no_speech_prob":0.0015974044799804688,"words":[]},{"start":245.60000000000002,"end":251.60000000000002,"text":" amount of all of crypto's revenue that's now happening on hype another way to look at this is","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15755208333333334,"compression_ratio":1.784037558685446,"no_speech_prob":0.0015974044799804688,"words":[]},{"start":251.60000000000002,"end":258.08000000000004,"text":" compare it to directly to salana and ethereum this is a posting no one is si-opsing mean to","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15755208333333334,"compression_ratio":1.784037558685446,"no_speech_prob":0.0015974044799804688,"words":[]},{"start":258.08000000000004,"end":264.56,"text":" thinking hype is anywhere near fair value because this is a poster comparing the value the revenue","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15755208333333334,"compression_ratio":1.784037558685446,"no_speech_prob":0.0015974044799804688,"words":[]},{"start":264.56,"end":269.76,"text":" generated by ethereum and salana to hyper liquid and over this time period ethereum ethereum was","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11488486842105264,"compression_ratio":1.9368932038834952,"no_speech_prob":0.0166473388671875,"words":[]},{"start":269.76,"end":277.92,"text":" like 3.3 million salana 1 million and hyper liquid like 28 million okay and you're seeing some of","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11488486842105264,"compression_ratio":1.9368932038834952,"no_speech_prob":0.0166473388671875,"words":[]},{"start":277.92,"end":284.16,"text":" those stats too when you when you put together your memo this is a six month fees this is hyper liquid","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11488486842105264,"compression_ratio":1.9368932038834952,"no_speech_prob":0.0166473388671875,"words":[]},{"start":284.96,"end":293.12,"text":" fees in terms of millions 409 million versus ethereum over the last six months 332 million and salana","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11488486842105264,"compression_ratio":1.9368932038834952,"no_speech_prob":0.0166473388671875,"words":[]},{"start":293.12,"end":301.2,"text":" 233 million so what is this story telling you it's telling me that hyper liquid has a really","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08542239010989011,"compression_ratio":1.6782608695652175,"no_speech_prob":0.0017271041870117188,"words":[]},{"start":301.2,"end":307.68,"text":" really active like core user base what's pretty interesting about this is there's only a those fees","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08542239010989011,"compression_ratio":1.6782608695652175,"no_speech_prob":0.0017271041870117188,"words":[]},{"start":307.68,"end":314.08,"text":" of 409 million over the last six months is coming from a subset of users that is in the range of","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08542239010989011,"compression_ratio":1.6782608695652175,"no_speech_prob":0.0017271041870117188,"words":[]},{"start":314.08,"end":320.8,"text":" like 40 to 60 thousand per day so the story is interesting because when when you zoom out I mean","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08542239010989011,"compression_ratio":1.6782608695652175,"no_speech_prob":0.0017271041870117188,"words":[]},{"start":320.8,"end":326.08,"text":" they launched less than a year ago to be printing that much money over over six months is pretty wild","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.0946546052631579,"compression_ratio":1.6778242677824269,"no_speech_prob":0.00263214111328125,"words":[]},{"start":326.08,"end":332.8,"text":" yeah but it's coming from a very kind of small subset of users that are that are very active on","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.0946546052631579,"compression_ratio":1.6778242677824269,"no_speech_prob":0.00263214111328125,"words":[]},{"start":332.8,"end":342.24,"text":" hyper liquid and actually Artemis has some data on the average revenue per user and it's like 1.6k per","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.0946546052631579,"compression_ratio":1.6778242677824269,"no_speech_prob":0.00263214111328125,"words":[]},{"start":342.24,"end":349.76,"text":" month that that hyper liquid users are spending on the protocol so this is it you have a chart right","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.0946546052631579,"compression_ratio":1.6778242677824269,"no_speech_prob":0.00263214111328125,"words":[]},{"start":349.76,"end":358.15999999999997,"text":" so 1.6 1.6k per user per month per user yeah per month that's a monthly chart that doesn't feel","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13536509900990099,"compression_ratio":1.7981220657276995,"no_speech_prob":0.0013246536254882812,"words":[]},{"start":358.15999999999997,"end":365.44,"text":" like a lot but I guess that's way more than any other crypto app for sure yeah I mean when we look","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13536509900990099,"compression_ratio":1.7981220657276995,"no_speech_prob":0.0013246536254882812,"words":[]},{"start":365.44,"end":369.68,"text":" at some of this for for you know some of the other larger L1s it's it's it's definitely much","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13536509900990099,"compression_ratio":1.7981220657276995,"no_speech_prob":0.0013246536254882812,"words":[]},{"start":369.68,"end":375.12,"text":" lower than that you know much more users on these these larger chains but what it's interesting","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13536509900990099,"compression_ratio":1.7981220657276995,"no_speech_prob":0.0013246536254882812,"words":[]},{"start":375.12,"end":379.92,"text":" to us that that's basically paying the all the bills for the entire ecosystem this is you know","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10505157766990292,"compression_ratio":1.7769516728624535,"no_speech_prob":0.004398345947265625,"words":[]},{"start":379.92,"end":384.64,"text":" kind of our understanding of how crypto trading works there's tends to be pretty concentrated","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10505157766990292,"compression_ratio":1.7769516728624535,"no_speech_prob":0.004398345947265625,"words":[]},{"start":385.52,"end":391.36,"text":" subset of really active users that drive most of of the economics and we're certainly seeing","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10505157766990292,"compression_ratio":1.7769516728624535,"no_speech_prob":0.004398345947265625,"words":[]},{"start":391.36,"end":396.48,"text":" that that play out on hyperlicker right now these are like the whales okay so anyway the story here","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10505157766990292,"compression_ratio":1.7769516728624535,"no_speech_prob":0.004398345947265625,"words":[]},{"start":396.48,"end":401.84000000000003,"text":" the objective truth is that hype is printing money right now there's a massive amount of revenue","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10505157766990292,"compression_ratio":1.7769516728624535,"no_speech_prob":0.004398345947265625,"words":[]},{"start":401.92,"end":407.20000000000005,"text":" I want to maybe for the rest of this episode talk to you about the the subjective question","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10718047752808989,"compression_ratio":1.7123287671232876,"no_speech_prob":0.00251007080078125,"words":[]},{"start":407.20000000000005,"end":412.8,"text":" for the investor for the analyst in the space which is at the current market price is hype","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10718047752808989,"compression_ratio":1.7123287671232876,"no_speech_prob":0.00251007080078125,"words":[]},{"start":412.8,"end":419.20000000000005,"text":" a buy is it overvalued or is it undervalued because certainly if you look at the charts you know","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10718047752808989,"compression_ratio":1.7123287671232876,"no_speech_prob":0.00251007080078125,"words":[]},{"start":419.20000000000005,"end":426.32000000000005,"text":" we can see this like max charts it's definitely gone up quite a bit from about you know November","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10718047752808989,"compression_ratio":1.7123287671232876,"no_speech_prob":0.00251007080078125,"words":[]},{"start":427.28,"end":432.96,"text":" of twenty twenty four the price of hype was six dollars and fifty cents and now we're almost","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.17320478723404256,"compression_ratio":1.6784140969162995,"no_speech_prob":0.008056640625,"words":[]},{"start":432.96,"end":441.52,"text":" above where or above forty so almost forty five and so this a massive appreciation in less than a","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.17320478723404256,"compression_ratio":1.6784140969162995,"no_speech_prob":0.008056640625,"words":[]},{"start":441.52,"end":446.08,"text":" year's time so it's kind of a question well Mike I don't know man it's cool to see all the revenue","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.17320478723404256,"compression_ratio":1.6784140969162995,"no_speech_prob":0.008056640625,"words":[]},{"start":446.08,"end":451.12,"text":" but are we late to the game I guess you can look at the fully diluted valuation and you got","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.17320478723404256,"compression_ratio":1.6784140969162995,"no_speech_prob":0.008056640625,"words":[]},{"start":451.12,"end":457.36,"text":" forty four billion right here the market cap that's just it tokens that are outstanding is is","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11754918981481481,"compression_ratio":1.8976377952755905,"no_speech_prob":0.003482818603515625,"words":[]},{"start":457.36,"end":462.24,"text":" a twelve billion and then I guess if you look at the top crypto market cap it's not in the type","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11754918981481481,"compression_ratio":1.8976377952755905,"no_speech_prob":0.003482818603515625,"words":[]},{"start":462.24,"end":467.68,"text":" top ten right now but it is number seventeen so hype is number number seventeen there so there's","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11754918981481481,"compression_ratio":1.8976377952755905,"no_speech_prob":0.003482818603515625,"words":[]},{"start":467.68,"end":473.92,"text":" always the question of a valuation maybe to answer that question we should talk a little bit about","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11754918981481481,"compression_ratio":1.8976377952755905,"no_speech_prob":0.003482818603515625,"words":[]},{"start":473.92,"end":479.92,"text":" the inception story and then talk about the product and and just unpack this a bit more so maybe","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11754918981481481,"compression_ratio":1.8976377952755905,"no_speech_prob":0.003482818603515625,"words":[]},{"start":480.08000000000004,"end":486.24,"text":" starting there with the inception story of of hype so you said it's only been active for a year","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13873626373626374,"compression_ratio":1.7366071428571428,"no_speech_prob":0.00011593103408813477,"words":[]},{"start":486.24,"end":492.16,"text":" or so how did this project come to be what is it yeah so you know Genesis Genesis event when they","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13873626373626374,"compression_ratio":1.7366071428571428,"no_speech_prob":0.00011593103408813477,"words":[]},{"start":492.88,"end":497.68,"text":" you know drop the token and did the big air drop that was in last November so less less than a year","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13873626373626374,"compression_ratio":1.7366071428571428,"no_speech_prob":0.00011593103408813477,"words":[]},{"start":497.68,"end":503.44,"text":" the protocols been around for longer and they had early users that got those tokens but this is","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13873626373626374,"compression_ratio":1.7366071428571428,"no_speech_prob":0.00011593103408813477,"words":[]},{"start":503.44,"end":509.76,"text":" like a really big part of this the story to me they launched at a time when I think there are a","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15018284574468085,"compression_ratio":1.6623376623376624,"no_speech_prob":0.001132965087890625,"words":[]},{"start":509.76,"end":516.32,"text":" lot of perps traders that were looking for an alternative to to Binance are sorry to FTX in the","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15018284574468085,"compression_ratio":1.6623376623376624,"no_speech_prob":0.001132965087890625,"words":[]},{"start":516.32,"end":523.6,"text":" aftermath of FTX and what they're offering here is basically a centralized exchange sort of Binance","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15018284574468085,"compression_ratio":1.6623376623376624,"no_speech_prob":0.001132965087890625,"words":[]},{"start":523.6,"end":530.24,"text":" like experience but but on chain where you get the self-custody you still get still get that","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15018284574468085,"compression_ratio":1.6623376623376624,"no_speech_prob":0.001132965087890625,"words":[]},{"start":530.24,"end":536.64,"text":" performance but they paired that product with this incredible inception story which I think is","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09609375,"compression_ratio":1.7990654205607477,"no_speech_prob":0.0004801750183105469,"words":[]},{"start":536.64,"end":542.88,"text":" probably the the best story since you know Ethereum launched I would think and what they did was","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09609375,"compression_ratio":1.7990654205607477,"no_speech_prob":0.0004801750183105469,"words":[]},{"start":542.88,"end":549.6,"text":" they they dropped thirty thirty one percent of the token allocation to their early users that was","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09609375,"compression_ratio":1.7990654205607477,"no_speech_prob":0.0004801750183105469,"words":[]},{"start":549.6,"end":556.08,"text":" at like a three dollar you know hype price when they when they drop that token and it was about","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09609375,"compression_ratio":1.7990654205607477,"no_speech_prob":0.0004801750183105469,"words":[]},{"start":556.08,"end":562.48,"text":" 1.2 billion dollars of wealth creation that they they gave away to their users so they they created","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08024796195652174,"compression_ratio":1.7212389380530972,"no_speech_prob":0.00130462646484375,"words":[]},{"start":562.48,"end":569.6800000000001,"text":" they bought a lot of loyalty I would say right off right off the bat and they did this with zero","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08024796195652174,"compression_ratio":1.7212389380530972,"no_speech_prob":0.00130462646484375,"words":[]},{"start":569.6800000000001,"end":575.2,"text":" you know VCs no angel investors like they really it seems to me like you know they're trying to","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08024796195652174,"compression_ratio":1.7212389380530972,"no_speech_prob":0.00130462646484375,"words":[]},{"start":575.2,"end":582.5600000000001,"text":" solve for you know a great product and like a focus on users and and doing so building trust you","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08024796195652174,"compression_ratio":1.7212389380530972,"no_speech_prob":0.00130462646484375,"words":[]},{"start":582.5600000000001,"end":588.5600000000001,"text":" know with with their community and so I think they've done a really good job of this and this is","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09112278761061947,"compression_ratio":1.8522727272727273,"no_speech_prob":0.0014772415161132812,"words":[]},{"start":588.5600000000001,"end":593.5200000000001,"text":" created I think a flywheel when you combine it with the product that is very interesting and we'll","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09112278761061947,"compression_ratio":1.8522727272727273,"no_speech_prob":0.0014772415161132812,"words":[]},{"start":593.5200000000001,"end":598.8800000000001,"text":" get into sort of what's being built there and it's kind of growing into a layer one ecosystem now","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09112278761061947,"compression_ratio":1.8522727272727273,"no_speech_prob":0.0014772415161132812,"words":[]},{"start":598.8800000000001,"end":603.2800000000001,"text":" but this you you really can't you really got to focus on this because it's created so much loyalty","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09112278761061947,"compression_ratio":1.8522727272727273,"no_speech_prob":0.0014772415161132812,"words":[]},{"start":603.2800000000001,"end":608.4000000000001,"text":" then you have a really loud community on crypto twitter that are now evangelists for the product","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09112278761061947,"compression_ratio":1.8522727272727273,"no_speech_prob":0.0014772415161132812,"words":[]},{"start":608.48,"end":612.8,"text":" and it just kind of kicks off an interesting flywheel with the way that they they launched the product","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13550884955752213,"compression_ratio":1.832699619771863,"no_speech_prob":0.003482818603515625,"words":[]},{"start":612.8,"end":617.4399999999999,"text":" so you're saying this is the one maybe one of the best token inception stories as far as","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13550884955752213,"compression_ratio":1.832699619771863,"no_speech_prob":0.003482818603515625,"words":[]},{"start":617.4399999999999,"end":623.28,"text":" quote unquote fair launch that we've seen in in a long time maybe since something like a theory","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13550884955752213,"compression_ratio":1.832699619771863,"no_speech_prob":0.003482818603515625,"words":[]},{"start":623.28,"end":629.28,"text":" I mean you're saying because there's no VCs there's no angels there's like the focus is on users","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13550884955752213,"compression_ratio":1.832699619771863,"no_speech_prob":0.003482818603515625,"words":[]},{"start":629.28,"end":635.4399999999999,"text":" and the the whales that bring liquidity to this platform and they got all of the token so there's","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13550884955752213,"compression_ratio":1.832699619771863,"no_speech_prob":0.003482818603515625,"words":[]},{"start":635.44,"end":641.36,"text":" not that you know typical VC cell pressure you know the 12 to 24 month unlocks although I believe","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13490513392857142,"compression_ratio":1.952,"no_speech_prob":0.0018672943115234375,"words":[]},{"start":641.36,"end":646.8800000000001,"text":" that the hype founders in the hype team does have token unlocks is that correct correct yeah so they've","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13490513392857142,"compression_ratio":1.952,"no_speech_prob":0.0018672943115234375,"words":[]},{"start":646.8800000000001,"end":655.12,"text":" got almost 24% and that they're investing well some of their unlocks are starting in November so","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13490513392857142,"compression_ratio":1.952,"no_speech_prob":0.0018672943115234375,"words":[]},{"start":655.12,"end":658.08,"text":" their investing schedule starts some of those unlocks are going to start to leak out they're","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13490513392857142,"compression_ratio":1.952,"no_speech_prob":0.0018672943115234375,"words":[]},{"start":658.08,"end":661.84,"text":" starting to be some talk you know in the market are they going to sell are they going to jump on","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13490513392857142,"compression_ratio":1.952,"no_speech_prob":0.0018672943115234375,"words":[]},{"start":661.84,"end":666.24,"text":" the community I think they put some stuff out that they're going to limit the amount that their","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09984923245614036,"compression_ratio":1.7753623188405796,"no_speech_prob":0.0012254714965820312,"words":[]},{"start":666.24,"end":671.2,"text":" team actually can sell but yeah I think this is very interesting because a lot of times when you're","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09984923245614036,"compression_ratio":1.7753623188405796,"no_speech_prob":0.0012254714965820312,"words":[]},{"start":671.2,"end":675.2,"text":" you're studying a project you really have to pay attention to you know how might how many of the","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09984923245614036,"compression_ratio":1.7753623188405796,"no_speech_prob":0.0012254714965820312,"words":[]},{"start":675.2,"end":680.5600000000001,"text":" tokens went to VCs what are those unlocks schedules look like we've seen we've seen a lot of charts","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09984923245614036,"compression_ratio":1.7753623188405796,"no_speech_prob":0.0012254714965820312,"words":[]},{"start":680.5600000000001,"end":685.6,"text":" in crypto where after that year and especially if you're in a bear market when those unlocks come","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09984923245614036,"compression_ratio":1.7753623188405796,"no_speech_prob":0.0012254714965820312,"words":[]},{"start":686.5600000000001,"end":691.6,"text":" you it's a tough time to be holding the token and so the you know in sort of eliminating all","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.16638513513513514,"compression_ratio":1.6925795053003534,"no_speech_prob":0.00307464599609375,"words":[]},{"start":691.6,"end":695.6800000000001,"text":" that they're building a lot of trust with not only the users but also people that might want to","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.16638513513513514,"compression_ratio":1.6925795053003534,"no_speech_prob":0.00307464599609375,"words":[]},{"start":695.6800000000001,"end":701.2,"text":" invest in this protocol in the Wild West of DeFi stability and innovation are everything which is","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.16638513513513514,"compression_ratio":1.6925795053003534,"no_speech_prob":0.00307464599609375,"words":[]},{"start":701.2,"end":706.32,"text":" why you should check out Frax Finance the protocol revolutionizing stablecoins DeFi and Rolex the","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.16638513513513514,"compression_ratio":1.6925795053003534,"no_speech_prob":0.00307464599609375,"words":[]},{"start":706.32,"end":711.28,"text":" core of Frax Finance is Frax USD which is backed by BlackRock's institutional middle fund Frax","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.16638513513513514,"compression_ratio":1.6925795053003534,"no_speech_prob":0.00307464599609375,"words":[]},{"start":711.28,"end":717.1999999999999,"text":" designed Frax USD for besting class yields across DeFi T-bills and carry trade returns all in one","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14679276315789475,"compression_ratio":1.731060606060606,"no_speech_prob":0.0035381317138671875,"words":[]},{"start":717.1999999999999,"end":721.68,"text":" just head to Frax.com then stake it to earn some of the best yields in DeFi want even more","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14679276315789475,"compression_ratio":1.731060606060606,"no_speech_prob":0.0035381317138671875,"words":[]},{"start":721.68,"end":726.88,"text":" bridge your Frax USD over to the Frax steel layer two for the same yield plus Frax steel points","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14679276315789475,"compression_ratio":1.731060606060606,"no_speech_prob":0.0035381317138671875,"words":[]},{"start":726.88,"end":731.1999999999999,"text":" and explore Frax steel's diverse layer two ecosystem with protocols like curve convex","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14679276315789475,"compression_ratio":1.731060606060606,"no_speech_prob":0.0035381317138671875,"words":[]},{"start":731.1999999999999,"end":736.4,"text":" and more all rewarding early adopters Frax isn't just a protocol it's a digital nation","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14679276315789475,"compression_ratio":1.731060606060606,"no_speech_prob":0.0035381317138671875,"words":[]},{"start":736.4,"end":741.76,"text":" powered by the F-XS token and governed by a global community acquire F-XS through Frax.com","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1713627049180328,"compression_ratio":1.667857142857143,"no_speech_prob":0.04022216796875,"words":[]},{"start":741.76,"end":746.9599999999999,"text":" or your go-to decks stake it and help shape Frax Nations future ready to join the forefront of DeFi","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1713627049180328,"compression_ratio":1.667857142857143,"no_speech_prob":0.04022216796875,"words":[]},{"start":746.9599999999999,"end":752.4,"text":" visit Frax.com now to start earning with Frax USD and staked Frax USD and for bankless listeners","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1713627049180328,"compression_ratio":1.667857142857143,"no_speech_prob":0.04022216796875,"words":[]},{"start":752.4,"end":757.6,"text":" you can use Frax.com slash r slash bankless when bridging to Frax steel for exclusive","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1713627049180328,"compression_ratio":1.667857142857143,"no_speech_prob":0.04022216796875,"words":[]},{"start":757.6,"end":762.0799999999999,"text":" Fraxal perks and boosted rewards imagine a world where traditional finance meets the power of","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1713627049180328,"compression_ratio":1.667857142857143,"no_speech_prob":0.04022216796875,"words":[]},{"start":762.08,"end":766.96,"text":" blockchain seamlessly that's what mantle is pioneering with blockchain for banking a revolutionary","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.20246848739495799,"compression_ratio":1.7576687116564418,"no_speech_prob":0.006900787353515625,"words":[]},{"start":766.96,"end":771.44,"text":" new category at the intersection of trad five and web three at the heart is you are the world's","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.20246848739495799,"compression_ratio":1.7576687116564418,"no_speech_prob":0.006900787353515625,"words":[]},{"start":771.44,"end":775.76,"text":" first money out built fully on chain it gives you a Swiss iBand account blending fiat currencies","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.20246848739495799,"compression_ratio":1.7576687116564418,"no_speech_prob":0.006900787353515625,"words":[]},{"start":775.76,"end":779.9200000000001,"text":" like the euro the Swiss franc the United States dollar or the reminbey with crypto all in one","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.20246848739495799,"compression_ratio":1.7576687116564418,"no_speech_prob":0.006900787353515625,"words":[]},{"start":779.9200000000001,"end":784.5600000000001,"text":" place enjoy real world usability and blockchains trust and programmability transactions","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.20246848739495799,"compression_ratio":1.7576687116564418,"no_speech_prob":0.006900787353515625,"words":[]},{"start":784.5600000000001,"end":789.6,"text":" post directly to the blockchain compatible with trad five rails impact with integrated DeFi futures","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.20246848739495799,"compression_ratio":1.7576687116564418,"no_speech_prob":0.006900787353515625,"words":[]},{"start":789.6,"end":794.08,"text":" you are transforms mantle network into the ultimate platform for on chain financial services","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.19647606382978725,"compression_ratio":1.6974169741697418,"no_speech_prob":0.0031719207763671875,"words":[]},{"start":794.08,"end":800.08,"text":" unifying payments trading and assets like the mi4 the me's protocol and functions fbtc","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.19647606382978725,"compression_ratio":1.6974169741697418,"no_speech_prob":0.0031719207763671875,"words":[]},{"start":800.08,"end":804.5600000000001,"text":" backed by developer grants ecosystem incentives and top distribution through the you are at","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.19647606382978725,"compression_ratio":1.6974169741697418,"no_speech_prob":0.0031719207763671875,"words":[]},{"start":804.5600000000001,"end":809.9200000000001,"text":" reward stations and buy bit launch pool for mnt holders every economic activity in you are","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.19647606382978725,"compression_ratio":1.6974169741697418,"no_speech_prob":0.0031719207763671875,"words":[]},{"start":809.9200000000001,"end":815.44,"text":" drives value back to you embodying the entire stack and future growth of this super app ecosystem","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.19647606382978725,"compression_ratio":1.6974169741697418,"no_speech_prob":0.0031719207763671875,"words":[]},{"start":815.44,"end":820.08,"text":" follow mantle on x at mantle underscore official for the latest updates on blockchain for banking","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.22120949074074073,"compression_ratio":1.8045977011494252,"no_speech_prob":0.1380615234375,"words":[]},{"start":820.08,"end":826.48,"text":" that's x.com slash mantle underscore official okay so a nice clean cap table that's user focused","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.22120949074074073,"compression_ratio":1.8045977011494252,"no_speech_prob":0.1380615234375,"words":[]},{"start":826.48,"end":831.6,"text":" cleat clean launch for the token let's talk about the product itself so when i pull up hyper","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.22120949074074073,"compression_ratio":1.8045977011494252,"no_speech_prob":0.1380615234375,"words":[]},{"start":831.6,"end":837.0400000000001,"text":" liquid it looks like an exchange basically it looks like something i'd seen you know coinbase","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.22120949074074073,"compression_ratio":1.8045977011494252,"no_speech_prob":0.1380615234375,"words":[]},{"start":837.0400000000001,"end":842.8800000000001,"text":" or crack in or or finance or back to the day maybe an ftx right i see charts i see things","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.22120949074074073,"compression_ratio":1.8045977011494252,"no_speech_prob":0.1380615234375,"words":[]},{"start":843.2,"end":848.88,"text":" all crypto assets i can buy and sell i can see my portfolio it looks essentially like an exchange","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13379934210526315,"compression_ratio":1.696035242290749,"no_speech_prob":0.0136260986328125,"words":[]},{"start":848.88,"end":854.88,"text":" now all of this is on chain and the product it seems like the central product is you can buy","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13379934210526315,"compression_ratio":1.696035242290749,"no_speech_prob":0.0136260986328125,"words":[]},{"start":854.88,"end":860.96,"text":" spot i believe but it's perps right which is really bitmex and crypto pioneered a fantastic way","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13379934210526315,"compression_ratio":1.696035242290749,"no_speech_prob":0.0136260986328125,"words":[]},{"start":860.96,"end":867.52,"text":" to kind of lever up on your positions as well and if you want to you know four x five x ten x long","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13379934210526315,"compression_ratio":1.696035242290749,"no_speech_prob":0.0136260986328125,"words":[]},{"start":867.52,"end":872,"text":" you can do that on this platform it's probably cryptos most like strongest","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2110252808988764,"compression_ratio":1.719626168224299,"no_speech_prob":0.003482818603515625,"words":[]},{"start":872.56,"end":879.52,"text":" um uh product that it's that it that it's built and they have laser focused on the perps market so","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2110252808988764,"compression_ratio":1.719626168224299,"no_speech_prob":0.003482818603515625,"words":[]},{"start":880.48,"end":887.04,"text":" it's interesting to though because mic there've been many tries at creating on chain bitmex on chain","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2110252808988764,"compression_ratio":1.719626168224299,"no_speech_prob":0.003482818603515625,"words":[]},{"start":887.84,"end":894.64,"text":" finance perps in the past and some have had levels of success i remember past cycle dy dx was","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.2110252808988764,"compression_ratio":1.719626168224299,"no_speech_prob":0.003482818603515625,"words":[]},{"start":894.72,"end":901.6,"text":" attracting a lot of the on chain perps liquidity it was still nowhere in size compared to an ftx or","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13948567708333334,"compression_ratio":1.7004405286343611,"no_speech_prob":0.00164794921875,"words":[]},{"start":901.6,"end":908.08,"text":" a binance but um it was doing fairly well now this product from hyperliquid seems to be competing","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13948567708333334,"compression_ratio":1.7004405286343611,"no_speech_prob":0.00164794921875,"words":[]},{"start":908.08,"end":915.12,"text":" with the big boys so i was looking last week and i think hyperliquid was like number two just","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13948567708333334,"compression_ratio":1.7004405286343611,"no_speech_prob":0.00164794921875,"words":[]},{"start":915.12,"end":922.08,"text":" to binance binance was a little bit higher in terms of spot bitcoin volume on a particular day","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13948567708333334,"compression_ratio":1.7004405286343611,"no_speech_prob":0.00164794921875,"words":[]},{"start":922.08,"end":926.4000000000001,"text":" so it's competing with all of the big centralized exchanges and the experience that you have you","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1191748903508772,"compression_ratio":1.8426966292134832,"no_speech_prob":0.0021152496337890625,"words":[]},{"start":926.4000000000001,"end":932.48,"text":" connect to crypto wallet of course so you could use a rabbi or metamask or even a fan to my believe","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1191748903508772,"compression_ratio":1.8426966292134832,"no_speech_prob":0.0021152496337890625,"words":[]},{"start":932.48,"end":937.84,"text":" but it feels like you're on a centralized exchange and you have centralized exchange levels of liquidity","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1191748903508772,"compression_ratio":1.8426966292134832,"no_speech_prob":0.0021152496337890625,"words":[]},{"start":937.84,"end":942.72,"text":" so what accounts for the product success here i think i think that's it i think they solved this","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1191748903508772,"compression_ratio":1.8426966292134832,"no_speech_prob":0.0021152496337890625,"words":[]},{"start":942.72,"end":948.24,"text":" you know sort of sex like experience with high throughput it's it's got a really nice ux it's","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1191748903508772,"compression_ratio":1.8426966292134832,"no_speech_prob":0.0021152496337890625,"words":[]},{"start":948.24,"end":952.5600000000001,"text":" fairly easy you know you do have to bridge over so you know but it's fairly easy to get get in","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12555803571428573,"compression_ratio":1.8353413654618473,"no_speech_prob":0.00818634033203125,"words":[]},{"start":952.5600000000001,"end":957.2,"text":" there and i think that's really it there's they've they've they've given you the sex like","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12555803571428573,"compression_ratio":1.8353413654618473,"no_speech_prob":0.00818634033203125,"words":[]},{"start":957.2,"end":963.2,"text":" experience but also you have self-custody of the assets and that helps to build trust obviously in","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12555803571428573,"compression_ratio":1.8353413654618473,"no_speech_prob":0.00818634033203125,"words":[]},{"start":963.2,"end":969.04,"text":" the in the wake of ftx they've also just i think done a really good job of listing new product","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12555803571428573,"compression_ratio":1.8353413654618473,"no_speech_prob":0.00818634033203125,"words":[]},{"start":969.52,"end":973.28,"text":" relevant new tokens you know pretty quickly when they come out and so whenever","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12555803571428573,"compression_ratio":1.8353413654618473,"no_speech_prob":0.00818634033203125,"words":[]},{"start":974.24,"end":979.1999999999999,"text":" um people want to be trading the the new and kind of fresh asset that comes out they're getting","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09524147727272728,"compression_ratio":1.924,"no_speech_prob":0.00711822509765625,"words":[]},{"start":979.1999999999999,"end":984.16,"text":" that up there they're capturing that market um they've got like an interesting referral system","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09524147727272728,"compression_ratio":1.924,"no_speech_prob":0.00711822509765625,"words":[]},{"start":984.16,"end":990.4,"text":" as well so you now have like phantom and axiom uh users that can trade through them and they get","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09524147727272728,"compression_ratio":1.924,"no_speech_prob":0.00711822509765625,"words":[]},{"start":990.4,"end":994.72,"text":" and what it's actually kind of an interesting business model where they're basically sending user","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09524147727272728,"compression_ratio":1.924,"no_speech_prob":0.00711822509765625,"words":[]},{"start":994.72,"end":1000.24,"text":" flow user liquidity to hyperliquid and then hyperliquid is actually kicking back a referral fee","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09524147727272728,"compression_ratio":1.924,"no_speech_prob":0.00711822509765625,"words":[]},{"start":1000.32,"end":1004.96,"text":" to to these platforms which is very interesting model so you know you you kind of solve","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15391355140186916,"compression_ratio":1.8532818532818534,"no_speech_prob":0.001987457275390625,"words":[]},{"start":1005.76,"end":1010.8,"text":" for distribution through some of these larger wallets through some of these more attractive trading","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15391355140186916,"compression_ratio":1.8532818532818534,"no_speech_prob":0.001987457275390625,"words":[]},{"start":1010.8,"end":1016.16,"text":" terminals like like axiom on salana which is like one of the fastest growing apps on salana so i","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15391355140186916,"compression_ratio":1.8532818532818534,"no_speech_prob":0.001987457275390625,"words":[]},{"start":1016.16,"end":1020.72,"text":" think you know it's it's just seems really well thought out in terms of how they've approached the","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15391355140186916,"compression_ratio":1.8532818532818534,"no_speech_prob":0.001987457275390625,"words":[]},{"start":1020.72,"end":1025.2,"text":" market and now they have these integrations that's driving more liquidity more more users to the","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15391355140186916,"compression_ratio":1.8532818532818534,"no_speech_prob":0.001987457275390625,"words":[]},{"start":1025.2,"end":1030.88,"text":" platform as well and there are they just able to move faster than the the Binance for instance","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15986570247933884,"compression_ratio":1.924901185770751,"no_speech_prob":0.00051116943359375,"words":[]},{"start":1030.88,"end":1035.28,"text":" like who are the big perps i guess centralize these changes is it is it primarily Binance at this","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15986570247933884,"compression_ratio":1.924901185770751,"no_speech_prob":0.00051116943359375,"words":[]},{"start":1035.28,"end":1039.68,"text":" point and they're just able to move faster than them so you've got Binance you've got buy bit you've","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15986570247933884,"compression_ratio":1.924901185770751,"no_speech_prob":0.00051116943359375,"words":[]},{"start":1039.68,"end":1044.8,"text":" got okay acts those are kind of like the three kings i would say of the perp market you do have","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15986570247933884,"compression_ratio":1.924901185770751,"no_speech_prob":0.00051116943359375,"words":[]},{"start":1044.8,"end":1051.76,"text":" uh cme uh which has has futures trading now as well but yeah i think i think they are moving fast","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15986570247933884,"compression_ratio":1.924901185770751,"no_speech_prob":0.00051116943359375,"words":[]},{"start":1051.92,"end":1056.56,"text":" they've got a really loyal loyal base i mean there's only 11 employees which which we can probably","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08045085877862596,"compression_ratio":2.0278745644599305,"no_speech_prob":0.007007598876953125,"words":[]},{"start":1056.56,"end":1061.52,"text":" talk about at some point so they're obviously a very talented team to build it to execute all this","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08045085877862596,"compression_ratio":2.0278745644599305,"no_speech_prob":0.007007598876953125,"words":[]},{"start":1062.08,"end":1066.64,"text":" and yeah i think i think they've got the flywheel and once you get the flywheel and you get the","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08045085877862596,"compression_ratio":2.0278745644599305,"no_speech_prob":0.007007598876953125,"words":[]},{"start":1066.64,"end":1070,"text":" when you when you have a users what's what's interesting about this approach and we'll get to","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08045085877862596,"compression_ratio":2.0278745644599305,"no_speech_prob":0.007007598876953125,"words":[]},{"start":1070,"end":1074.72,"text":" sort of where they're going with building out the ecosystem but when you start with a base of","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08045085877862596,"compression_ratio":2.0278745644599305,"no_speech_prob":0.007007598876953125,"words":[]},{"start":1074.72,"end":1080.32,"text":" really active users that's really really interesting because it attracts builders right builders are","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08045085877862596,"compression_ratio":2.0278745644599305,"no_speech_prob":0.007007598876953125,"words":[]},{"start":1080.32,"end":1086.24,"text":" attracted to users and liquidity and you know they have been able to bootstrap all that without","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10121984649122807,"compression_ratio":1.7970479704797049,"no_speech_prob":0.00046539306640625,"words":[]},{"start":1086.24,"end":1092.48,"text":" vcs without uh with this kind of pure inception story so it feels like they've got a really really","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10121984649122807,"compression_ratio":1.7970479704797049,"no_speech_prob":0.00046539306640625,"words":[]},{"start":1092.48,"end":1098.6399999999999,"text":" strong foundation to now build this out as well so okay so there is an ecosystem story then and we'll","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10121984649122807,"compression_ratio":1.7970479704797049,"no_speech_prob":0.00046539306640625,"words":[]},{"start":1098.6399999999999,"end":1103.2,"text":" get to that in a minute but before you mentioned um the founders and the team it's a small team","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10121984649122807,"compression_ratio":1.7970479704797049,"no_speech_prob":0.00046539306640625,"words":[]},{"start":1103.2,"end":1107.4399999999998,"text":" talented team so you sent me over this uh interview over the weekend i haven't had a chance to","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10121984649122807,"compression_ratio":1.7970479704797049,"no_speech_prob":0.00046539306640625,"words":[]},{"start":1107.44,"end":1113.44,"text":" fully get through it uh which with his uh jeff he's one of the the co-founders of hyper liquid","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1259943181818182,"compression_ratio":1.8643410852713178,"no_speech_prob":0.0015974044799804688,"words":[]},{"start":1113.44,"end":1118,"text":" what what do you see when you see when when you think about the hyper liquid team what makes this","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1259943181818182,"compression_ratio":1.8643410852713178,"no_speech_prob":0.0015974044799804688,"words":[]},{"start":1118,"end":1123.92,"text":" team special and how have they been able to execute like this yeah this is interesting i have to","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1259943181818182,"compression_ratio":1.8643410852713178,"no_speech_prob":0.0015974044799804688,"words":[]},{"start":1123.92,"end":1129.3600000000001,"text":" say like after watching this this interview with with jeff i was getting more interested in the","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1259943181818182,"compression_ratio":1.8643410852713178,"no_speech_prob":0.0015974044799804688,"words":[]},{"start":1129.3600000000001,"end":1134.64,"text":" project probably more bullish on the products myself just hearing his story but his you know he","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1259943181818182,"compression_ratio":1.8643410852713178,"no_speech_prob":0.0015974044799804688,"words":[]},{"start":1134.64,"end":1139.92,"text":" is coming from a background uh from from quatt trading so he started off at Hudson actually i think","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.16204637096774194,"compression_ratio":1.6936170212765957,"no_speech_prob":0.00307464599609375,"words":[]},{"start":1139.92,"end":1145.2,"text":" he was an engineer at google for a little bit then he went to Hudson River trading which is a large","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.16204637096774194,"compression_ratio":1.6936170212765957,"no_speech_prob":0.00307464599609375,"words":[]},{"start":1145.92,"end":1151.2800000000002,"text":" wall street firm and i think it was there for like less than a year or so and then somehow ended","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.16204637096774194,"compression_ratio":1.6936170212765957,"no_speech_prob":0.00307464599609375,"words":[]},{"start":1151.2800000000002,"end":1159.44,"text":" up you know playing around in defi you know in 2021 2020 and i think he just realized how inefficient","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.16204637096774194,"compression_ratio":1.6936170212765957,"no_speech_prob":0.00307464599609375,"words":[]},{"start":1159.92,"end":1165.2,"text":" the the crypto markets were um developed some algorithms probably made some money you know trading","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12547348484848486,"compression_ratio":1.8976377952755905,"no_speech_prob":0.0064849853515625,"words":[]},{"start":1165.8400000000001,"end":1171.76,"text":" and and i think you actually like retired uh we went went did some travel and and then during","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12547348484848486,"compression_ratio":1.8976377952755905,"no_speech_prob":0.0064849853515625,"words":[]},{"start":1171.76,"end":1176.64,"text":" that experience realized that he wanted to build something much bigger and much more meaningful","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12547348484848486,"compression_ratio":1.8976377952755905,"no_speech_prob":0.0064849853515625,"words":[]},{"start":1176.64,"end":1181.3600000000001,"text":" and that's kind of where where hyper liquid came from so these guys you know understand markets","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12547348484848486,"compression_ratio":1.8976377952755905,"no_speech_prob":0.0064849853515625,"words":[]},{"start":1181.3600000000001,"end":1185.68,"text":" they understand trading they understand perps like that they're they're they're the right guys to","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12547348484848486,"compression_ratio":1.8976377952755905,"no_speech_prob":0.0064849853515625,"words":[]},{"start":1185.68,"end":1191.04,"text":" build this type of ecosystem i think and uh yeah i would recommend people you know check out just","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08307052752293578,"compression_ratio":1.828996282527881,"no_speech_prob":0.0015726089477539062,"words":[]},{"start":1191.04,"end":1196.0800000000002,"text":" whatever resources you can find on these guys because i think um that's that's always part of the","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08307052752293578,"compression_ratio":1.828996282527881,"no_speech_prob":0.0015726089477539062,"words":[]},{"start":1196.0800000000002,"end":1201.1200000000001,"text":" analysis whenever we're looking at at a project is who is actually behind this thing and what are","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08307052752293578,"compression_ratio":1.828996282527881,"no_speech_prob":0.0015726089477539062,"words":[]},{"start":1201.1200000000001,"end":1206.16,"text":" their motivations do they seem like mission driven type of people that are trying to build something","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08307052752293578,"compression_ratio":1.828996282527881,"no_speech_prob":0.0015726089477539062,"words":[]},{"start":1206.16,"end":1211.68,"text":" you know for the greater good uh of crypto and i think i think um you know i feel like that these","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08307052752293578,"compression_ratio":1.828996282527881,"no_speech_prob":0.0015726089477539062,"words":[]},{"start":1211.76,"end":1218.16,"text":" are the right people to build a project like this let's talk about the ecosystem so at first hyper","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12331321022727272,"compression_ratio":1.6666666666666667,"no_speech_prob":0.00040435791015625,"words":[]},{"start":1218.16,"end":1223.8400000000001,"text":" liquid was an app chain for this perps exchange and that's been very successful they've attracted a","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12331321022727272,"compression_ratio":1.6666666666666667,"no_speech_prob":0.00040435791015625,"words":[]},{"start":1223.8400000000001,"end":1230.64,"text":" ton of volume there uh you know like a massive amount of of size uh then more more recently they","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12331321022727272,"compression_ratio":1.6666666666666667,"no_speech_prob":0.00040435791015625,"words":[]},{"start":1230.64,"end":1236.5600000000002,"text":" actually launch your launch day general purpose you know call it maybe a layer one called the hyper","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12331321022727272,"compression_ratio":1.6666666666666667,"no_speech_prob":0.00040435791015625,"words":[]},{"start":1236.6399999999999,"end":1243.12,"text":" EVM hyper liquid sits on top of the hyper EVM at least i believe that's the case but the","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.16849226804123713,"compression_ratio":1.6652173913043478,"no_speech_prob":0.0012845993041992188,"words":[]},{"start":1243.12,"end":1250.56,"text":" hyper EVM is kind of a a general purpose EVM chain so other apps can come and uh essentially out","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.16849226804123713,"compression_ratio":1.6652173913043478,"no_speech_prob":0.0012845993041992188,"words":[]},{"start":1250.56,"end":1255.76,"text":" i think per maybe i'm using the right term here permissionlessly deploy you can see on defy llama","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.16849226804123713,"compression_ratio":1.6652173913043478,"no_speech_prob":0.0012845993041992188,"words":[]},{"start":1255.76,"end":1260.72,"text":" a number of these different apps uh pendals there for instance you know pendal and mortho these are","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.16849226804123713,"compression_ratio":1.6652173913043478,"no_speech_prob":0.0012845993041992188,"words":[]},{"start":1260.72,"end":1266.16,"text":" from you know other defy protocols um and you can see some of them are liquid staking some of","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.0987293956043956,"compression_ratio":1.748878923766816,"no_speech_prob":0.00039196014404296875,"words":[]},{"start":1266.16,"end":1272,"text":" them are yield generating protocols there's an entire what we call like a defy economy that seems","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.0987293956043956,"compression_ratio":1.748878923766816,"no_speech_prob":0.00039196014404296875,"words":[]},{"start":1272,"end":1278.4,"text":" to be springing up on top of hyper liquid this i knows this tweet from the ether dot five ventures","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.0987293956043956,"compression_ratio":1.748878923766816,"no_speech_prob":0.00039196014404296875,"words":[]},{"start":1278.4,"end":1285.52,"text":" folks and they're saying we're going to just straight up back hyper liquid ecosystem projects we're","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.0987293956043956,"compression_ratio":1.748878923766816,"no_speech_prob":0.00039196014404296875,"words":[]},{"start":1285.52,"end":1290.8799999999999,"text":" going to tackle you know credit collateral and yield like cdp type projects on top of hyper liquid","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13201349431818182,"compression_ratio":1.7488584474885844,"no_speech_prob":0.0003352165222167969,"words":[]},{"start":1291.6,"end":1296.8,"text":" stake type liquidity front ends and and swaps and i think the premise behind this correct me if","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13201349431818182,"compression_ratio":1.7488584474885844,"no_speech_prob":0.0003352165222167969,"words":[]},{"start":1296.8,"end":1303.2,"text":" i'm wrong is that hyper liquid has been able to create a primitive a crypto primitive a money","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13201349431818182,"compression_ratio":1.7488584474885844,"no_speech_prob":0.0003352165222167969,"words":[]},{"start":1303.2,"end":1308.6399999999999,"text":" Lego if you will of liquidity and now we have all this liquidity apps can build on top of that","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13201349431818182,"compression_ratio":1.7488584474885844,"no_speech_prob":0.0003352165222167969,"words":[]},{"start":1308.64,"end":1315.76,"text":" liquidity and do other defy finance types of things for its users and so they've opened that up","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10098071808510638,"compression_ratio":1.6455696202531647,"no_speech_prob":0.00426483154296875,"words":[]},{"start":1315.76,"end":1322,"text":" and that's what the hyper EVM is i should at it's got to be it's super performant very very scalable","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10098071808510638,"compression_ratio":1.6455696202531647,"no_speech_prob":0.00426483154296875,"words":[]},{"start":1322,"end":1327.3600000000001,"text":" we'll talk about the uh the centralization versus decentralization aspects a little bit later but","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10098071808510638,"compression_ratio":1.6455696202531647,"no_speech_prob":0.00426483154296875,"words":[]},{"start":1327.3600000000001,"end":1334.8000000000002,"text":" this is really like fast block times uh you know i i don't know how much in terms of throughput","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10098071808510638,"compression_ratio":1.6455696202531647,"no_speech_prob":0.00426483154296875,"words":[]},{"start":1334.8,"end":1340.08,"text":" transactions per second but far more performant than um the layer two's that that we generally see","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12423270089285714,"compression_ratio":1.8131868131868132,"no_speech_prob":0.002216339111328125,"words":[]},{"start":1340.08,"end":1345.44,"text":" including even the the highly performant ones like salana so talk about this ecosystem a bit more","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12423270089285714,"compression_ratio":1.8131868131868132,"no_speech_prob":0.002216339111328125,"words":[]},{"start":1346.48,"end":1352.3999999999999,"text":" yeah so what's really interesting to me about this is like most L ones you know start out most of them","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12423270089285714,"compression_ratio":1.8131868131868132,"no_speech_prob":0.002216339111328125,"words":[]},{"start":1352.3999999999999,"end":1357.84,"text":" have you know that to raise capital and then they have to use the sort of bc money to find ways to","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12423270089285714,"compression_ratio":1.8131868131868132,"no_speech_prob":0.002216339111328125,"words":[]},{"start":1357.84,"end":1363.36,"text":" incentivize other builders to come in to to get liquidity which then attracts more builders they","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12423270089285714,"compression_ratio":1.8131868131868132,"no_speech_prob":0.002216339111328125,"words":[]},{"start":1363.3600000000001,"end":1369.1200000000001,"text":" don't start with an app they don't start with an app yeah they started with a great product um and","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14852430555555557,"compression_ratio":1.8685446009389672,"no_speech_prob":0.0004582405090332031,"words":[]},{"start":1369.1200000000001,"end":1375.6000000000001,"text":" that's essentially the option of what of what the perp stacks deck is and that's really interesting","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14852430555555557,"compression_ratio":1.8685446009389672,"no_speech_prob":0.0004582405090332031,"words":[]},{"start":1375.6000000000001,"end":1381.44,"text":" to me because they've done that all organically now they have users now they have liquidity and so","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14852430555555557,"compression_ratio":1.8685446009389672,"no_speech_prob":0.0004582405090332031,"words":[]},{"start":1381.44,"end":1387.2,"text":" now the flywheel of attracting other builder builders to this ecosystem has has kicked off with them","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14852430555555557,"compression_ratio":1.8685446009389672,"no_speech_prob":0.0004582405090332031,"words":[]},{"start":1387.2,"end":1394.0800000000002,"text":" launching the hyper EVM and the way i sort of think about this is like if you just sort of analyze","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10457785087719298,"compression_ratio":1.830188679245283,"no_speech_prob":0.00208282470703125,"words":[]},{"start":1394.0800000000002,"end":1399.68,"text":" hyper liquid from the app chain perspective it's quite impressive uh the amount of fees are doing","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10457785087719298,"compression_ratio":1.830188679245283,"no_speech_prob":0.00208282470703125,"words":[]},{"start":1399.68,"end":1404.16,"text":" the way that they you know brought this to market the the sort of trust and loyalty that they've","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10457785087719298,"compression_ratio":1.830188679245283,"no_speech_prob":0.00208282470703125,"words":[]},{"start":1404.16,"end":1409.3600000000001,"text":" already established in the market in a short period of time and now you sort of open this up and","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10457785087719298,"compression_ratio":1.830188679245283,"no_speech_prob":0.00208282470703125,"words":[]},{"start":1409.3600000000001,"end":1415.1200000000001,"text":" you've got this EVM and out of the entire you know ethereum ecosystem everybody that has a EVM","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10457785087719298,"compression_ratio":1.830188679245283,"no_speech_prob":0.00208282470703125,"words":[]},{"start":1415.1200000000001,"end":1421.6000000000001,"text":" based wallet can now start to access these apps um and you're going to see i think more more liquidity","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1278023097826087,"compression_ratio":1.7901785714285714,"no_speech_prob":0.0029811859130859375,"words":[]},{"start":1421.6000000000001,"end":1427.6000000000001,"text":" come in here more users and uh it was interesting to me even as we published a report on hype last week","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1278023097826087,"compression_ratio":1.7901785714285714,"no_speech_prob":0.0029811859130859375,"words":[]},{"start":1427.6000000000001,"end":1431.7600000000002,"text":" and had people reaching out to me that are building stuff on hype and it was just interesting to see","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1278023097826087,"compression_ratio":1.7901785714285714,"no_speech_prob":0.0029811859130859375,"words":[]},{"start":1432.4,"end":1438.72,"text":" you know the energy i think that's that's forming around around this ecosystem um so this now","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1278023097826087,"compression_ratio":1.7901785714285714,"no_speech_prob":0.0029811859130859375,"words":[]},{"start":1438.72,"end":1444.72,"text":" becomes a much bigger story of like okay should should hyper liquid be should we think about","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13458806818181818,"compression_ratio":1.8773946360153257,"no_speech_prob":0.0016736984252929688,"words":[]},{"start":1444.72,"end":1451.1200000000001,"text":" hyper liquid's future value more relative to like a large like l want right is that actually the game","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13458806818181818,"compression_ratio":1.8773946360153257,"no_speech_prob":0.0016736984252929688,"words":[]},{"start":1451.1200000000001,"end":1455.92,"text":" that they're playing and it's not really that they're competing with you know dy dx and you know","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13458806818181818,"compression_ratio":1.8773946360153257,"no_speech_prob":0.0016736984252929688,"words":[]},{"start":1455.92,"end":1461.6000000000001,"text":" Jupiter perps and and drift but maybe they're actually trying to build out something much much bigger","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13458806818181818,"compression_ratio":1.8773946360153257,"no_speech_prob":0.0016736984252929688,"words":[]},{"start":1461.6000000000001,"end":1467.3600000000001,"text":" here um so i i think this is this is quite interesting and the way that they've approached it is","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13458806818181818,"compression_ratio":1.8773946360153257,"no_speech_prob":0.0016736984252929688,"words":[]},{"start":1467.3600000000001,"end":1471.2,"text":" sort of that path dependence of doing it with users and liquidity first instead of","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12507102272727272,"compression_ratio":1.7671755725190839,"no_speech_prob":0.0010318756103515625,"words":[]},{"start":1471.2,"end":1476.0000000000002,"text":" with bcs is very interesting yeah and on this ecosystem question it is the case that we've seen","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12507102272727272,"compression_ratio":1.7671755725190839,"no_speech_prob":0.0010318756103515625,"words":[]},{"start":1476.0000000000002,"end":1481.7600000000002,"text":" chains like this before the bnb chain maybe comes to mind it's kind of a Binance type of chain","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12507102272727272,"compression_ratio":1.7671755725190839,"no_speech_prob":0.0010318756103515625,"words":[]},{"start":1481.7600000000002,"end":1488.72,"text":" but it's its own you know less restricted kind of uh more open sandbox for defi portal calls to","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12507102272727272,"compression_ratio":1.7671755725190839,"no_speech_prob":0.0010318756103515625,"words":[]},{"start":1488.72,"end":1493.68,"text":" to come in that's kind of what hyper liquid is doing here although hyper liquid is going even","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12507102272727272,"compression_ratio":1.7671755725190839,"no_speech_prob":0.0010318756103515625,"words":[]},{"start":1493.68,"end":1499.28,"text":" further in putting all of their liquidity on chain whereas Binance has central order books um so","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12657683486238533,"compression_ratio":1.8764478764478765,"no_speech_prob":0.0010166168212890625,"words":[]},{"start":1499.28,"end":1505.2,"text":" that's an interesting analog here but when we start doing layer one comparables it does kind of big","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12657683486238533,"compression_ratio":1.8764478764478765,"no_speech_prob":0.0010166168212890625,"words":[]},{"start":1505.2,"end":1511.3600000000001,"text":" the question of okay what are the property rights of the layer one in questions of hyper ledger","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12657683486238533,"compression_ratio":1.8764478764478765,"no_speech_prob":0.0010166168212890625,"words":[]},{"start":1511.3600000000001,"end":1517.76,"text":" I sorry hyper liquid is a layer one then like there's questions about how decentralized is it","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12657683486238533,"compression_ratio":1.8764478764478765,"no_speech_prob":0.0010166168212890625,"words":[]},{"start":1517.76,"end":1522.8,"text":" and when I think of the question of decentralization I do think of it in terms of less like are you","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12657683486238533,"compression_ratio":1.8764478764478765,"no_speech_prob":0.0010166168212890625,"words":[]},{"start":1523.68,"end":1528.24,"text":" you know following this particular protocol or not and and more of what are the the rights","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1336388221153846,"compression_ratio":1.7592592592592593,"no_speech_prob":0.0008168220520019531,"words":[]},{"start":1528.24,"end":1533.68,"text":" and abilities of users particularly around this question of of stealing censorship and freezing","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1336388221153846,"compression_ratio":1.7592592592592593,"no_speech_prob":0.0008168220520019531,"words":[]},{"start":1533.68,"end":1538.72,"text":" okay so the SCF if you will and so the question is and I was asking this question over the weekend","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1336388221153846,"compression_ratio":1.7592592592592593,"no_speech_prob":0.0008168220520019531,"words":[]},{"start":1538.72,"end":1544.8,"text":" if hyper liquid goes down can users withdraw their funds in a layer two we know how that would work","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1336388221153846,"compression_ratio":1.7592592592592593,"no_speech_prob":0.0008168220520019531,"words":[]},{"start":1544.8,"end":1551.12,"text":" as long as the theorem secures your kind of property rights if uh arbitrum or optimism or","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1336388221153846,"compression_ratio":1.7592592592592593,"no_speech_prob":0.0008168220520019531,"words":[]},{"start":1551.1200000000001,"end":1556.88,"text":" base were to turn evil as a user you have the abilities kind of withdraw your assets back to a","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.07841981132075472,"compression_ratio":1.7859778597785978,"no_speech_prob":0.0003981590270996094,"words":[]},{"start":1556.88,"end":1562.3200000000002,"text":" theorem back to the layer one um unclear what happens in hyper liquid in this case but they have","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.07841981132075472,"compression_ratio":1.7859778597785978,"no_speech_prob":0.0003981590270996094,"words":[]},{"start":1562.3200000000002,"end":1567.6000000000001,"text":" their own validator set and also if hyper liquid turned evil or maybe the the government shut them","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.07841981132075472,"compression_ratio":1.7859778597785978,"no_speech_prob":0.0003981590270996094,"words":[]},{"start":1567.6000000000001,"end":1574.24,"text":" down start to seize their like validators could they steal user funds and these are pretty relevant","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.07841981132075472,"compression_ratio":1.7859778597785978,"no_speech_prob":0.0003981590270996094,"words":[]},{"start":1574.24,"end":1579.3600000000001,"text":" questions I think when you're starting in the layer one game so what have you uncovered about","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.07841981132075472,"compression_ratio":1.7859778597785978,"no_speech_prob":0.0003981590270996094,"words":[]},{"start":1579.3600000000001,"end":1584.48,"text":" these questions in the level of decentralization that exists in hyper liquid today yeah so I","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10163483796296297,"compression_ratio":1.8588235294117648,"no_speech_prob":0.0005192756652832031,"words":[]},{"start":1584.48,"end":1588.96,"text":" think there's there's a few ways to think about you know decentralization and all those questions","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10163483796296297,"compression_ratio":1.8588235294117648,"no_speech_prob":0.0005192756652832031,"words":[]},{"start":1588.96,"end":1595.3600000000001,"text":" that you just uh posed right which are extremely relevant for crypto users um I think the way that","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10163483796296297,"compression_ratio":1.8588235294117648,"no_speech_prob":0.0005192756652832031,"words":[]},{"start":1595.3600000000001,"end":1600.4,"text":" I think of this is you know they started uh a little less than a little less than a year ago","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10163483796296297,"compression_ratio":1.8588235294117648,"no_speech_prob":0.0005192756652832031,"words":[]},{"start":1600.96,"end":1606.4,"text":" and they've got about 24 validators today so that is actually we just we're talking we just","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10163483796296297,"compression_ratio":1.8588235294117648,"no_speech_prob":0.0005192756652832031,"words":[]},{"start":1606.4,"end":1612.96,"text":" mentioned binats that's kind of like similar to what binats you know chain chain has um so pretty","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11460658482142858,"compression_ratio":1.7672727272727273,"no_speech_prob":0.0012254714965820312,"words":[]},{"start":1612.96,"end":1618.0800000000002,"text":" centralized I would say like you know almost more like a permissioned block chain at this point","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11460658482142858,"compression_ratio":1.7672727272727273,"no_speech_prob":0.0012254714965820312,"words":[]},{"start":1618.0800000000002,"end":1623.44,"text":" because a lot of those validators are being permissioned in it's not fully uh open source and","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11460658482142858,"compression_ratio":1.7672727272727273,"no_speech_prob":0.0012254714965820312,"words":[]},{"start":1623.44,"end":1629.1200000000001,"text":" permissionless just yet I believe that they're moving in in that direction and and there's reasons why","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11460658482142858,"compression_ratio":1.7672727272727273,"no_speech_prob":0.0012254714965820312,"words":[]},{"start":1629.1200000000001,"end":1634.3200000000002,"text":" they sort of want to keep that close uh right now and the early days of the protocol so I think","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11460658482142858,"compression_ratio":1.7672727272727273,"no_speech_prob":0.0012254714965820312,"words":[]},{"start":1634.32,"end":1640.3999999999999,"text":" from that perspective if those validators you know like you said tried to collude or you know","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.07331452546296297,"compression_ratio":1.8964143426294822,"no_speech_prob":0.0003006458282470703,"words":[]},{"start":1640.3999999999999,"end":1645.84,"text":" turned evil um you know I think users are trusting that they're not going to do that and that","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.07331452546296297,"compression_ratio":1.8964143426294822,"no_speech_prob":0.0003006458282470703,"words":[]},{"start":1645.84,"end":1649.6,"text":" you know that would kill their entire project that they're building and maybe their incentives","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.07331452546296297,"compression_ratio":1.8964143426294822,"no_speech_prob":0.0003006458282470703,"words":[]},{"start":1649.6,"end":1654.3999999999999,"text":" are aligned up to do something like that um but because of the early stage of it you do have you","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.07331452546296297,"compression_ratio":1.8964143426294822,"no_speech_prob":0.0003006458282470703,"words":[]},{"start":1654.3999999999999,"end":1660.8,"text":" know not a ton of validators which um diminishes the the decentralization of the project and the","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.07331452546296297,"compression_ratio":1.8964143426294822,"no_speech_prob":0.0003006458282470703,"words":[]},{"start":1660.8,"end":1667.68,"text":" security uh of the project so that's that's number one uh number two is because it's its own","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.0884046052631579,"compression_ratio":1.807511737089202,"no_speech_prob":0.00006502866744995117,"words":[]},{"start":1667.68,"end":1673.52,"text":" you know layer one ecosystem to get your assets over there to to use a protocol um you need to","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.0884046052631579,"compression_ratio":1.807511737089202,"no_speech_prob":0.00006502866744995117,"words":[]},{"start":1673.52,"end":1679.28,"text":" bridge in uh to do so um there's a few different bridges in ways to get in there most of that is","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.0884046052631579,"compression_ratio":1.807511737089202,"no_speech_prob":0.00006502866744995117,"words":[]},{"start":1679.28,"end":1686,"text":" coming through arbitrum uh ethereum layer two and so um what's happening there is you know users are","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.0884046052631579,"compression_ratio":1.807511737089202,"no_speech_prob":0.00006502866744995117,"words":[]},{"start":1686.08,"end":1691.84,"text":" essentially yeah depositing into the arbitrum bridge and then there's like an accounting mechanism","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.110616238317757,"compression_ratio":1.9959514170040487,"no_speech_prob":0.0003006458282470703,"words":[]},{"start":1691.84,"end":1695.44,"text":" on the other side of that for hyperlip good where they're there essentially essentially minting","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.110616238317757,"compression_ratio":1.9959514170040487,"no_speech_prob":0.0003006458282470703,"words":[]},{"start":1695.44,"end":1700.72,"text":" you a version of that in their chain and then keeping all the accounting on the hyperlip with ledger","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.110616238317757,"compression_ratio":1.9959514170040487,"no_speech_prob":0.0003006458282470703,"words":[]},{"start":1700.72,"end":1706.96,"text":" from there um and so yes you are trusting that bridge right if something happened with that bridge","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.110616238317757,"compression_ratio":1.9959514170040487,"no_speech_prob":0.0003006458282470703,"words":[]},{"start":1706.96,"end":1712.24,"text":" or that bridge was hacked um similar to you know hacks that we've seen at other bridges especially","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.110616238317757,"compression_ratio":1.9959514170040487,"no_speech_prob":0.0003006458282470703,"words":[]},{"start":1712.72,"end":1718,"text":" you know in the kind of 21 cycle we saw a lot of this i think bridging has become much more secure","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09340734649122807,"compression_ratio":1.8093385214007782,"no_speech_prob":0.0012645721435546875,"words":[]},{"start":1718,"end":1723.52,"text":" in this cycle but if you did have something um then user funds are potentially at loss you know via","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09340734649122807,"compression_ratio":1.8093385214007782,"no_speech_prob":0.0012645721435546875,"words":[]},{"start":1723.52,"end":1727.68,"text":" that via that bridge i think those are the two things um that i would think of and","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09340734649122807,"compression_ratio":1.8093385214007782,"no_speech_prob":0.0012645721435546875,"words":[]},{"start":1728.64,"end":1735.52,"text":" for for me like it's really difficult as an l1 to just sort of come to market and have","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09340734649122807,"compression_ratio":1.8093385214007782,"no_speech_prob":0.0012645721435546875,"words":[]},{"start":1735.52,"end":1738.88,"text":" you know like a million validators like some of these like ethereum does and some of these other","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09340734649122807,"compression_ratio":1.8093385214007782,"no_speech_prob":0.0012645721435546875,"words":[]},{"start":1738.88,"end":1745.2,"text":" more mature layer one ecosystem so there is a process to decentralization i think they're it with","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15364583333333334,"compression_ratio":1.6946902654867257,"no_speech_prob":0.00045108795166015625,"words":[]},{"start":1745.2,"end":1752.72,"text":" that comes some trust in the early days for for users so yeah that makes sense i mean so the","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15364583333333334,"compression_ratio":1.6946902654867257,"no_speech_prob":0.00045108795166015625,"words":[]},{"start":1752.72,"end":1758.0800000000002,"text":" i guess the long and short of it is right now those validators can steal sensor frees um there's","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15364583333333334,"compression_ratio":1.6946902654867257,"no_speech_prob":0.00045108795166015625,"words":[]},{"start":1758.0800000000002,"end":1764.88,"text":" some level of permissioning you know some of it may not be the hyperlip liquid team it could be","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15364583333333334,"compression_ratio":1.6946902654867257,"no_speech_prob":0.00045108795166015625,"words":[]},{"start":1764.96,"end":1770.8000000000002,"text":" somewhat um distributed and somewhat to centralize so you have the validators at play there you also","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1825284090909091,"compression_ratio":1.8063063063063063,"no_speech_prob":0.0007915496826171875,"words":[]},{"start":1770.8000000000002,"end":1776.16,"text":" have this bridge risk as well and you also have underlying arbitrum risk what's kind of interesting","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1825284090909091,"compression_ratio":1.8063063063063063,"no_speech_prob":0.0007915496826171875,"words":[]},{"start":1776.16,"end":1781.1200000000001,"text":" is um you know i used to say about centralized exchanges like you should use centralized exchanges","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1825284090909091,"compression_ratio":1.8063063063063063,"no_speech_prob":0.0007915496826171875,"words":[]},{"start":1781.1200000000001,"end":1786.64,"text":" like a public bathroom right get in do your business and then get out um there's a difference between","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1825284090909091,"compression_ratio":1.8063063063063063,"no_speech_prob":0.0007915496826171875,"words":[]},{"start":1786.72,"end":1794.4,"text":" getting into hyperliquid and doing some trading uh and then getting out and leaving your funds","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09557845744680851,"compression_ratio":1.900497512437811,"no_speech_prob":0.0005793571472167969,"words":[]},{"start":1794.4,"end":1801.1200000000001,"text":" on hyperliquid for a long period of time like months uh and even years and so you know this is","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09557845744680851,"compression_ratio":1.900497512437811,"no_speech_prob":0.0005793571472167969,"words":[]},{"start":1801.1200000000001,"end":1804.88,"text":" you and i've talked about this before the difference between kind of like some fast defy type","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09557845744680851,"compression_ratio":1.900497512437811,"no_speech_prob":0.0005793571472167969,"words":[]},{"start":1804.88,"end":1811.0400000000002,"text":" use cases and slow defy use cases where the slow defy use cases are kind of like you know vaulting","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09557845744680851,"compression_ratio":1.900497512437811,"no_speech_prob":0.0005793571472167969,"words":[]},{"start":1811.04,"end":1816.8,"text":" and lending and borrowing and store of value types of use cases where you just want to keep your assets","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09147970085470085,"compression_ratio":1.8484848484848484,"no_speech_prob":0.0002415180206298828,"words":[]},{"start":1816.8,"end":1822.96,"text":" in one place for like months and years um i don't know that hyperliquid is quite ready for those","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09147970085470085,"compression_ratio":1.8484848484848484,"no_speech_prob":0.0002415180206298828,"words":[]},{"start":1822.96,"end":1828.48,"text":" types of use cases if that makes sense like you know how many months or years are you going to","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09147970085470085,"compression_ratio":1.8484848484848484,"no_speech_prob":0.0002415180206298828,"words":[]},{"start":1828.48,"end":1834.8,"text":" store your funds on some perlite on something like hyperliquid whereas for fast defy um it's","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09147970085470085,"compression_ratio":1.8484848484848484,"no_speech_prob":0.0002415180206298828,"words":[]},{"start":1834.8,"end":1840.48,"text":" kind of great and is it that much more risky than a centralized exchange like probably not probably","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09147970085470085,"compression_ratio":1.8484848484848484,"no_speech_prob":0.0002415180206298828,"words":[]},{"start":1840.56,"end":1846.32,"text":" in some ways actually less risky at least you don't have the sandbank been freed FTX style of risk","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.07904411764705882,"compression_ratio":1.7822878228782288,"no_speech_prob":0.0010166168212890625,"words":[]},{"start":1846.32,"end":1851.68,"text":" because it's all open you can see all of the assets on chain and there's not really a way for","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.07904411764705882,"compression_ratio":1.7822878228782288,"no_speech_prob":0.0010166168212890625,"words":[]},{"start":1851.68,"end":1856.8,"text":" hyperliquid to kind of like cook the books uh you take some of the assets and like you actually","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.07904411764705882,"compression_ratio":1.7822878228782288,"no_speech_prob":0.0010166168212890625,"words":[]},{"start":1856.8,"end":1862.96,"text":" use them for a separate side pocket hedge fund the way sandbank been freed was doing so there are","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.07904411764705882,"compression_ratio":1.7822878228782288,"no_speech_prob":0.0010166168212890625,"words":[]},{"start":1862.96,"end":1868.64,"text":" some benefits here it's just not quite like it's not the property rights of a layer one which is","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.07904411764705882,"compression_ratio":1.7822878228782288,"no_speech_prob":0.0010166168212890625,"words":[]},{"start":1868.64,"end":1873.92,"text":" the way i see this i don't know if you agree with this is um i kind of see this as more competitive","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12461703431372549,"compression_ratio":1.7136563876651982,"no_speech_prob":0.0002453327178955078,"words":[]},{"start":1873.92,"end":1882.3200000000002,"text":" to maybe a uh FTX if it was still around or a Binance or a Coinbase or a Kraken or some of these","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12461703431372549,"compression_ratio":1.7136563876651982,"no_speech_prob":0.0002453327178955078,"words":[]},{"start":1882.3200000000002,"end":1887.8400000000001,"text":" centralized uh you know perfect exchanges because it's kind of a hybrid it's not quite a centralized","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12461703431372549,"compression_ratio":1.7136563876651982,"no_speech_prob":0.0002453327178955078,"words":[]},{"start":1887.8400000000001,"end":1894.16,"text":" exchange it's not quite defy it's somewhere in the middle i see it less of a threat to like","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12461703431372549,"compression_ratio":1.7136563876651982,"no_speech_prob":0.0002453327178955078,"words":[]},{"start":1894.24,"end":1899.44,"text":" a Bitcoin for instance or an Ethereum or even at some level a salon although maybe salon","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10183904867256637,"compression_ratio":1.7840909090909092,"no_speech_prob":0.0023593902587890625,"words":[]},{"start":1899.44,"end":1904.3200000000002,"text":" and hyperliquid start to brush up against each other but just because property rights are so key","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10183904867256637,"compression_ratio":1.7840909090909092,"no_speech_prob":0.0023593902587890625,"words":[]},{"start":1904.3200000000002,"end":1910.64,"text":" for that slow defy use case in the store of value use case and you know you don't have those","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10183904867256637,"compression_ratio":1.7840909090909092,"no_speech_prob":0.0023593902587890625,"words":[]},{"start":1910.64,"end":1916.64,"text":" certainties here it's not open source for instance so even as a validator you're running code that","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10183904867256637,"compression_ratio":1.7840909090909092,"no_speech_prob":0.0023593902587890625,"words":[]},{"start":1916.64,"end":1921.68,"text":" you don't have open source access to actually see so it's not quite in the same ballgame with","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10183904867256637,"compression_ratio":1.7840909090909092,"no_speech_prob":0.0023593902587890625,"words":[]},{"start":1921.68,"end":1926.48,"text":" respectic you know comparable other layer ones what do you think about that yeah i think that's right","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.103515625,"compression_ratio":1.8692307692307693,"no_speech_prob":0.00020992755889892578,"words":[]},{"start":1926.48,"end":1930.16,"text":" i think it's somewhere in the middle right now it's kind of got the performance of these more","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.103515625,"compression_ratio":1.8692307692307693,"no_speech_prob":0.00020992755889892578,"words":[]},{"start":1930.16,"end":1935.92,"text":" centralized uh counter parts and it's trying to move in this direction where it can sort of be seen","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.103515625,"compression_ratio":1.8692307692307693,"no_speech_prob":0.00020992755889892578,"words":[]},{"start":1935.92,"end":1940.4,"text":" as something that's more decentralized that gives you those property rights that crypto users","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.103515625,"compression_ratio":1.8692307692307693,"no_speech_prob":0.00020992755889892578,"words":[]},{"start":1940.96,"end":1946.88,"text":" really value and you know to your point on like you know sort of the slow kind of store of value","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.103515625,"compression_ratio":1.8692307692307693,"no_speech_prob":0.00020992755889892578,"words":[]},{"start":1946.88,"end":1952,"text":" defy use cases like what's kind of interesting you know when you kind of zoom out and just look","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10613738738738739,"compression_ratio":2.0126582278481013,"no_speech_prob":0.0031719207763671875,"words":[]},{"start":1952,"end":1957.0400000000002,"text":" at what's starting to play out in terms of where all the assets sit you know where the velocity","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10613738738738739,"compression_ratio":2.0126582278481013,"no_speech_prob":0.0031719207763671875,"words":[]},{"start":1957.0400000000002,"end":1961.8400000000001,"text":" of assets is happening we're seeing like just some really interesting stuff which just like it looks","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10613738738738739,"compression_ratio":2.0126582278481013,"no_speech_prob":0.0031719207763671875,"words":[]},{"start":1961.8400000000001,"end":1968.48,"text":" like most of the stuff wants to be traded in places like hyperliquid in places like salon but","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10613738738738739,"compression_ratio":2.0126582278481013,"no_speech_prob":0.0031719207763671875,"words":[]},{"start":1968.48,"end":1973.8400000000001,"text":" actually most of the assets sit on ethereum and so it's kind of an interesting thing where","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10613738738738739,"compression_ratio":2.0126582278481013,"no_speech_prob":0.0031719207763671875,"words":[]},{"start":1974.3200000000002,"end":1981.2800000000002,"text":" um you you know you have these kind of fast sort of online casino type environments and then you","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14377741228070176,"compression_ratio":1.828358208955224,"no_speech_prob":0.0005974769592285156,"words":[]},{"start":1981.2800000000002,"end":1986.16,"text":" have which is what we're seeing with hyperliquid and maybe more salana and then you have more of the","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14377741228070176,"compression_ratio":1.828358208955224,"no_speech_prob":0.0005974769592285156,"words":[]},{"start":1986.16,"end":1992.16,"text":" wall street type you know use cases that are happening on ethereum and ethereum has 100% uptime","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14377741228070176,"compression_ratio":1.828358208955224,"no_speech_prob":0.0005974769592285156,"words":[]},{"start":1992.16,"end":1998.8000000000002,"text":" it's trusted it's decentralized you have those those property rights and those user guarantees even","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14377741228070176,"compression_ratio":1.828358208955224,"no_speech_prob":0.0005974769592285156,"words":[]},{"start":1998.8000000000002,"end":2002.88,"text":" on l2 where you're going to withdraw assets so it's kind of interesting just sort of zooming out","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14377741228070176,"compression_ratio":1.828358208955224,"no_speech_prob":0.0005974769592285156,"words":[]},{"start":2002.88,"end":2006.88,"text":" thinking about how crypto ecosystem is starting to play out it looks like ethereum is the home","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10716711956521739,"compression_ratio":1.8630573248407643,"no_speech_prob":0.0006771087646484375,"words":[]},{"start":2007.7600000000002,"end":2013.2,"text":" to keep your assets and these other places are sort of like little you know arms where people can","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10716711956521739,"compression_ratio":1.8630573248407643,"no_speech_prob":0.0006771087646484375,"words":[]},{"start":2013.2,"end":2017.0400000000002,"text":" go and do other things I think it's interesting I mean because at some level it is sort of a win","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10716711956521739,"compression_ratio":1.8630573248407643,"no_speech_prob":0.0006771087646484375,"words":[]},{"start":2017.0400000000002,"end":2021.7600000000002,"text":" for the ethereum ecosystem because this is all EVM it's kind of building that network effect and","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10716711956521739,"compression_ratio":1.8630573248407643,"no_speech_prob":0.0006771087646484375,"words":[]},{"start":2021.7600000000002,"end":2026.72,"text":" platform effect uh at the same time there's a little there's an element of like well why didn't they","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10716711956521739,"compression_ratio":1.8630573248407643,"no_speech_prob":0.0006771087646484375,"words":[]},{"start":2026.72,"end":2032.16,"text":" do this as a layer two I mean right if the layer two strategy worked so well how come hyperliquid","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10716711956521739,"compression_ratio":1.8630573248407643,"no_speech_prob":0.0006771087646484375,"words":[]},{"start":2032.16,"end":2037.6000000000001,"text":" actually decided not to deploy this as a layer two and I think when I've listened to conversations","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10398230088495575,"compression_ratio":1.7517985611510791,"no_speech_prob":0.0006260871887207031,"words":[]},{"start":2037.6000000000001,"end":2042.48,"text":" with Jeff and some of the other co-founders they say the reason is they couldn't get the performance","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10398230088495575,"compression_ratio":1.7517985611510791,"no_speech_prob":0.0006260871887207031,"words":[]},{"start":2042.48,"end":2047.52,"text":" in all of the customized ability that allow them to produce a product essentially this good","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10398230088495575,"compression_ratio":1.7517985611510791,"no_speech_prob":0.0006260871887207031,"words":[]},{"start":2047.52,"end":2052.88,"text":" for purpose trading so maybe at some point in the future they become a layer two maybe not maybe","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10398230088495575,"compression_ratio":1.7517985611510791,"no_speech_prob":0.0006260871887207031,"words":[]},{"start":2052.88,"end":2058.48,"text":" the L1 thing is is going for them but yeah I um yeah I agree there's there's kind of like the slow","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10398230088495575,"compression_ratio":1.7517985611510791,"no_speech_prob":0.0006260871887207031,"words":[]},{"start":2058.48,"end":2063.2,"text":" defy type store value use cases then it does seem like there's a whole bunch of other things","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1507896505376344,"compression_ratio":1.620253164556962,"no_speech_prob":0.00263214111328125,"words":[]},{"start":2063.2,"end":2069.2,"text":" that are happening on centralized exchanges and uh layer two layer one order books and that kind of","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1507896505376344,"compression_ratio":1.620253164556962,"no_speech_prob":0.00263214111328125,"words":[]},{"start":2069.2,"end":2076.96,"text":" thing um another element of this that I was wondering which is is kind of like the uh the AML KYC","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1507896505376344,"compression_ratio":1.620253164556962,"no_speech_prob":0.00263214111328125,"words":[]},{"start":2076.96,"end":2083.28,"text":" Bank secrecy act type of risk um and it's just like do you remember Mike that uh Arthur Hayes","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1507896505376344,"compression_ratio":1.620253164556962,"no_speech_prob":0.00263214111328125,"words":[]},{"start":2084.2400000000002,"end":2090.5600000000004,"text":" he spent six months on health on house arrest for not crossing uh all of the T's and dotting","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13191731770833334,"compression_ratio":1.6266094420600858,"no_speech_prob":0.00844573974609375,"words":[]},{"start":2090.5600000000004,"end":2097.1200000000003,"text":" his eyes with respect to AML KYC and the US government came after him CZ spent a year in jail","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13191731770833334,"compression_ratio":1.6266094420600858,"no_speech_prob":0.00844573974609375,"words":[]},{"start":2097.1200000000003,"end":2102.48,"text":" over this type of thing okay and hyperliquid is not doing that to my knowledge today they're doing","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13191731770833334,"compression_ratio":1.6266094420600858,"no_speech_prob":0.00844573974609375,"words":[]},{"start":2102.48,"end":2107.92,"text":" that for the validators but they're not doing that for users and it seems like because of the","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13191731770833334,"compression_ratio":1.6266094420600858,"no_speech_prob":0.00844573974609375,"words":[]},{"start":2107.92,"end":2113.6800000000003,"text":" Trump administration things have opened up I don't think that there's going to be prosecution","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.06395656779661017,"compression_ratio":1.8044280442804428,"no_speech_prob":0.0011692047119140625,"words":[]},{"start":2113.6800000000003,"end":2119.76,"text":" during the Trump regime of something like hyperliquid but that is sort of a market risk that lingers","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.06395656779661017,"compression_ratio":1.8044280442804428,"no_speech_prob":0.0011692047119140625,"words":[]},{"start":2119.76,"end":2125.52,"text":" at least in my mind out there and I guess hyperliquid strategy is just like use the time we have to","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.06395656779661017,"compression_ratio":1.8044280442804428,"no_speech_prob":0.0011692047119140625,"words":[]},{"start":2125.52,"end":2130.48,"text":" become as big as possible kick that can down the road and worry about it later once we're big it's","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.06395656779661017,"compression_ratio":1.8044280442804428,"no_speech_prob":0.0011692047119140625,"words":[]},{"start":2130.48,"end":2134.96,"text":" almost like the tether strategy here it's kind of what Paulo and tether did right which is just","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.06395656779661017,"compression_ratio":1.8044280442804428,"no_speech_prob":0.0011692047119140625,"words":[]},{"start":2134.96,"end":2139.44,"text":" they were in this like weird gray zone for a while and now look at them they have the genius act","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10436698717948718,"compression_ratio":1.7204301075268817,"no_speech_prob":0.0018968582153320312,"words":[]},{"start":2139.44,"end":2145.76,"text":" and he's at the the signing of of the genius bill himself and tether is now completely legitimized","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10436698717948718,"compression_ratio":1.7204301075268817,"no_speech_prob":0.0018968582153320312,"words":[]},{"start":2145.76,"end":2150.56,"text":" and that could happen with hyperliquid but they have to move fast during this time of uh open","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10436698717948718,"compression_ratio":1.7204301075268817,"no_speech_prob":0.0018968582153320312,"words":[]},{"start":2150.56,"end":2156.48,"text":" market because there's some great area I feel like with the AML KYC question yeah no that's uh","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10436698717948718,"compression_ratio":1.7204301075268817,"no_speech_prob":0.0018968582153320312,"words":[]},{"start":2156.48,"end":2162.08,"text":" you know interesting observation uh as well and yeah I think you know they're they're doing KYC","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10436698717948718,"compression_ratio":1.7204301075268817,"no_speech_prob":0.0018968582153320312,"words":[]},{"start":2162.16,"end":2168.3199999999997,"text":" for the for the validators they have you know geofanced the you know the perps decks and just","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.20054768041237114,"compression_ratio":1.7333333333333334,"no_speech_prob":0.00757598876953125,"words":[]},{"start":2168.3199999999997,"end":2175.44,"text":" accessing that um so you need a VPN to to get in there um that did not say that's next or finance","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.20054768041237114,"compression_ratio":1.7333333333333334,"no_speech_prob":0.00757598876953125,"words":[]},{"start":2175.44,"end":2181.36,"text":" oh really okay yeah okay interesting um so yeah there's definitely some some risk there and I think","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.20054768041237114,"compression_ratio":1.7333333333333334,"no_speech_prob":0.00757598876953125,"words":[]},{"start":2181.36,"end":2186.7999999999997,"text":" I think you're right that's probably is the strategy of just sort of let's get this thing to scale","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.20054768041237114,"compression_ratio":1.7333333333333334,"no_speech_prob":0.00757598876953125,"words":[]},{"start":2186.8,"end":2192.96,"text":" and be sort of like big too big to fail or too big to shut down um and and maybe that's that's","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.07217603211009174,"compression_ratio":1.8560311284046693,"no_speech_prob":0.0008559226989746094,"words":[]},{"start":2192.96,"end":2197.44,"text":" the strategy but certainly another um you know element of risk that people should consider here","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.07217603211009174,"compression_ratio":1.8560311284046693,"no_speech_prob":0.0008559226989746094,"words":[]},{"start":2198.32,"end":2203.84,"text":" let's talk about um how big this is right now so open interest this is a metric that's important","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.07217603211009174,"compression_ratio":1.8560311284046693,"no_speech_prob":0.0008559226989746094,"words":[]},{"start":2203.84,"end":2207.84,"text":" for these types of exchanges what what are you seeing on some of these fundamentals metrics","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.07217603211009174,"compression_ratio":1.8560311284046693,"no_speech_prob":0.0008559226989746094,"words":[]},{"start":2207.84,"end":2213.1200000000003,"text":" like open interest yeah you know just trying to you know get a sense for where they sit and where","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.07217603211009174,"compression_ratio":1.8560311284046693,"no_speech_prob":0.0008559226989746094,"words":[]},{"start":2213.12,"end":2219.2,"text":" they compare to you know some of these other more centralized counterparts finance by bit okay","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.16516544117647058,"compression_ratio":1.682608695652174,"no_speech_prob":0.00015354156494140625,"words":[]},{"start":2219.2,"end":2224.56,"text":" acts you know CME in terms of open interest like they they've got about I think there's like about","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.16516544117647058,"compression_ratio":1.682608695652174,"no_speech_prob":0.00015354156494140625,"words":[]},{"start":2224.56,"end":2232.4,"text":" 13 billion or so currently and that represents roughly 10% of all these you know the combined you","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.16516544117647058,"compression_ratio":1.682608695652174,"no_speech_prob":0.00015354156494140625,"words":[]},{"start":2232.4,"end":2238.56,"text":" know centralized players including CME um so that's that's pretty interesting in their you know","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.16516544117647058,"compression_ratio":1.682608695652174,"no_speech_prob":0.00015354156494140625,"words":[]},{"start":2238.7999999999997,"end":2243.92,"text":" I think the people think of them as sort of their competition is the decentralized you know","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14517513736263737,"compression_ratio":1.7612612612612613,"no_speech_prob":0.00046539306640625,"words":[]},{"start":2243.92,"end":2252.4,"text":" counterparts which is more of the Jupiter perps dy dx drift gmx um they are you know you know far","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14517513736263737,"compression_ratio":1.7612612612612613,"no_speech_prob":0.00046539306640625,"words":[]},{"start":2252.4,"end":2258.48,"text":" in a way much much higher from from those protocols I think doing about 10x the volume of them combined","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14517513736263737,"compression_ratio":1.7612612612612613,"no_speech_prob":0.00046539306640625,"words":[]},{"start":2259.04,"end":2264.16,"text":" and so when you think about their their share of the market they're already to me they've already","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14517513736263737,"compression_ratio":1.7612612612612613,"no_speech_prob":0.00046539306640625,"words":[]},{"start":2264.16,"end":2270.7999999999997,"text":" won the sort of decentralized perps game uh maybe too early to test to say that but they have","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.17892699115044247,"compression_ratio":1.7749077490774907,"no_speech_prob":0.002471923828125,"words":[]},{"start":2270.7999999999997,"end":2276.08,"text":" such a big lead in so much momentum right now it feels like it's moving in that direction and the","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.17892699115044247,"compression_ratio":1.7749077490774907,"no_speech_prob":0.002471923828125,"words":[]},{"start":2276.08,"end":2281.7599999999998,"text":" competition is you know by bynans and bybit and these more you know centralized players there is","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.17892699115044247,"compression_ratio":1.7749077490774907,"no_speech_prob":0.002471923828125,"words":[]},{"start":2281.7599999999998,"end":2286.3199999999997,"text":" you know Robinhood is is planning to launch this in the US soon I believe Coinbase just launched","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.17892699115044247,"compression_ratio":1.7749077490774907,"no_speech_prob":0.002471923828125,"words":[]},{"start":2286.3199999999997,"end":2291.04,"text":" launch perps as well so there's there's more competition coming as well okay and you you talked","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.17892699115044247,"compression_ratio":1.7749077490774907,"no_speech_prob":0.002471923828125,"words":[]},{"start":2291.04,"end":2296.64,"text":" about the uh the active users and the revenue per user just uh extremely impressive here yeah","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11873525943396226,"compression_ratio":1.864864864864865,"no_speech_prob":0.0026302337646484375,"words":[]},{"start":2297.68,"end":2302.96,"text":" very highly highly active highly engaged users I think is sort of the I think what what the take","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11873525943396226,"compression_ratio":1.864864864864865,"no_speech_prob":0.0026302337646484375,"words":[]},{"start":2302.96,"end":2308.48,"text":" away with this is just the stickiness of the product and it feels to be like if you're generating","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11873525943396226,"compression_ratio":1.864864864864865,"no_speech_prob":0.0026302337646484375,"words":[]},{"start":2308.48,"end":2313.12,"text":" that much value of your users like they're not trading anywhere else they're just trading they're","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11873525943396226,"compression_ratio":1.864864864864865,"no_speech_prob":0.0026302337646484375,"words":[]},{"start":2313.12,"end":2319.44,"text":" trading on hyper liquid okay so volume competitive with the big boys and seeing that from a open","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11873525943396226,"compression_ratio":1.864864864864865,"no_speech_prob":0.0026302337646484375,"words":[]},{"start":2319.44,"end":2324.16,"text":" interest perspective from just like the raw volume perspective now let's talk about one of the","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.07339891975308642,"compression_ratio":1.6608695652173913,"no_speech_prob":0.0011157989501953125,"words":[]},{"start":2324.16,"end":2329.36,"text":" most exciting elements of this which is the crypto native token that's associated with this and","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.07339891975308642,"compression_ratio":1.6608695652173913,"no_speech_prob":0.0011157989501953125,"words":[]},{"start":2330.4,"end":2338.7200000000003,"text":" I feel like as as token investors we are thirsty for good token economics particularly on the","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.07339891975308642,"compression_ratio":1.6608695652173913,"no_speech_prob":0.0011157989501953125,"words":[]},{"start":2338.7200000000003,"end":2345.36,"text":" revenue side of things and we talked about earlier how much revenue 3.5 million per day was being","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.07339891975308642,"compression_ratio":1.6608695652173913,"no_speech_prob":0.0011157989501953125,"words":[]},{"start":2345.36,"end":2352.1600000000003,"text":" generated by hyper liquid the story here I think Mike is that this value is actually accruing","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.0798611111111111,"compression_ratio":1.8721804511278195,"no_speech_prob":0.0015974044799804688,"words":[]},{"start":2352.1600000000003,"end":2357.28,"text":" to token holders we already talked about the fair launch and the distribution of this token can you","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.0798611111111111,"compression_ratio":1.8721804511278195,"no_speech_prob":0.0015974044799804688,"words":[]},{"start":2357.28,"end":2363.1200000000003,"text":" talk a little bit about the the buyback program that they have the burn program that they have and how","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.0798611111111111,"compression_ratio":1.8721804511278195,"no_speech_prob":0.0015974044799804688,"words":[]},{"start":2363.1200000000003,"end":2369.52,"text":" token holders are actually receiving this revenue in some form of value yeah and I think this this","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.0798611111111111,"compression_ratio":1.8721804511278195,"no_speech_prob":0.0015974044799804688,"words":[]},{"start":2369.52,"end":2373.76,"text":" is kind of coming back to what we were mentioning at the beginning and just how they're building trust","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.0798611111111111,"compression_ratio":1.8721804511278195,"no_speech_prob":0.0015974044799804688,"words":[]},{"start":2373.84,"end":2379.36,"text":" with not only the user base but now also with investors and people that are looking at maybe you","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11206317204301075,"compression_ratio":1.7802690582959642,"no_speech_prob":0.004131317138671875,"words":[]},{"start":2379.36,"end":2384.48,"text":" know buying the the hype token what's what's pretty interesting is not only are they you know printing","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11206317204301075,"compression_ratio":1.7802690582959642,"no_speech_prob":0.004131317138671875,"words":[]},{"start":2384.48,"end":2391.92,"text":" that cash they're using about 95% of it to go out and buy the hype token on the open market those","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11206317204301075,"compression_ratio":1.7802690582959642,"no_speech_prob":0.004131317138671875,"words":[]},{"start":2391.92,"end":2398.5600000000004,"text":" are not burned token so it's not that it's not being you know completely removed from the supply it","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11206317204301075,"compression_ratio":1.7802690582959642,"no_speech_prob":0.004131317138671875,"words":[]},{"start":2398.56,"end":2403.44,"text":" is being held by them in their their treasury so we don't know exactly you know what the plan is","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13765285326086957,"compression_ratio":1.7808219178082192,"no_speech_prob":0.0017538070678710938,"words":[]},{"start":2403.44,"end":2409.2,"text":" for that but for now they're those those are tokens that are coming off the market and you know","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13765285326086957,"compression_ratio":1.7808219178082192,"no_speech_prob":0.0017538070678710938,"words":[]},{"start":2409.2,"end":2417.04,"text":" they did about 92 million dollars of fees in July and they burnt they they bought back 90 million","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13765285326086957,"compression_ratio":1.7808219178082192,"no_speech_prob":0.0017538070678710938,"words":[]},{"start":2417.04,"end":2423.52,"text":" of hype tokens so they are you know just out there there that's a constant bid in the market so not","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13765285326086957,"compression_ratio":1.7808219178082192,"no_speech_prob":0.0017538070678710938,"words":[]},{"start":2423.52,"end":2429.44,"text":" only do they not have the VCs you know dumping potentially when when unlocks come in their","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12289325842696629,"compression_ratio":1.6964285714285714,"no_speech_prob":0.0013246536254882812,"words":[]},{"start":2429.44,"end":2435.44,"text":" besting ends they're actually out there putting a bid in a floor you know on on the token as well","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12289325842696629,"compression_ratio":1.6964285714285714,"no_speech_prob":0.0013246536254882812,"words":[]},{"start":2435.44,"end":2440.96,"text":" which is very interesting so this is a way that some of that revenue actually translates back at","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12289325842696629,"compression_ratio":1.6964285714285714,"no_speech_prob":0.0013246536254882812,"words":[]},{"start":2440.96,"end":2447.52,"text":" least on paper to to token holders and reduce supply so I guess this is very similar to in the","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12289325842696629,"compression_ratio":1.6964285714285714,"no_speech_prob":0.0013246536254882812,"words":[]},{"start":2447.52,"end":2453.84,"text":" equities world a share buyback some sort which is a very common you know investor friendly way","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13273879716981132,"compression_ratio":1.833976833976834,"no_speech_prob":0.0009107589721679688,"words":[]},{"start":2453.84,"end":2460.24,"text":" to actually distribute the gains that come from generally profits for equities types of companies","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13273879716981132,"compression_ratio":1.833976833976834,"no_speech_prob":0.0009107589721679688,"words":[]},{"start":2460.24,"end":2466.08,"text":" and this is not profits this is actually top line revenue right you're you're saying is a 90%","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13273879716981132,"compression_ratio":1.833976833976834,"no_speech_prob":0.0009107589721679688,"words":[]},{"start":2466.08,"end":2471.6,"text":" of top line revenue right now okay and that's going back to it essentially token buybacks right","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13273879716981132,"compression_ratio":1.833976833976834,"no_speech_prob":0.0009107589721679688,"words":[]},{"start":2471.6,"end":2476.16,"text":" going back to the treasury so the company balance sheet has it and I guess as a token holder","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13273879716981132,"compression_ratio":1.833976833976834,"no_speech_prob":0.0009107589721679688,"words":[]},{"start":2476.16,"end":2481.6,"text":" there's some sort of implication that you have some rights to that balance sheet it's not a legal","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12293956043956043,"compression_ratio":1.8333333333333333,"no_speech_prob":0.00164794921875,"words":[]},{"start":2482.3999999999996,"end":2486.72,"text":" implication in the way that that equities would be but I think token holders are generally assuming","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12293956043956043,"compression_ratio":1.8333333333333333,"no_speech_prob":0.00164794921875,"words":[]},{"start":2486.72,"end":2494.3999999999996,"text":" that they have rights some sort of distribution rights to the the treasury of of hyper liquid and so","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12293956043956043,"compression_ratio":1.8333333333333333,"no_speech_prob":0.00164794921875,"words":[]},{"start":2494.3999999999996,"end":2499.8399999999997,"text":" that's how they're accruing this value yeah I think if you're a high holder like the way to think","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12293956043956043,"compression_ratio":1.8333333333333333,"no_speech_prob":0.00164794921875,"words":[]},{"start":2499.84,"end":2506.56,"text":" about that is you know your your share of sort of the outstanding supply a circling supply of hype","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12195121951219512,"compression_ratio":1.8221153846153846,"no_speech_prob":0.0020503997802734375,"words":[]},{"start":2507.1200000000003,"end":2514,"text":" is increasing right every time they go out and buy tokens on the open market you know","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12195121951219512,"compression_ratio":1.8221153846153846,"no_speech_prob":0.0020503997802734375,"words":[]},{"start":2514.6400000000003,"end":2518.88,"text":" again they're not burning those tokens but this is very similar to how you would see like share","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12195121951219512,"compression_ratio":1.8221153846153846,"no_speech_prob":0.0020503997802734375,"words":[]},{"start":2518.88,"end":2525.52,"text":" buybacks removing removing from removing shares from the circulating supply and then anybody who's","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12195121951219512,"compression_ratio":1.8221153846153846,"no_speech_prob":0.0020503997802734375,"words":[]},{"start":2525.52,"end":2531.7599999999998,"text":" who holds those shares their their ownership is actually increasing relative so I think that's","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09923735119047619,"compression_ratio":1.7074235807860263,"no_speech_prob":0.0002065896987915039,"words":[]},{"start":2531.7599999999998,"end":2537.04,"text":" the takeaway you don't have the legal rights you have as a shareholder but your you know relative","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09923735119047619,"compression_ratio":1.7074235807860263,"no_speech_prob":0.0002065896987915039,"words":[]},{"start":2537.04,"end":2542.56,"text":" you know percentage ownership of the protocol is increasing when they're removing supply from the","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09923735119047619,"compression_ratio":1.7074235807860263,"no_speech_prob":0.0002065896987915039,"words":[]},{"start":2542.56,"end":2548,"text":" market like that which I guess we should say is is better than what 99% of all tokens that exist out","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09923735119047619,"compression_ratio":1.7074235807860263,"no_speech_prob":0.0002065896987915039,"words":[]},{"start":2548,"end":2554.56,"text":" there yes right just like revenue distribution here right it's yeah they have a fee switch that's","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14655172413793102,"compression_ratio":1.9282868525896415,"no_speech_prob":0.00505828857421875,"words":[]},{"start":2554.56,"end":2561.2,"text":" on they've a fee switch that's on and you know we've seen just you know a lot of pushback I think just","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14655172413793102,"compression_ratio":1.9282868525896415,"no_speech_prob":0.00505828857421875,"words":[]},{"start":2561.2,"end":2565.28,"text":" kind of back to the VCs we saw like meme coins coming out with lots of narratives around you know","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14655172413793102,"compression_ratio":1.9282868525896415,"no_speech_prob":0.00505828857421875,"words":[]},{"start":2565.28,"end":2569.84,"text":" no VCs and all this you know I think they're just combining that now with this you know this","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14655172413793102,"compression_ratio":1.9282868525896415,"no_speech_prob":0.00505828857421875,"words":[]},{"start":2569.84,"end":2574.24,"text":" really nice mechanism where there's like this automatic you know buyback of these tokens and","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14655172413793102,"compression_ratio":1.9282868525896415,"no_speech_prob":0.00505828857421875,"words":[]},{"start":2575.1200000000003,"end":2581.84,"text":" from from like a you know investor underwriting perspective like it introduces new ways to try","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.0819873595505618,"compression_ratio":1.7207207207207207,"no_speech_prob":0.0006070137023925781,"words":[]},{"start":2581.84,"end":2587.6000000000004,"text":" to understand you know what's going on and how to value the protocol like if you just sort of took","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.0819873595505618,"compression_ratio":1.7207207207207207,"no_speech_prob":0.0006070137023925781,"words":[]},{"start":2587.6000000000004,"end":2594.88,"text":" the annualized you know tokens that they bought back over the last year it comes out to like a 4.3","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.0819873595505618,"compression_ratio":1.7207207207207207,"no_speech_prob":0.0006070137023925781,"words":[]},{"start":2594.88,"end":2600.8,"text":" percent you know annualized buyback yield I know people are throwing out you know lots of","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.0819873595505618,"compression_ratio":1.7207207207207207,"no_speech_prob":0.0006070137023925781,"words":[]},{"start":2600.8,"end":2604.96,"text":" different terminologies around the yield yeah that's not actual yield that's being paid to you but","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1175915948275862,"compression_ratio":1.7178571428571427,"no_speech_prob":0.002590179443359375,"words":[]},{"start":2604.96,"end":2610.5600000000004,"text":" it's sort of like accruing into your ownership of the protocol in some way are there any like","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1175915948275862,"compression_ratio":1.7178571428571427,"no_speech_prob":0.002590179443359375,"words":[]},{"start":2610.5600000000004,"end":2615.1200000000003,"text":" guarantees as to how much they're going to buy back so is there any way to kind of model out","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1175915948275862,"compression_ratio":1.7178571428571427,"no_speech_prob":0.002590179443359375,"words":[]},{"start":2615.1200000000003,"end":2620.32,"text":" for guidance or do you just see after the fact I remember there was a time with the Binance chain","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1175915948275862,"compression_ratio":1.7178571428571427,"no_speech_prob":0.002590179443359375,"words":[]},{"start":2620.32,"end":2627.84,"text":" as it was called at the time 2020 2021 was like something like 25% of all Binance profits will be","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1175915948275862,"compression_ratio":1.7178571428571427,"no_speech_prob":0.002590179443359375,"words":[]},{"start":2627.84,"end":2634,"text":" would be used to buy back the the BNB token right so but that was I'm not sure actually I haven't","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10970603813559322,"compression_ratio":1.7617328519855595,"no_speech_prob":0.00130462646484375,"words":[]},{"start":2634,"end":2639.36,"text":" you know been back in the BNB chain to see if that that program is still in effect but it was","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10970603813559322,"compression_ratio":1.7617328519855595,"no_speech_prob":0.00130462646484375,"words":[]},{"start":2639.36,"end":2644.08,"text":" basically management guidance and arbitrarily coming up with a number and you know they can the","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10970603813559322,"compression_ratio":1.7617328519855595,"no_speech_prob":0.00130462646484375,"words":[]},{"start":2644.08,"end":2648.6400000000003,"text":" subject to revision in the futures at the same with with hyper liquid like you never know how much","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10970603813559322,"compression_ratio":1.7617328519855595,"no_speech_prob":0.00130462646484375,"words":[]},{"start":2648.6400000000003,"end":2653.92,"text":" they're going to buy back it's not an algorithmic thing it's kind of management discretion I think so","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10970603813559322,"compression_ratio":1.7617328519855595,"no_speech_prob":0.00130462646484375,"words":[]},{"start":2653.92,"end":2659.12,"text":" we weren't able to find any like documentation that they were where they were explicitly putting","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08148364485981309,"compression_ratio":1.9475806451612903,"no_speech_prob":0.0013885498046875,"words":[]},{"start":2659.12,"end":2663.04,"text":" that out there and it probably doesn't make sense for them to do that at this stage I think","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08148364485981309,"compression_ratio":1.9475806451612903,"no_speech_prob":0.0013885498046875,"words":[]},{"start":2663.04,"end":2668.64,"text":" there may come a time where they decide that they want to actually take some of those those fees","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08148364485981309,"compression_ratio":1.9475806451612903,"no_speech_prob":0.0013885498046875,"words":[]},{"start":2668.64,"end":2674.56,"text":" and invest in you know maybe there's maybe they want to hire more staff or just invest into their","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08148364485981309,"compression_ratio":1.9475806451612903,"no_speech_prob":0.0013885498046875,"words":[]},{"start":2674.56,"end":2680.8,"text":" operations and they may need that those funds at some point most startups you know are not you know","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08148364485981309,"compression_ratio":1.9475806451612903,"no_speech_prob":0.0013885498046875,"words":[]},{"start":2680.88,"end":2686.96,"text":" buying back their tokens less than a year after launching most of that are using any fees that they","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.07145489386792453,"compression_ratio":1.8587786259541985,"no_speech_prob":0.00164794921875,"words":[]},{"start":2686.96,"end":2691.28,"text":" can get from revenue and trying to drive that back into the business so that they can grow so this","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.07145489386792453,"compression_ratio":1.8587786259541985,"no_speech_prob":0.00164794921875,"words":[]},{"start":2691.28,"end":2697.36,"text":" is like an incredibly unique situation where they have the resources to grow this thing and they","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.07145489386792453,"compression_ratio":1.8587786259541985,"no_speech_prob":0.00164794921875,"words":[]},{"start":2697.36,"end":2703.04,"text":" don't need to take their revenues to and reinvest into the protocol right now so one thing that I","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.07145489386792453,"compression_ratio":1.8587786259541985,"no_speech_prob":0.00164794921875,"words":[]},{"start":2703.04,"end":2708.32,"text":" find is interesting when we're looking at these these assets and from a supply perspective is","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.07145489386792453,"compression_ratio":1.8587786259541985,"no_speech_prob":0.00164794921875,"words":[]},{"start":2708.32,"end":2714.0800000000004,"text":" the two sort of metrics we typically use are like fully diluted valuation which is all possible","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15333946078431374,"compression_ratio":1.8431372549019607,"no_speech_prob":0.0012445449829101562,"words":[]},{"start":2714.88,"end":2720.56,"text":" tokens that are you know like mintable multiplied by the price right so you get your fully","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15333946078431374,"compression_ratio":1.8431372549019607,"no_speech_prob":0.0012445449829101562,"words":[]},{"start":2720.56,"end":2725.52,"text":" diluted valuation that's this is really important when you're looking at other layer ones like","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15333946078431374,"compression_ratio":1.8431372549019607,"no_speech_prob":0.0012445449829101562,"words":[]},{"start":2725.52,"end":2729.92,"text":" something like Ethereum or slana or or or Bitcoin it's like yeah important for that and then","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15333946078431374,"compression_ratio":1.8431372549019607,"no_speech_prob":0.0012445449829101562,"words":[]},{"start":2729.92,"end":2735.76,"text":" there's market cap which is basically the tokens that are available not not locked up available","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.15333946078431374,"compression_ratio":1.8431372549019607,"no_speech_prob":0.0012445449829101562,"words":[]},{"start":2735.76,"end":2740.4,"text":" as flow multiplied by the price right and that gives you a sense of y'all okay how much is liquid","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13576388888888888,"compression_ratio":1.6265560165975104,"no_speech_prob":0.002323150634765625,"words":[]},{"start":2740.4,"end":2747.28,"text":" at this point in time but but these two numbers aren't I feel like a precise enough to actually","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13576388888888888,"compression_ratio":1.6265560165975104,"no_speech_prob":0.002323150634765625,"words":[]},{"start":2747.28,"end":2753.2000000000003,"text":" map on to what's going on in some of these tokens and maybe in particular something like hyper liquid","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13576388888888888,"compression_ratio":1.6265560165975104,"no_speech_prob":0.002323150634765625,"words":[]},{"start":2754.0800000000004,"end":2760.1600000000003,"text":" and I was reading an Artemis post that you just basically outlines another metric that we should","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13576388888888888,"compression_ratio":1.6265560165975104,"no_speech_prob":0.002323150634765625,"words":[]},{"start":2760.16,"end":2767.52,"text":" consider using that's using the traditional equities world that's not you know the total","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10858386075949367,"compression_ratio":1.8076923076923077,"no_speech_prob":0.0009107589721679688,"words":[]},{"start":2768.16,"end":2773.2,"text":" fully diluted valuation and the market cap but it's basically outstanding shares we're outstanding","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10858386075949367,"compression_ratio":1.8076923076923077,"no_speech_prob":0.0009107589721679688,"words":[]},{"start":2773.2,"end":2779.92,"text":" tokens you might call it outstanding supply in the crypto world which excludes everything that","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10858386075949367,"compression_ratio":1.8076923076923077,"no_speech_prob":0.0009107589721679688,"words":[]},{"start":2779.92,"end":2785.8399999999997,"text":" would be owned by the hype foundation right so all the buyback tokens that they have excludes","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10858386075949367,"compression_ratio":1.8076923076923077,"no_speech_prob":0.0009107589721679688,"words":[]},{"start":2786.48,"end":2792.08,"text":" but it does include the invested team balances and if you look at the hype supply you know and","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12345566860465117,"compression_ratio":1.7813953488372094,"no_speech_prob":0.0002378225326538086,"words":[]},{"start":2792.08,"end":2801.04,"text":" you subtract all of the tokens that basically hype foundation owns you get a lower supply versus","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12345566860465117,"compression_ratio":1.7813953488372094,"no_speech_prob":0.0002378225326538086,"words":[]},{"start":2801.04,"end":2808.2400000000002,"text":" you know the you know a fully diluted valuation and yeah so what do you think about using that","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12345566860465117,"compression_ratio":1.7813953488372094,"no_speech_prob":0.0002378225326538086,"words":[]},{"start":2808.2400000000002,"end":2815.28,"text":" metric to or that that number for supply rather than some of the ones we we typically use I like","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.12345566860465117,"compression_ratio":1.7813953488372094,"no_speech_prob":0.0002378225326538086,"words":[]},{"start":2815.28,"end":2820.48,"text":" this framework that Artemis put out I think it makes sense and and it kind of like just raises you","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08919270833333333,"compression_ratio":1.8522727272727273,"no_speech_prob":0.00044417381286621094,"words":[]},{"start":2820.48,"end":2825.76,"text":" know the question of I think every asset that you're analyzing in crypto all they all have different","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08919270833333333,"compression_ratio":1.8522727272727273,"no_speech_prob":0.00044417381286621094,"words":[]},{"start":2825.76,"end":2830.6400000000003,"text":" token economic schemes they have different token allocations some do buybacks some don't so there","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08919270833333333,"compression_ratio":1.8522727272727273,"no_speech_prob":0.00044417381286621094,"words":[]},{"start":2830.6400000000003,"end":2836.32,"text":" I think this is like every every asset needs to be analyzed sort of on its own but when you're","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08919270833333333,"compression_ratio":1.8522727272727273,"no_speech_prob":0.00044417381286621094,"words":[]},{"start":2836.32,"end":2841.92,"text":" looking at something like hype I think this is particularly useful because of these buybacks you","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08919270833333333,"compression_ratio":1.8522727272727273,"no_speech_prob":0.00044417381286621094,"words":[]},{"start":2842.08,"end":2848.4,"text":" need to factor that in somehow so so just taking the the amount of you know circulating supply","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13860452586206898,"compression_ratio":1.7962962962962963,"no_speech_prob":0.0010004043579101562,"words":[]},{"start":2848.4,"end":2852.8,"text":" that's in the market right now we know that they are you know out in the market buying that back so","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13860452586206898,"compression_ratio":1.7962962962962963,"no_speech_prob":0.0010004043579101562,"words":[]},{"start":2852.8,"end":2858.7200000000003,"text":" it makes sense to to pull that out and then of course you know the team is going to be you know","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13860452586206898,"compression_ratio":1.7962962962962963,"no_speech_prob":0.0010004043579101562,"words":[]},{"start":2858.7200000000003,"end":2863.28,"text":" their besting schedules are coming up I believe those unlocks start in November and so you know","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13860452586206898,"compression_ratio":1.7962962962962963,"no_speech_prob":0.0010004043579101562,"words":[]},{"start":2863.28,"end":2868.08,"text":" that should be factored it I think on the other side of it as well so. Ethereum's layer 2 universe","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13860452586206898,"compression_ratio":1.7962962962962963,"no_speech_prob":0.0010004043579101562,"words":[]},{"start":2868.08,"end":2872.08,"text":" is exploding with choices but if you're looking for the best place to park and move your tokens","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13895089285714285,"compression_ratio":1.7925696594427245,"no_speech_prob":0.0263519287109375,"words":[]},{"start":2872.08,"end":2877.44,"text":" make your next stop unichain first liquidity unichain hosts the most liquid uniswap v4 deployment","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13895089285714285,"compression_ratio":1.7925696594427245,"no_speech_prob":0.0263519287109375,"words":[]},{"start":2877.44,"end":2882.56,"text":" on any layer 2 giving you deeper pools for flagship pairs like eth usdc more liquidity means","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13895089285714285,"compression_ratio":1.7925696594427245,"no_speech_prob":0.0263519287109375,"words":[]},{"start":2882.56,"end":2887.44,"text":" better prices less slippage and smoother swaps exactly what traders crave the numbers back it up","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13895089285714285,"compression_ratio":1.7925696594427245,"no_speech_prob":0.0263519287109375,"words":[]},{"start":2887.44,"end":2893.04,"text":" unichain leads all layer 2s in total value locked for uniswap v4 and it's not just a deep it's fast","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13895089285714285,"compression_ratio":1.7925696594427245,"no_speech_prob":0.0263519287109375,"words":[]},{"start":2893.04,"end":2897.12,"text":" and fully transparent purpose built to be the home base for defy and cross chain liquidity when","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13895089285714285,"compression_ratio":1.7925696594427245,"no_speech_prob":0.0263519287109375,"words":[]},{"start":2897.12,"end":2902.56,"text":" it comes to cost unichain is a no-brainer transaction fees come in about 95% cheaper than Ethereum","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.16530987394957983,"compression_ratio":1.6993006993006994,"no_speech_prob":0.00016868114471435547,"words":[]},{"start":2902.56,"end":2907.3599999999997,"text":" maintenance slashing the price of creating or accessing liquidity want to stay in the loop on unichain","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.16530987394957983,"compression_ratio":1.6993006993006994,"no_speech_prob":0.00016868114471435547,"words":[]},{"start":2907.3599999999997,"end":2912.88,"text":" visit unichain.org or follow at unichain on x for all the updates dgen started as a tightnic","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.16530987394957983,"compression_ratio":1.6993006993006994,"no_speech_prob":0.00016868114471435547,"words":[]},{"start":2912.88,"end":2917.8399999999997,"text":" community on farkcaster and organically grew into one of the top meme coins on base what began as","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.16530987394957983,"compression_ratio":1.6993006993006994,"no_speech_prob":0.00016868114471435547,"words":[]},{"start":2917.8399999999997,"end":2922.88,"text":" a simple idea tip anyone who joins the fun sparked an economy that turned into a movement the","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.16530987394957983,"compression_ratio":1.6993006993006994,"no_speech_prob":0.00016868114471435547,"words":[]},{"start":2922.88,"end":2927.36,"text":" community runs the show from the logo and the lower to funding and building ambitious ideas","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10294117647058823,"compression_ratio":1.8106060606060606,"no_speech_prob":0.0003981590270996094,"words":[]},{"start":2927.36,"end":2932.32,"text":" together over one million dgen now power each other with their generosity creativity and ability","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10294117647058823,"compression_ratio":1.8106060606060606,"no_speech_prob":0.0003981590270996094,"words":[]},{"start":2932.32,"end":2937.84,"text":" to get things done at the center is the dgen token it rewards engagement fuels tipping and drives","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10294117647058823,"compression_ratio":1.8106060606060606,"no_speech_prob":0.0003981590270996094,"words":[]},{"start":2937.84,"end":2943.2000000000003,"text":" the marketplace for builders and fans that same energy gave rise to dgen chain a fast low cost","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10294117647058823,"compression_ratio":1.8106060606060606,"no_speech_prob":0.0003981590270996094,"words":[]},{"start":2943.2000000000003,"end":2948.48,"text":" layer 3 for new projects and now the dgen app the easiest way to connect earn and participate in","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10294117647058823,"compression_ratio":1.8106060606060606,"no_speech_prob":0.0003981590270996094,"words":[]},{"start":2948.48,"end":2953.04,"text":" decentralized social media with the built in wallet and real token utility and dgen the","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.19755747126436782,"compression_ratio":1.7008928571428572,"no_speech_prob":0.0130157470703125,"words":[]},{"start":2953.04,"end":2959.76,"text":" has days on join dgen and get on the app weight list at www dot dgen dot tips all right so now we","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.19755747126436782,"compression_ratio":1.7008928571428572,"no_speech_prob":0.0130157470703125,"words":[]},{"start":2959.76,"end":2965.76,"text":" get to the question evaluation so we you know went through the entire story of of hyper liquid and","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.19755747126436782,"compression_ratio":1.7008928571428572,"no_speech_prob":0.0130157470703125,"words":[]},{"start":2965.76,"end":2971.2,"text":" we talked about the revenue talk about the platform product market fit uh it all seems fantastic","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.19755747126436782,"compression_ratio":1.7008928571428572,"no_speech_prob":0.0130157470703125,"words":[]},{"start":2971.2000000000003,"end":2978.1600000000003,"text":" revenue the token has a story the question is what about at the current price right and uh","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10371767241379311,"compression_ratio":1.737556561085973,"no_speech_prob":0.0006666183471679688,"words":[]},{"start":2978.1600000000003,"end":2983.92,"text":" how do you answer that question with respect to valuation hyper liquid is it at at these prices","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10371767241379311,"compression_ratio":1.737556561085973,"no_speech_prob":0.0006666183471679688,"words":[]},{"start":2983.92,"end":2990.88,"text":" you know above 40 is this still a good buy or have we essentially missed it it's these these are","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10371767241379311,"compression_ratio":1.737556561085973,"no_speech_prob":0.0006666183471679688,"words":[]},{"start":2990.88,"end":2997.44,"text":" really hard questions to ask and I think it's really hard to sort of model forward you know revenues","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10371767241379311,"compression_ratio":1.737556561085973,"no_speech_prob":0.0006666183471679688,"words":[]},{"start":2997.44,"end":3003.12,"text":" and fundamentals and crypto because of the the cycles and so if you're just looking at this","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09751420454545455,"compression_ratio":1.782442748091603,"no_speech_prob":0.0008831024169921875,"words":[]},{"start":3003.76,"end":3010,"text":" and looking at like hyper liquids last you know 30 to 90 day performance and then trying to model","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09751420454545455,"compression_ratio":1.782442748091603,"no_speech_prob":0.0008831024169921875,"words":[]},{"start":3010,"end":3014.88,"text":" out from there I think you're probably gonna overshoot you're gonna it's gonna look really","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09751420454545455,"compression_ratio":1.782442748091603,"no_speech_prob":0.0008831024169921875,"words":[]},{"start":3014.88,"end":3018.56,"text":" undervalued if you kind of look at it right there because you're just kind of capturing the","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09751420454545455,"compression_ratio":1.782442748091603,"no_speech_prob":0.0008831024169921875,"words":[]},{"start":3019.28,"end":3024.08,"text":" the meat of the bull market and so this is a challenge and and what we try to do in the report","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09751420454545455,"compression_ratio":1.782442748091603,"no_speech_prob":0.0008831024169921875,"words":[]},{"start":3024.08,"end":3027.84,"text":" that we shared was just kind of look at like let's just look at actually what has happened instead","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09972826086956521,"compression_ratio":1.7573529411764706,"no_speech_prob":0.0016231536865234375,"words":[]},{"start":3027.84,"end":3033.44,"text":" of try to look look forward and if you look at it from that perspective we didn't uh factor in","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09972826086956521,"compression_ratio":1.7573529411764706,"no_speech_prob":0.0016231536865234375,"words":[]},{"start":3033.44,"end":3038.4,"text":" this like Artemis framework here with like backing out the the buybacks but you get to a price","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09972826086956521,"compression_ratio":1.7573529411764706,"no_speech_prob":0.0016231536865234375,"words":[]},{"start":3038.4,"end":3044.96,"text":" of sales of around 22 or for hyper liquid right now okay um so that's like a little you know if","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09972826086956521,"compression_ratio":1.7573529411764706,"no_speech_prob":0.0016231536865234375,"words":[]},{"start":3044.96,"end":3051.12,"text":" you're just like comparing that to um you know your average tech fintech high growth you know","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09972826086956521,"compression_ratio":1.7573529411764706,"no_speech_prob":0.0016231536865234375,"words":[]},{"start":3051.12,"end":3055.7599999999998,"text":" that's like a little bit higher than than normal um if you're comparing it to like something like","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11462823275862069,"compression_ratio":1.85,"no_speech_prob":0.0004801750183105469,"words":[]},{"start":3055.7599999999998,"end":3061.68,"text":" you know either salana then it looks actually like extremely you know undervalued um so there's","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11462823275862069,"compression_ratio":1.85,"no_speech_prob":0.0004801750183105469,"words":[]},{"start":3061.68,"end":3067.2799999999997,"text":" different ways to look at this we looked at Coinbase Coinbase has a price of sales of around 10 um","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11462823275862069,"compression_ratio":1.85,"no_speech_prob":0.0004801750183105469,"words":[]},{"start":3067.2799999999997,"end":3072.72,"text":" and so there's there's different ways to to view this I think the way I think of it is like","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11462823275862069,"compression_ratio":1.85,"no_speech_prob":0.0004801750183105469,"words":[]},{"start":3072.72,"end":3078.56,"text":" that valuation seems pretty fair uh you know based on when you do that sort of 12 month lookback","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11462823275862069,"compression_ratio":1.85,"no_speech_prob":0.0004801750183105469,"words":[]},{"start":3079.2,"end":3083.84,"text":" um and then the other piece of it that needs to get factored in is now the build out of the EVM","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13365255376344087,"compression_ratio":1.7612612612612613,"no_speech_prob":0.0015010833740234375,"words":[]},{"start":3084.64,"end":3090.24,"text":" and all these other applications that are going to drive users and fees also to the protocol so","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13365255376344087,"compression_ratio":1.7612612612612613,"no_speech_prob":0.0015010833740234375,"words":[]},{"start":3090.24,"end":3096.72,"text":" you're adding in like another line of revenue to to the layer one itself um so you know hard to say","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13365255376344087,"compression_ratio":1.7612612612612613,"no_speech_prob":0.0015010833740234375,"words":[]},{"start":3096.72,"end":3103.6,"text":" you know crypto valuations are you know can can can totally detach um from the fundamentals as well","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13365255376344087,"compression_ratio":1.7612612612612613,"no_speech_prob":0.0015010833740234375,"words":[]},{"start":3103.6,"end":3111.04,"text":" and I would say this one the fundamentals support the the valuation today and it'll be interesting to","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14730902777777777,"compression_ratio":1.6371308016877637,"no_speech_prob":0.0011339187622070312,"words":[]},{"start":3111.04,"end":3118.48,"text":" see you know if it actually does if it did detach then you're looking at like a a pretty big move","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14730902777777777,"compression_ratio":1.6371308016877637,"no_speech_prob":0.0011339187622070312,"words":[]},{"start":3118.48,"end":3123.52,"text":" for hyper liquid at some point you know you know maybe later in this in this cycle potentially","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14730902777777777,"compression_ratio":1.6371308016877637,"no_speech_prob":0.0011339187622070312,"words":[]},{"start":3123.52,"end":3128.7999999999997,"text":" what's kind of the annualized number right now I'd add a 12 month lookback or something maybe","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.14730902777777777,"compression_ratio":1.6371308016877637,"no_speech_prob":0.0011339187622070312,"words":[]},{"start":3128.8,"end":3133.6800000000003,"text":" more recent because like if you look at something like Coinbase Coinbase's market value of about 80","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13757102272727273,"compression_ratio":1.7617328519855595,"no_speech_prob":0.00490570068359375,"words":[]},{"start":3133.6800000000003,"end":3140.32,"text":" billion right that's the enterprise value on about seven billion in revenue I believe yeah yeah","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13757102272727273,"compression_ratio":1.7617328519855595,"no_speech_prob":0.00490570068359375,"words":[]},{"start":3140.32,"end":3145.52,"text":" so what's hyper liquid in in terms of annualized revenue on the annualized revenue I don't have it","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13757102272727273,"compression_ratio":1.7617328519855595,"no_speech_prob":0.00490570068359375,"words":[]},{"start":3145.52,"end":3149.84,"text":" in front of me it was 409 million over six months I want to say it was like between six and seven","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13757102272727273,"compression_ratio":1.7617328519855595,"no_speech_prob":0.00490570068359375,"words":[]},{"start":3149.84,"end":3157.2000000000003,"text":" hundred million or so uh from a 12 month perspective somewhere impressive impressive yes so but","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13757102272727273,"compression_ratio":1.7617328519855595,"no_speech_prob":0.00490570068359375,"words":[]},{"start":3157.6800000000003,"end":3162.0000000000005,"text":" but still I mean I guess we're in kind of the low billions maybe over a billion something like","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13738207547169812,"compression_ratio":1.7761194029850746,"no_speech_prob":0.0006461143493652344,"words":[]},{"start":3162.0000000000005,"end":3168.0000000000005,"text":" that one up to billion whereas Coinbase is seven billion and Coinbase valuation is 80 billion versus","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13738207547169812,"compression_ratio":1.7761194029850746,"no_speech_prob":0.0006461143493652344,"words":[]},{"start":3168.4,"end":3173.6000000000004,"text":" hyper liquid again it depends what we use I don't think it's right to use the fully diluted","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13738207547169812,"compression_ratio":1.7761194029850746,"no_speech_prob":0.0006461143493652344,"words":[]},{"start":3173.6000000000004,"end":3179.84,"text":" valuation though here right so which is 44 billion yeah yeah it's probably somewhere between","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13738207547169812,"compression_ratio":1.7761194029850746,"no_speech_prob":0.0006461143493652344,"words":[]},{"start":3179.84,"end":3186.4800000000005,"text":" market cap and fully diluted valuation so fairly valued I suppose in terms of a comp comparison","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.13738207547169812,"compression_ratio":1.7761194029850746,"no_speech_prob":0.0006461143493652344,"words":[]},{"start":3186.48,"end":3192,"text":" to Coinbase yeah I agree you don't want to use the fully diluted you know you can you can look at","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11873282967032966,"compression_ratio":1.7268722466960353,"no_speech_prob":0.0013456344604492188,"words":[]},{"start":3192,"end":3196.96,"text":" that we kind of look at everything but yeah I think you want to you come in somewhere around where","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11873282967032966,"compression_ratio":1.7268722466960353,"no_speech_prob":0.0013456344604492188,"words":[]},{"start":3196.96,"end":3202.4,"text":" the circulating supplies and you can actually adjust that down even for the the buybacks as well","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11873282967032966,"compression_ratio":1.7268722466960353,"no_speech_prob":0.0013456344604492188,"words":[]},{"start":3202.4,"end":3209.6,"text":" so if you adjusted that down the price of sales probably coming in closer to maybe 15 16 somewhere","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11873282967032966,"compression_ratio":1.7268722466960353,"no_speech_prob":0.0013456344604492188,"words":[]},{"start":3209.6,"end":3217.04,"text":" in that range which is pretty reasonable for you know like a publicly traded high growth","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1184593023255814,"compression_ratio":1.665158371040724,"no_speech_prob":0.0018672943115234375,"words":[]},{"start":3217.04,"end":3224.24,"text":" fintech company this is this thing is less than a year old it's growing like a weed so yeah I think","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1184593023255814,"compression_ratio":1.665158371040724,"no_speech_prob":0.0018672943115234375,"words":[]},{"start":3224.24,"end":3231.12,"text":" the fundamentals support you know that valuation I think as long as they continue to print","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1184593023255814,"compression_ratio":1.665158371040724,"no_speech_prob":0.0018672943115234375,"words":[]},{"start":3231.12,"end":3234.64,"text":" cash in those users stay and like that's always the big question is like if we go into a","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1184593023255814,"compression_ratio":1.665158371040724,"no_speech_prob":0.0018672943115234375,"words":[]},{"start":3234.64,"end":3239.12,"text":" better market what do these fundamentals you know look like is that are the revenues going to drop","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11787280701754387,"compression_ratio":1.8235294117647058,"no_speech_prob":0.00388336181640625,"words":[]},{"start":3239.12,"end":3244.7999999999997,"text":" 90% you know what does that mean for the the valuation as well so I think that's always the big question","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11787280701754387,"compression_ratio":1.8235294117647058,"no_speech_prob":0.00388336181640625,"words":[]},{"start":3244.7999999999997,"end":3249.44,"text":" but you know if you're just looking at the performance of the last year it's it's the final the","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11787280701754387,"compression_ratio":1.8235294117647058,"no_speech_prob":0.00388336181640625,"words":[]},{"start":3249.44,"end":3254.7999999999997,"text":" fundamentals support I think especially when you look at crypto valuations it looks it does look","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11787280701754387,"compression_ratio":1.8235294117647058,"no_speech_prob":0.00388336181640625,"words":[]},{"start":3254.7999999999997,"end":3260.8799999999997,"text":" undervalued my my take on this too and maybe on the on the bullish side of things is the comparison","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11787280701754387,"compression_ratio":1.8235294117647058,"no_speech_prob":0.00388336181640625,"words":[]},{"start":3260.88,"end":3266.48,"text":" to L ones is probably not quite where I go where I'd probably go is a comparison to something like","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09312140804597702,"compression_ratio":1.7252252252252251,"no_speech_prob":0.003376007080078125,"words":[]},{"start":3266.48,"end":3272.6400000000003,"text":" tether and what's fascinating about the story like hyper liquid and the things that you can do","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09312140804597702,"compression_ratio":1.7252252252252251,"no_speech_prob":0.003376007080078125,"words":[]},{"start":3272.6400000000003,"end":3279.28,"text":" on chain is how fast how far how quickly you can scale on chain because again it's globally","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09312140804597702,"compression_ratio":1.7252252252252251,"no_speech_prob":0.003376007080078125,"words":[]},{"start":3279.28,"end":3286.96,"text":" available market liquidity it just like it's instant access to this and revenue per employee is a","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09312140804597702,"compression_ratio":1.7252252252252251,"no_speech_prob":0.003376007080078125,"words":[]},{"start":3286.96,"end":3291.84,"text":" key metric to kind of look at right so you look at hyper liquid hyper liquid has passed and","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11748798076923077,"compression_ratio":1.8764940239043826,"no_speech_prob":0.00243377685546875,"words":[]},{"start":3291.84,"end":3298.48,"text":" video apple even tether also meta in terms of revenue per employee per employee hyper liquid","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11748798076923077,"compression_ratio":1.8764940239043826,"no_speech_prob":0.00243377685546875,"words":[]},{"start":3298.48,"end":3306.64,"text":" revenue a hundred and two million dollars per employee nothing else is close of course tether","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11748798076923077,"compression_ratio":1.8764940239043826,"no_speech_prob":0.00243377685546875,"words":[]},{"start":3306.64,"end":3311.84,"text":" is very famously incredibly profitable per employee we had follow on the episode and he was like","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11748798076923077,"compression_ratio":1.8764940239043826,"no_speech_prob":0.00243377685546875,"words":[]},{"start":3311.84,"end":3316,"text":" yeah we do profits north of 10 billion we don't even batten eyelash I'm like how many employees","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.11748798076923077,"compression_ratio":1.8764940239043826,"no_speech_prob":0.00243377685546875,"words":[]},{"start":3316,"end":3324.56,"text":" you have he's like 150 okay 93 million revenue per employee for tether okay the top two","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10766006097560976,"compression_ratio":1.705607476635514,"no_speech_prob":0.0010004043579101562,"words":[]},{"start":3324.56,"end":3328.96,"text":" companies in terms of revenue per employee if you call hyper liquid a company are hyper liquid","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10766006097560976,"compression_ratio":1.705607476635514,"no_speech_prob":0.0010004043579101562,"words":[]},{"start":3328.96,"end":3334.8,"text":" and tether the next up is only fans and that's 37 million per employee so incredibly profitable","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10766006097560976,"compression_ratio":1.705607476635514,"no_speech_prob":0.0010004043579101562,"words":[]},{"start":3334.8,"end":3342,"text":" as well so the level of scale that you can get with internet native on chain platforms","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10766006097560976,"compression_ratio":1.705607476635514,"no_speech_prob":0.0010004043579101562,"words":[]},{"start":3342,"end":3348.48,"text":" in the profitability levels are just off the charts incredible and so like if you're telling me that","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10916193181818182,"compression_ratio":1.8036363636363637,"no_speech_prob":0.0030269622802734375,"words":[]},{"start":3348.48,"end":3354.56,"text":" you know what valuation metrics are somewhat like you know fast growing thin tech maybe a little bit","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10916193181818182,"compression_ratio":1.8036363636363637,"no_speech_prob":0.0030269622802734375,"words":[]},{"start":3354.56,"end":3359.36,"text":" higher I'm like well okay this seems like a screaming buy because this is not growing like a fast","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10916193181818182,"compression_ratio":1.8036363636363637,"no_speech_prob":0.0030269622802734375,"words":[]},{"start":3359.36,"end":3365.44,"text":" growing thin tech this is growing like an on chain product market fit scale to the world type of","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10916193181818182,"compression_ratio":1.8036363636363637,"no_speech_prob":0.0030269622802734375,"words":[]},{"start":3365.44,"end":3371.12,"text":" company and the only thing that can slow it down is I don't know some sort of black swan regulation","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10916193181818182,"compression_ratio":1.8036363636363637,"no_speech_prob":0.0030269622802734375,"words":[]},{"start":3371.12,"end":3376.16,"text":" even a crypto bear market right that presents sort of a buying opportunity if you believe that","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10192587209302326,"compression_ratio":1.6899563318777293,"no_speech_prob":0.003482818603515625,"words":[]},{"start":3376.16,"end":3382.16,"text":" hyper liquid can still stay ahead so I guess what we're I'm saying on the bull cases like nothing","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10192587209302326,"compression_ratio":1.6899563318777293,"no_speech_prob":0.003482818603515625,"words":[]},{"start":3382.16,"end":3387.52,"text":" really scales compared to crypto and that might be the the most bullish scenario here in the","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10192587209302326,"compression_ratio":1.6899563318777293,"no_speech_prob":0.003482818603515625,"words":[]},{"start":3387.52,"end":3395.3599999999997,"text":" and the story here I think so and if you're you know a developer entrepreneur you know sitting in web","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10192587209302326,"compression_ratio":1.6899563318777293,"no_speech_prob":0.003482818603515625,"words":[]},{"start":3395.36,"end":3401.52,"text":" to right now maybe you're you're in you know maybe we'll call them red ocean markets where there's","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09260506465517242,"compression_ratio":1.8395522388059702,"no_speech_prob":0.00279998779296875,"words":[]},{"start":3401.52,"end":3407.36,"text":" just you know lots of competition and it's really hard to get to scale and you look over the fans","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09260506465517242,"compression_ratio":1.8395522388059702,"no_speech_prob":0.00279998779296875,"words":[]},{"start":3407.36,"end":3413.44,"text":" and see what's happening in crypto I mean this is just incredible what can happen and the scale that","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09260506465517242,"compression_ratio":1.8395522388059702,"no_speech_prob":0.00279998779296875,"words":[]},{"start":3413.44,"end":3418.8,"text":" these companies can get to in such a short period of time with a global market and and sort of","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09260506465517242,"compression_ratio":1.8395522388059702,"no_speech_prob":0.00279998779296875,"words":[]},{"start":3418.8,"end":3423.36,"text":" this permissionless access it's got to be pretty exciting for for people to build I mean we saw this","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09260506465517242,"compression_ratio":1.8395522388059702,"no_speech_prob":0.00279998779296875,"words":[]},{"start":3423.36,"end":3427.6,"text":" with pump you know dot fawn and the amount of you know revenues that they're printing as well","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08814988938053098,"compression_ratio":1.7355072463768115,"no_speech_prob":0.0004878044128417969,"words":[]},{"start":3427.6,"end":3433.6,"text":" so yeah crypto is enabling just these incredibly incredibly lean efficient scalable businesses and","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08814988938053098,"compression_ratio":1.7355072463768115,"no_speech_prob":0.0004878044128417969,"words":[]},{"start":3433.6,"end":3438,"text":" I think that's the big takeaway yeah what's nice is this all comes in the form of a liquid token","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08814988938053098,"compression_ratio":1.7355072463768115,"no_speech_prob":0.0004878044128417969,"words":[]},{"start":3438,"end":3441.92,"text":" that you can buy I mean you can't I wish we had exposure to tether there's no way to get that","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08814988938053098,"compression_ratio":1.7355072463768115,"no_speech_prob":0.0004878044128417969,"words":[]},{"start":3441.92,"end":3446.96,"text":" right now they don't have a token right hyper liquid you do okay so in summary I'm curious what","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.08814988938053098,"compression_ratio":1.7355072463768115,"no_speech_prob":0.0004878044128417969,"words":[]},{"start":3446.96,"end":3454.08,"text":" are you personally doing here Mike so I know you've got the DeFi report portfolio and I mean are","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10084575688073394,"compression_ratio":1.7916666666666667,"no_speech_prob":0.0007672309875488281,"words":[]},{"start":3454.08,"end":3459.44,"text":" you looking are you a buyer here or what are you doing personally so you know my strategy","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10084575688073394,"compression_ratio":1.7916666666666667,"no_speech_prob":0.0007672309875488281,"words":[]},{"start":3459.44,"end":3464.7200000000003,"text":" historically I'm usually not super early to things it's I like to sort of do a lot of research","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10084575688073394,"compression_ratio":1.7916666666666667,"no_speech_prob":0.0007672309875488281,"words":[]},{"start":3464.7200000000003,"end":3471.12,"text":" and we you know we waited to cut even cover hyper liquid after going through this research and","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10084575688073394,"compression_ratio":1.7916666666666667,"no_speech_prob":0.0007672309875488281,"words":[]},{"start":3471.12,"end":3476.32,"text":" you know spending a lot of time playing around with the protocol itself we've decided that we're","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10084575688073394,"compression_ratio":1.7916666666666667,"no_speech_prob":0.0007672309875488281,"words":[]},{"start":3476.32,"end":3481.6000000000004,"text":" actually going to add hyper liquid to our roster of ecosystems that we cover so that's","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1265625,"compression_ratio":1.6642335766423357,"no_speech_prob":0.0001442432403564453,"words":[]},{"start":3481.6000000000004,"end":3487.6000000000004,"text":" history been Bitcoin Ethan soul so that gives you an idea of like how strongly I feel about it","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1265625,"compression_ratio":1.6642335766423357,"no_speech_prob":0.0001442432403564453,"words":[]},{"start":3488.32,"end":3492.8,"text":" we're going to be releasing a report with our pro members tomorrow and kind of sharing","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1265625,"compression_ratio":1.6642335766423357,"no_speech_prob":0.0001442432403564453,"words":[]},{"start":3492.8,"end":3497.6800000000003,"text":" you know what we're doing in terms of portfolio management but generally speaking like the way","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1265625,"compression_ratio":1.6642335766423357,"no_speech_prob":0.0001442432403564453,"words":[]},{"start":3497.6800000000003,"end":3503.36,"text":" that I'm approaching this is to keep an eye on it you know as the EVM is now building on and","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1265625,"compression_ratio":1.6642335766423357,"no_speech_prob":0.0001442432403564453,"words":[]},{"start":3503.36,"end":3509.44,"text":" we're seeing a lot of energy around people that want to come and build on top of the L1 you know","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10894886363636364,"compression_ratio":1.7878787878787878,"no_speech_prob":0.0028438568115234375,"words":[]},{"start":3509.44,"end":3512.96,"text":" we're going to continue to follow the story and I think this could get really interesting","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10894886363636364,"compression_ratio":1.7878787878787878,"no_speech_prob":0.0028438568115234375,"words":[]},{"start":3512.96,"end":3519.6,"text":" potentially in in a bear market similar to like kind of what we saw with with with Solana hopefully","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10894886363636364,"compression_ratio":1.7878787878787878,"no_speech_prob":0.0028438568115234375,"words":[]},{"start":3519.6,"end":3525.28,"text":" there isn't some issue with like an FTX that causes something to happen there but I this is","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10894886363636364,"compression_ratio":1.7878787878787878,"no_speech_prob":0.0028438568115234375,"words":[]},{"start":3525.28,"end":3530.08,"text":" something that where we're sort of like probably going to I in the bear market interesting so","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.10894886363636364,"compression_ratio":1.7878787878787878,"no_speech_prob":0.0028438568115234375,"words":[]},{"start":3530.08,"end":3535.04,"text":" if I know you in your place you might be scaling into it a little bit now and definitely you know","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09868421052631579,"compression_ratio":1.7562724014336917,"no_speech_prob":0.0013246536254882812,"words":[]},{"start":3535.04,"end":3540.08,"text":" sharpening your analyst edge looking all the on-chain data and scaling into it a little bit but","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09868421052631579,"compression_ratio":1.7562724014336917,"no_speech_prob":0.0013246536254882812,"words":[]},{"start":3540.08,"end":3545.2,"text":" then really looking for bear market by type of opportunities that might come later because there's","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09868421052631579,"compression_ratio":1.7562724014336917,"no_speech_prob":0.0013246536254882812,"words":[]},{"start":3545.2,"end":3550.64,"text":" no rush on this at some level right you could be a patient investor and build into value yeah yeah","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09868421052631579,"compression_ratio":1.7562724014336917,"no_speech_prob":0.0013246536254882812,"words":[]},{"start":3550.64,"end":3557.04,"text":" I could totally see this you know it's I think we're almost at 50 billion FTV like you know we saw","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.09868421052631579,"compression_ratio":1.7562724014336917,"no_speech_prob":0.0013246536254882812,"words":[]},{"start":3557.04,"end":3562.88,"text":" some stuff in the last cycle sort of later stage of the cycle the things that a lot of stuff that","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1853448275862069,"compression_ratio":1.743682310469314,"no_speech_prob":0.01132965087890625,"words":[]},{"start":3562.88,"end":3567.12,"text":" didn't pan out over the longer term I think this is hopefully different but it's it's definitely","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1853448275862069,"compression_ratio":1.743682310469314,"no_speech_prob":0.01132965087890625,"words":[]},{"start":3567.12,"end":3572.24,"text":" possible that this thing could get a hundred billion you know FTV I would I would think this cycle","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1853448275862069,"compression_ratio":1.743682310469314,"no_speech_prob":0.01132965087890625,"words":[]},{"start":3572.24,"end":3576.8,"text":" possibly even higher so well big listation if you want to see some of Mike's research is all on the","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1853448275862069,"compression_ratio":1.743682310469314,"no_speech_prob":0.01132965087890625,"words":[]},{"start":3576.8,"end":3582.96,"text":" DeFi report the DeFi report dot IO the hyper liquid memo memo excuse me was a part of the","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.1853448275862069,"compression_ratio":1.743682310469314,"no_speech_prob":0.01132965087890625,"words":[]},{"start":3583.92,"end":3588.08,"text":" report that spawned this episode so go check that out Mike thanks so much for joining us today","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.19302591463414634,"compression_ratio":1.6157407407407407,"no_speech_prob":0.002590179443359375,"words":[]},{"start":3588.56,"end":3592.96,"text":" thanks Rob got to let you know of course none of this has been financial advice crypto is risky you","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.19302591463414634,"compression_ratio":1.6157407407407407,"no_speech_prob":0.002590179443359375,"words":[]},{"start":3592.96,"end":3596.96,"text":" could lose what you put in but we are headed west this is the frontier not for everyone but","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.19302591463414634,"compression_ratio":1.6157407407407407,"no_speech_prob":0.002590179443359375,"words":[]},{"start":3596.96,"end":3600.96,"text":" we're glad you're with us in the bankless journey thanks a lot","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.19302591463414634,"compression_ratio":1.6157407407407407,"no_speech_prob":0.002590179443359375,"words":[]},{"start":3612.96,"end":3615.04,"text":" you","temperature":0,"avg_logprob":-0.95703125,"compression_ratio":0.2727272727272727,"no_speech_prob":0.51416015625,"words":[]}],"vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n1\n00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.960\n Hey bankless nation special episode for you today it's something that I've wanted to dig\n\n2\n00:00:06.960 --> 00:00:11.919\n into for some time what is the bull case for hype hype of course is the hyper liquid token\n\n3\n00:00:11.919 --> 00:00:16.480\n this is the perps exchange that is taking all of crypto by storm they also have an EVM\n\n4\n00:00:16.480 --> 00:00:23.280\n chain the question on my mind is is it too late to buy should I buy hype now or is it overvalued\n\n5\n00:00:23.280 --> 00:00:28.560\n uh that's the question overvalued or undervalued at current price and what is this project and also\n\n6\n00:00:28.560 --> 00:00:35.120\n what are the risks as a user what sort of property rights do I have and is hyper liquid a threat to\n\n7\n00:00:35.120 --> 00:00:41.040\n other layer ones something like a theorem or the L2s or Solana we get into all that and more\n\n8\n00:00:41.040 --> 00:00:46.000\n with our guest Michael NATO from the defy report before we get in want to shout out our friends\n\n9\n00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:51.680\n and sponsors over at sanctum they are not just the fourth largest Solana protocol they are one of the\n\n10\n00:00:51.679 --> 00:00:58.320\n leaders of Solana staking that is Solana liquid staking they're setting a new standard for token\n\n11\n00:00:58.320 --> 00:01:03.439\n transparency in the space they've partnered with block works I don't know if you've seen this\n\n12\n00:01:03.439 --> 00:01:08.879\n they have token transparency reports they have a native token called cloud and they became one of\n\n13\n00:01:08.879 --> 00:01:15.680\n only two companies to score a perfect 40 out of 40 on block works token transparency framework\n\n14\n00:01:15.680 --> 00:01:21.439\n and of course token transparency something that is essential for investors moving forward in crypto\n\n15\n00:01:21.439 --> 00:01:26.879\n to give their stakeholders a deeper look at their progress they've just published a quarterly report\n\n16\n00:01:26.879 --> 00:01:32.560\n this might be a crypto native quarterly report the kind that you'd see out of tradify and we'll\n\n17\n00:01:32.560 --> 00:01:37.439\n include a link to that in the show notes is a comprehensive report that gives you a clear picture\n\n18\n00:01:37.439 --> 00:01:42.879\n of what they're up to and their business driver so if you're serious about due diligence go check\n\n19\n00:01:42.879 --> 00:01:47.759\n out sanctum go check out that token report you can't miss it there's a link in the show notes all\n\n20\n00:01:47.760 --> 00:01:51.600\n right guys we're talking about hype today we've got Michael from the defy report and you wrote\n\n21\n00:01:51.600 --> 00:01:55.680\n this memo over the weekend that I had a chance to read actually was published on Friday and I've\n\n22\n00:01:55.680 --> 00:02:02.160\n read it this weekend the hyper liquid memo is the hype warranted and I think we got to start here\n\n23\n00:02:02.160 --> 00:02:08.719\n with the objective truth which is hype is minting and printing a lot of money right now these revenue\n\n24\n00:02:08.719 --> 00:02:15.040\n charts look incredible what are we seeing on the hype revenue side from like daily fees perspective\n\n25\n00:02:16.000 --> 00:02:20.400\n yeah printing printing money I think is is the story here and it was something that we just\n\n26\n00:02:20.400 --> 00:02:24.959\n like kind of couldn't ignore so we've been kind of you know watching hyper liquid from a far\n\n27\n00:02:24.959 --> 00:02:31.439\n for a little while and the protocol just continues to to print cash it's a it's a purpose dex\n\n28\n00:02:31.439 --> 00:02:35.840\n and really start as an app chain and really started with a product focus and we're going to get\n\n29\n00:02:35.840 --> 00:02:41.359\n into I think the inception story which is really a lot of the story here but yeah just just really\n\n30\n00:02:41.360 --> 00:02:47.120\n you know making a lot of money and challenging you know the fees that some of these larger L1s\n\n31\n00:02:47.120 --> 00:02:53.280\n are produced producing as well on the start we're seeing 3.5 million in daily fees that's what\n\n32\n00:02:53.280 --> 00:02:59.840\n hyper liquid as kind of a protocol as a perps exchange is doing right now that's the revenue\n\n33\n00:02:59.840 --> 00:03:06.400\n that is generating 3.5 per day yes yes and this has been on an upward trajectory it's kind of like\n\n34\n00:03:06.480 --> 00:03:11.439\n doubled or tripled since the beginning of this year yes volumes are up open interest is up\n\n35\n00:03:11.439 --> 00:03:16.960\n you know animal spirits are on chain right now and so yeah hyper liquid is really kind of attracting\n\n36\n00:03:16.960 --> 00:03:21.280\n a lot of the energy and crypto right now I was talking to his Zeb on the roll up yesterday and\n\n37\n00:03:21.280 --> 00:03:25.680\n we had some charge because it just sort of crescendo if it kind of hit a moment it felt like last\n\n38\n00:03:25.680 --> 00:03:29.759\n week where people were noticing all of this activity on on hype and of course every time there's\n\n39\n00:03:29.759 --> 00:03:34.560\n a big trade because it's all on chain you can see the big trade and so they'll be like oh Bitcoin\n\n40\n00:03:34.560 --> 00:03:40.479\n well you know swapping this amount of Bitcoin for like some other asset and everyone notices it\n\n41\n00:03:40.479 --> 00:03:46.159\n everyone sees it because it's in the billions of dollars so here's a tweet hype is doing 36 percent\n\n42\n00:03:46.159 --> 00:03:52.480\n of all crypto revenues while its market cap is 1.2 percent of total crypto market cap and here's a\n\n43\n00:03:52.480 --> 00:03:58.640\n chart where you see hyper liquid this is in a dark green here compared to all of the other sources\n\n44\n00:03:58.880 --> 00:04:05.600\n of network revenue compared to other layer 1 chains and other layer 2s etc and that's a massive\n\n45\n00:04:05.600 --> 00:04:11.600\n amount of all of crypto's revenue that's now happening on hype another way to look at this is\n\n46\n00:04:11.600 --> 00:04:18.080\n compare it to directly to salana and ethereum this is a posting no one is si-opsing mean to\n\n47\n00:04:18.080 --> 00:04:24.560\n thinking hype is anywhere near fair value because this is a poster comparing the value the revenue\n\n48\n00:04:24.560 --> 00:04:29.759\n generated by ethereum and salana to hyper liquid and over this time period ethereum ethereum was\n\n49\n00:04:29.759 --> 00:04:37.920\n like 3.3 million salana 1 million and hyper liquid like 28 million okay and you're seeing some of\n\n50\n00:04:37.920 --> 00:04:44.160\n those stats too when you when you put together your memo this is a six month fees this is hyper liquid\n\n51\n00:04:44.959 --> 00:04:53.120\n fees in terms of millions 409 million versus ethereum over the last six months 332 million and salana\n\n52\n00:04:53.120 --> 00:05:01.199\n 233 million so what is this story telling you it's telling me that hyper liquid has a really\n\n53\n00:05:01.199 --> 00:05:07.680\n really active like core user base what's pretty interesting about this is there's only a those fees\n\n54\n00:05:07.680 --> 00:05:14.079\n of 409 million over the last six months is coming from a subset of users that is in the range of\n\n55\n00:05:14.079 --> 00:05:20.800\n like 40 to 60 thousand per day so the story is interesting because when when you zoom out I mean\n\n56\n00:05:20.800 --> 00:05:26.079\n they launched less than a year ago to be printing that much money over over six months is pretty wild\n\n57\n00:05:26.079 --> 00:05:32.800\n yeah but it's coming from a very kind of small subset of users that are that are very active on\n\n58\n00:05:32.800 --> 00:05:42.240\n hyper liquid and actually Artemis has some data on the average revenue per user and it's like 1.6k per\n\n59\n00:05:42.240 --> 00:05:49.759\n month that that hyper liquid users are spending on the protocol so this is it you have a chart right\n\n60\n00:05:49.759 --> 00:05:58.159\n so 1.6 1.6k per user per month per user yeah per month that's a monthly chart that doesn't feel\n\n61\n00:05:58.159 --> 00:06:05.439\n like a lot but I guess that's way more than any other crypto app for sure yeah I mean when we look\n\n62\n00:06:05.439 --> 00:06:09.680\n at some of this for for you know some of the other larger L1s it's it's it's definitely much\n\n63\n00:06:09.680 --> 00:06:15.120\n lower than that you know much more users on these these larger chains but what it's interesting\n\n64\n00:06:15.120 --> 00:06:19.920\n to us that that's basically paying the all the bills for the entire ecosystem this is you know\n\n65\n00:06:19.920 --> 00:06:24.639\n kind of our understanding of how crypto trading works there's tends to be pretty concentrated\n\n66\n00:06:25.519 --> 00:06:31.360\n subset of really active users that drive most of of the economics and we're certainly seeing\n\n67\n00:06:31.360 --> 00:06:36.480\n that that play out on hyperlicker right now these are like the whales okay so anyway the story here\n\n68\n00:06:36.480 --> 00:06:41.840\n the objective truth is that hype is printing money right now there's a massive amount of revenue\n\n69\n00:06:41.920 --> 00:06:47.200\n I want to maybe for the rest of this episode talk to you about the the subjective question\n\n70\n00:06:47.200 --> 00:06:52.800\n for the investor for the analyst in the space which is at the current market price is hype\n\n71\n00:06:52.800 --> 00:06:59.200\n a buy is it overvalued or is it undervalued because certainly if you look at the charts you know\n\n72\n00:06:59.200 --> 00:07:06.320\n we can see this like max charts it's definitely gone up quite a bit from about you know November\n\n73\n00:07:07.279 --> 00:07:12.959\n of twenty twenty four the price of hype was six dollars and fifty cents and now we're almost\n\n74\n00:07:12.959 --> 00:07:21.519\n above where or above forty so almost forty five and so this a massive appreciation in less than a\n\n75\n00:07:21.519 --> 00:07:26.079\n year's time so it's kind of a question well Mike I don't know man it's cool to see all the revenue\n\n76\n00:07:26.079 --> 00:07:31.120\n but are we late to the game I guess you can look at the fully diluted valuation and you got\n\n77\n00:07:31.120 --> 00:07:37.360\n forty four billion right here the market cap that's just it tokens that are outstanding is is\n\n78\n00:07:37.360 --> 00:07:42.240\n a twelve billion and then I guess if you look at the top crypto market cap it's not in the type\n\n79\n00:07:42.240 --> 00:07:47.680\n top ten right now but it is number seventeen so hype is number number seventeen there so there's\n\n80\n00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:53.920\n always the question of a valuation maybe to answer that question we should talk a little bit about\n\n81\n00:07:53.920 --> 00:07:59.920\n the inception story and then talk about the product and and just unpack this a bit more so maybe\n\n82\n00:08:00.080 --> 00:08:06.240\n starting there with the inception story of of hype so you said it's only been active for a year\n\n83\n00:08:06.240 --> 00:08:12.160\n or so how did this project come to be what is it yeah so you know Genesis Genesis event when they\n\n84\n00:08:12.879 --> 00:08:17.680\n you know drop the token and did the big air drop that was in last November so less less than a year\n\n85\n00:08:17.680 --> 00:08:23.439\n the protocols been around for longer and they had early users that got those tokens but this is\n\n86\n00:08:23.439 --> 00:08:29.759\n like a really big part of this the story to me they launched at a time when I think there are a\n\n87\n00:08:29.759 --> 00:08:36.320\n lot of perps traders that were looking for an alternative to to Binance are sorry to FTX in the\n\n88\n00:08:36.320 --> 00:08:43.600\n aftermath of FTX and what they're offering here is basically a centralized exchange sort of Binance\n\n89\n00:08:43.600 --> 00:08:50.240\n like experience but but on chain where you get the self-custody you still get still get that\n\n90\n00:08:50.240 --> 00:08:56.639\n performance but they paired that product with this incredible inception story which I think is\n\n91\n00:08:56.639 --> 00:09:02.879\n probably the the best story since you know Ethereum launched I would think and what they did was\n\n92\n00:09:02.879 --> 00:09:09.600\n they they dropped thirty thirty one percent of the token allocation to their early users that was\n\n93\n00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:16.080\n at like a three dollar you know hype price when they when they drop that token and it was about\n\n94\n00:09:16.080 --> 00:09:22.480\n 1.2 billion dollars of wealth creation that they they gave away to their users so they they created\n\n95\n00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:29.680\n they bought a lot of loyalty I would say right off right off the bat and they did this with zero\n\n96\n00:09:29.680 --> 00:09:35.200\n you know VCs no angel investors like they really it seems to me like you know they're trying to\n\n97\n00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:42.560\n solve for you know a great product and like a focus on users and and doing so building trust you\n\n98\n00:09:42.560 --> 00:09:48.560\n know with with their community and so I think they've done a really good job of this and this is\n\n99\n00:09:48.560 --> 00:09:53.520\n created I think a flywheel when you combine it with the product that is very interesting and we'll\n\n100\n00:09:53.520 --> 00:09:58.880\n get into sort of what's being built there and it's kind of growing into a layer one ecosystem now\n\n101\n00:09:58.880 --> 00:10:03.280\n but this you you really can't you really got to focus on this because it's created so much loyalty\n\n102\n00:10:03.280 --> 00:10:08.400\n then you have a really loud community on crypto twitter that are now evangelists for the product\n\n103\n00:10:08.480 --> 00:10:12.799\n and it just kind of kicks off an interesting flywheel with the way that they they launched the product\n\n104\n00:10:12.799 --> 00:10:17.439\n so you're saying this is the one maybe one of the best token inception stories as far as\n\n105\n00:10:17.439 --> 00:10:23.279\n quote unquote fair launch that we've seen in in a long time maybe since something like a theory\n\n106\n00:10:23.279 --> 00:10:29.279\n I mean you're saying because there's no VCs there's no angels there's like the focus is on users\n\n107\n00:10:29.279 --> 00:10:35.439\n and the the whales that bring liquidity to this platform and they got all of the token so there's\n\n108\n00:10:35.440 --> 00:10:41.360\n not that you know typical VC cell pressure you know the 12 to 24 month unlocks although I believe\n\n109\n00:10:41.360 --> 00:10:46.880\n that the hype founders in the hype team does have token unlocks is that correct correct yeah so they've\n\n110\n00:10:46.880 --> 00:10:55.120\n got almost 24% and that they're investing well some of their unlocks are starting in November so\n\n111\n00:10:55.120 --> 00:10:58.080\n their investing schedule starts some of those unlocks are going to start to leak out they're\n\n112\n00:10:58.080 --> 00:11:01.840\n starting to be some talk you know in the market are they going to sell are they going to jump on\n\n113\n00:11:01.840 --> 00:11:06.240\n the community I think they put some stuff out that they're going to limit the amount that their\n\n114\n00:11:06.240 --> 00:11:11.200\n team actually can sell but yeah I think this is very interesting because a lot of times when you're\n\n115\n00:11:11.200 --> 00:11:15.200\n you're studying a project you really have to pay attention to you know how might how many of the\n\n116\n00:11:15.200 --> 00:11:20.560\n tokens went to VCs what are those unlocks schedules look like we've seen we've seen a lot of charts\n\n117\n00:11:20.560 --> 00:11:25.600\n in crypto where after that year and especially if you're in a bear market when those unlocks come\n\n118\n00:11:26.560 --> 00:11:31.600\n you it's a tough time to be holding the token and so the you know in sort of eliminating all\n\n119\n00:11:31.600 --> 00:11:35.680\n that they're building a lot of trust with not only the users but also people that might want to\n\n120\n00:11:35.680 --> 00:11:41.200\n invest in this protocol in the Wild West of DeFi stability and innovation are everything which is\n\n121\n00:11:41.200 --> 00:11:46.320\n why you should check out Frax Finance the protocol revolutionizing stablecoins DeFi and Rolex the\n\n122\n00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:51.279\n core of Frax Finance is Frax USD which is backed by BlackRock's institutional middle fund Frax\n\n123\n00:11:51.279 --> 00:11:57.199\n designed Frax USD for besting class yields across DeFi T-bills and carry trade returns all in one\n\n124\n00:11:57.199 --> 00:12:01.679\n just head to Frax.com then stake it to earn some of the best 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perks and boosted rewards imagine a world where traditional finance meets the power of\n\n133\n00:12:42.080 --> 00:12:46.960\n blockchain seamlessly that's what mantle is pioneering with blockchain for banking a revolutionary\n\n134\n00:12:46.960 --> 00:12:51.440\n new category at the intersection of trad five and web three at the heart is you are the world's\n\n135\n00:12:51.440 --> 00:12:55.759\n first money out built fully on chain it gives you a Swiss iBand account blending fiat currencies\n\n136\n00:12:55.759 --> 00:12:59.920\n like the euro the Swiss franc the United States dollar or the reminbey with crypto all in one\n\n137\n00:12:59.920 --> 00:13:04.560\n place enjoy real world usability and blockchains trust and programmability transactions\n\n138\n00:13:04.560 --> 00:13:09.600\n post directly to the blockchain compatible with trad five rails impact with integrated DeFi futures\n\n139\n00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:14.080\n you are transforms mantle network into the ultimate platform for on chain financial services\n\n140\n00:13:14.080 --> 00:13:20.080\n unifying payments trading and assets like the mi4 the me's protocol and functions fbtc\n\n141\n00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:24.560\n backed by developer grants ecosystem incentives and top distribution through the you are at\n\n142\n00:13:24.560 --> 00:13:29.920\n reward stations and buy bit launch pool for mnt holders every economic activity in you are\n\n143\n00:13:29.920 --> 00:13:35.440\n drives value back to you embodying the entire stack and future growth of this super app ecosystem\n\n144\n00:13:35.440 --> 00:13:40.080\n follow mantle on x at mantle underscore official for the latest updates on blockchain for banking\n\n145\n00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:46.480\n that's x.com slash mantle underscore official okay so a nice clean cap table that's user focused\n\n146\n00:13:46.480 --> 00:13:51.600\n cleat clean launch for the token let's talk about the product itself so when i pull up hyper\n\n147\n00:13:51.600 --> 00:13:57.040\n liquid it looks like an exchange basically it looks like something i'd seen you know coinbase\n\n148\n00:13:57.040 --> 00:14:02.880\n or crack in or or finance or back to the day maybe an ftx right i see charts i see things\n\n149\n00:14:03.200 --> 00:14:08.879\n all crypto assets i can buy and sell i can see my portfolio it looks essentially like an exchange\n\n150\n00:14:08.879 --> 00:14:14.879\n now all of this is on chain and the product it seems like the central product is you can buy\n\n151\n00:14:14.879 --> 00:14:20.960\n spot i believe but it's perps right which is really bitmex and crypto pioneered a fantastic way\n\n152\n00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:27.519\n to kind of lever up on your positions as well and if you want to you know four x five x ten x long\n\n153\n00:14:27.519 --> 00:14:32.000\n you can do that on this platform it's probably cryptos most like strongest\n\n154\n00:14:32.559 --> 00:14:39.519\n um uh product that it's that it that it's built and they have laser focused on the perps market so\n\n155\n00:14:40.480 --> 00:14:47.039\n it's interesting to though because mic there've been many tries at creating on chain bitmex on chain\n\n156\n00:14:47.840 --> 00:14:54.639\n finance perps in the past and some have had levels of success i remember past cycle dy dx was\n\n157\n00:14:54.720 --> 00:15:01.600\n attracting a lot of the on chain perps liquidity it was still nowhere in size compared to an ftx or\n\n158\n00:15:01.600 --> 00:15:08.080\n a binance but um it was doing fairly well now this product from hyperliquid seems to be competing\n\n159\n00:15:08.080 --> 00:15:15.120\n with the big boys so i was looking last week and i think hyperliquid was like number two just\n\n160\n00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:22.080\n to binance binance was a little bit higher in terms of spot bitcoin volume on a particular day\n\n161\n00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:26.400\n so it's competing with all of the big centralized exchanges and the experience that you have you\n\n162\n00:15:26.400 --> 00:15:32.480\n connect to crypto wallet of course so you could use a rabbi or metamask or even a fan to my believe\n\n163\n00:15:32.480 --> 00:15:37.840\n but it feels like you're on a centralized exchange and you have centralized exchange levels of liquidity\n\n164\n00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:42.720\n so what accounts for the product success here i think i think that's it i think they solved this\n\n165\n00:15:42.720 --> 00:15:48.240\n you know sort of sex like experience with high throughput it's it's got a really nice ux it's\n\n166\n00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:52.560\n fairly easy you know you do have to bridge over so you know but it's fairly easy to get get in\n\n167\n00:15:52.560 --> 00:15:57.200\n there and i think that's really it there's they've they've they've given you the sex like\n\n168\n00:15:57.200 --> 00:16:03.200\n experience but also you have self-custody of the assets and that helps to build trust obviously in\n\n169\n00:16:03.200 --> 00:16:09.039\n the in the wake of ftx they've also just i think done a really good job of listing new product\n\n170\n00:16:09.519 --> 00:16:13.279\n relevant new tokens you know pretty quickly when they come out and so whenever\n\n171\n00:16:14.240 --> 00:16:19.199\n um people want to be trading the the new and kind of fresh asset that comes out they're getting\n\n172\n00:16:19.199 --> 00:16:24.159\n that up there they're capturing that market um they've got like an interesting referral system\n\n173\n00:16:24.159 --> 00:16:30.399\n as well so you now have like phantom and axiom uh users that can trade through them and they get\n\n174\n00:16:30.399 --> 00:16:34.720\n and what it's actually kind of an interesting business model where they're basically sending user\n\n175\n00:16:34.720 --> 00:16:40.240\n flow user liquidity to hyperliquid and then hyperliquid is actually kicking back a referral fee\n\n176\n00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:44.960\n to to these platforms which is very interesting model so you know you you kind of solve\n\n177\n00:16:45.759 --> 00:16:50.799\n for distribution through some of these larger wallets through some of these more attractive trading\n\n178\n00:16:50.799 --> 00:16:56.159\n terminals like like axiom on salana which is like one of the fastest growing apps on salana so i\n\n179\n00:16:56.159 --> 00:17:00.720\n think you know it's it's just seems really well thought out in terms of how they've approached the\n\n180\n00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:05.200\n market and now they have these integrations that's driving more liquidity more more users to the\n\n181\n00:17:05.200 --> 00:17:10.880\n platform as well and there are they just able to move faster than the the Binance for instance\n\n182\n00:17:10.880 --> 00:17:15.279\n like who are the big perps i guess centralize these changes is it is it primarily Binance at this\n\n183\n00:17:15.279 --> 00:17:19.680\n point and they're just able to move faster than them so you've got Binance you've got buy bit you've\n\n184\n00:17:19.680 --> 00:17:24.799\n got okay acts those are kind of like the three kings i would say of the perp market you do have\n\n185\n00:17:24.799 --> 00:17:31.759\n uh cme uh which has has futures trading now as well but yeah i think i think they are moving fast\n\n186\n00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:36.559\n they've got a really loyal loyal base i mean there's only 11 employees which which we can probably\n\n187\n00:17:36.559 --> 00:17:41.519\n talk about at some point so they're obviously a very talented team to build it to execute all this\n\n188\n00:17:42.079 --> 00:17:46.640\n and yeah i think i think they've got the flywheel and once you get the flywheel and you get the\n\n189\n00:17:46.640 --> 00:17:50.000\n when you when you have a users what's what's interesting about this approach and we'll get to\n\n190\n00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:54.720\n sort of where they're going with building out the ecosystem but when you start with a base of\n\n191\n00:17:54.720 --> 00:18:00.319\n really active users that's really really interesting because it attracts builders right builders are\n\n192\n00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:06.240\n attracted to users and liquidity and you know they have been able to bootstrap all that without\n\n193\n00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:12.480\n vcs without uh with this kind of pure inception story so it feels like they've got a really really\n\n194\n00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:18.639\n strong foundation to now build this out as well so okay so there is an ecosystem story then and we'll\n\n195\n00:18:18.639 --> 00:18:23.200\n get to that in a minute but before you mentioned um the founders and the team it's a small team\n\n196\n00:18:23.200 --> 00:18:27.439\n talented team so you sent me over this uh interview over the weekend i haven't had a chance to\n\n197\n00:18:27.440 --> 00:18:33.440\n fully get through it uh which with his uh jeff he's one of the the co-founders of hyper liquid\n\n198\n00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:38.000\n what what do you see when you see when when you think about the hyper liquid team what makes this\n\n199\n00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:43.920\n team special and how have they been able to execute like this yeah this is interesting i have to\n\n200\n00:18:43.920 --> 00:18:49.360\n say like after watching this this interview with with jeff i was getting more interested in the\n\n201\n00:18:49.360 --> 00:18:54.640\n project probably more bullish on the products myself just hearing his story but his you know he\n\n202\n00:18:54.640 --> 00:18:59.920\n is coming from a background uh from from quatt trading so he started off at Hudson actually i think\n\n203\n00:18:59.920 --> 00:19:05.200\n he was an engineer at google for a little bit then he went to Hudson River trading which is a large\n\n204\n00:19:05.920 --> 00:19:11.280\n wall street firm and i think it was there for like less than a year or so and then somehow ended\n\n205\n00:19:11.280 --> 00:19:19.440\n up you know playing around in defi you know in 2021 2020 and i think he just realized how inefficient\n\n206\n00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:25.200\n the the crypto markets were um developed some algorithms probably made some money you know trading\n\n207\n00:19:25.840 --> 00:19:31.759\n and and i think you actually like retired uh we went went did some travel and and then during\n\n208\n00:19:31.759 --> 00:19:36.640\n that experience realized that he wanted to build something much bigger and much more meaningful\n\n209\n00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:41.360\n and that's kind of where where hyper liquid came from so these guys you know understand markets\n\n210\n00:19:41.360 --> 00:19:45.680\n they understand trading they understand perps like that they're they're they're the right guys to\n\n211\n00:19:45.680 --> 00:19:51.039\n build this type of ecosystem i think and uh yeah i would recommend people you know check out just\n\n212\n00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:56.080\n whatever resources you can find on these guys because i think um that's that's always part of the\n\n213\n00:19:56.080 --> 00:20:01.120\n analysis whenever we're looking at at a project is who is actually behind this thing and what are\n\n214\n00:20:01.120 --> 00:20:06.160\n their motivations do they seem like mission driven type of people that are trying to build something\n\n215\n00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:11.680\n you know for the greater good uh of crypto and i think i think um you know i feel like that these\n\n216\n00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:18.160\n are the right people to build a project like this let's talk about the ecosystem so at first hyper\n\n217\n00:20:18.160 --> 00:20:23.840\n liquid was an app chain for this perps exchange and that's been very successful they've attracted a\n\n218\n00:20:23.840 --> 00:20:30.640\n ton of volume there uh you know like a massive amount of of size uh then more more recently they\n\n219\n00:20:30.640 --> 00:20:36.560\n actually launch your launch day general purpose you know call it maybe a layer one called the hyper\n\n220\n00:20:36.639 --> 00:20:43.119\n EVM hyper liquid sits on top of the hyper EVM at least i believe that's the case but the\n\n221\n00:20:43.119 --> 00:20:50.559\n hyper EVM is kind of a a general purpose EVM chain so other apps can come and uh essentially out\n\n222\n00:20:50.559 --> 00:20:55.759\n i think per maybe i'm using the right term here permissionlessly deploy you can see on defy llama\n\n223\n00:20:55.759 --> 00:21:00.720\n a number of these different apps uh pendals there for instance you know pendal and mortho these are\n\n224\n00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:06.160\n from you know other defy protocols um and you can see some of them are liquid staking some of\n\n225\n00:21:06.160 --> 00:21:12.000\n them are yield generating protocols there's an entire what we call like a defy economy that seems\n\n226\n00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:18.400\n to be springing up on top of hyper liquid this i knows this tweet from the ether dot five ventures\n\n227\n00:21:18.400 --> 00:21:25.519\n folks and they're saying we're going to just straight up back hyper liquid ecosystem projects we're\n\n228\n00:21:25.519 --> 00:21:30.879\n going to tackle you know credit collateral and yield like cdp type projects on top of hyper liquid\n\n229\n00:21:31.599 --> 00:21:36.799\n stake type liquidity front ends and and swaps and i think the premise behind this correct me if\n\n230\n00:21:36.799 --> 00:21:43.200\n i'm wrong is that hyper liquid has been able to create a primitive a crypto primitive a money\n\n231\n00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:48.639\n Lego if you will of liquidity and now we have all this liquidity apps can build on top of that\n\n232\n00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:55.759\n liquidity and do other defy finance types of things for its users and so they've opened that up\n\n233\n00:21:55.759 --> 00:22:02.000\n and that's what the hyper EVM is i should at it's got to be it's super performant very very scalable\n\n234\n00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:07.360\n we'll talk about the uh the centralization versus decentralization aspects a little bit later but\n\n235\n00:22:07.360 --> 00:22:14.800\n this is really like fast block times uh you know i i don't know how much in terms of throughput\n\n236\n00:22:14.799 --> 00:22:20.079\n transactions per second but far more performant than um the layer two's that that we generally see\n\n237\n00:22:20.079 --> 00:22:25.440\n including even the the highly performant ones like salana so talk about this ecosystem a bit more\n\n238\n00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:32.399\n yeah so what's really interesting to me about this is like most L ones you know start out most of them\n\n239\n00:22:32.399 --> 00:22:37.839\n have you know that to raise capital and then they have to use the sort of bc money to find ways to\n\n240\n00:22:37.839 --> 00:22:43.359\n incentivize other builders to come in to to get liquidity which then attracts more builders they\n\n241\n00:22:43.360 --> 00:22:49.120\n don't start with an app they don't start with an app yeah they started with a great product um and\n\n242\n00:22:49.120 --> 00:22:55.600\n that's essentially the option of what of what the perp stacks deck is and that's really interesting\n\n243\n00:22:55.600 --> 00:23:01.440\n to me because they've done that all organically now they have users now they have liquidity and so\n\n244\n00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:07.200\n now the flywheel of attracting other builder builders to this ecosystem has has kicked off with them\n\n245\n00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:14.080\n launching the hyper EVM and the way i sort of think about this is like if you just sort of analyze\n\n246\n00:23:14.080 --> 00:23:19.680\n hyper liquid from the app chain perspective it's quite impressive uh the amount of fees are doing\n\n247\n00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:24.160\n the way that they you know brought this to market the the sort of trust and loyalty that they've\n\n248\n00:23:24.160 --> 00:23:29.360\n already established in the market in a short period of time and now you sort of open this up and\n\n249\n00:23:29.360 --> 00:23:35.120\n you've got this EVM and out of the entire you know ethereum ecosystem everybody that has a EVM\n\n250\n00:23:35.120 --> 00:23:41.600\n based wallet can now start to access these apps um and you're going to see i think more more liquidity\n\n251\n00:23:41.600 --> 00:23:47.600\n come in here more users and uh it was interesting to me even as we published a report on hype last week\n\n252\n00:23:47.600 --> 00:23:51.760\n and had people reaching out to me that are building stuff on hype and it was just interesting to see\n\n253\n00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:58.720\n you know the energy i think that's that's forming around around this ecosystem um so this now\n\n254\n00:23:58.720 --> 00:24:04.720\n becomes a much bigger story of like okay should should hyper liquid be should we think about\n\n255\n00:24:04.720 --> 00:24:11.120\n hyper liquid's future value more relative to like a large like l want right is that actually the game\n\n256\n00:24:11.120 --> 00:24:15.920\n that they're playing and it's not really that they're competing with you know dy dx and you know\n\n257\n00:24:15.920 --> 00:24:21.600\n Jupiter perps and and drift but maybe they're actually trying to build out something much much bigger\n\n258\n00:24:21.600 --> 00:24:27.360\n here um so i i think this is this is quite interesting and the way that they've approached it is\n\n259\n00:24:27.360 --> 00:24:31.200\n sort of that path dependence of doing it with users and liquidity first instead of\n\n260\n00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:36.000\n with bcs is very interesting yeah and on this ecosystem question it is the case that we've seen\n\n261\n00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:41.760\n chains like this before the bnb chain maybe comes to mind it's kind of a Binance type of chain\n\n262\n00:24:41.760 --> 00:24:48.720\n but it's its own you know less restricted kind of uh more open sandbox for defi portal calls to\n\n263\n00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:53.680\n to come in that's kind of what hyper liquid is doing here although hyper liquid is going even\n\n264\n00:24:53.680 --> 00:24:59.279\n further in putting all of their liquidity on chain whereas Binance has central order books um so\n\n265\n00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:05.200\n that's an interesting analog here but when we start doing layer one comparables it does kind of big\n\n266\n00:25:05.200 --> 00:25:11.360\n the question of okay what are the property rights of the layer one in questions of hyper ledger\n\n267\n00:25:11.360 --> 00:25:17.759\n I sorry hyper liquid is a layer one then like there's questions about how decentralized is it\n\n268\n00:25:17.759 --> 00:25:22.799\n and when I think of the question of decentralization I do think of it in terms of less like are you\n\n269\n00:25:23.680 --> 00:25:28.240\n you know following this particular protocol or not and and more of what are the the rights\n\n270\n00:25:28.240 --> 00:25:33.680\n and abilities of users particularly around this question of of stealing censorship and freezing\n\n271\n00:25:33.680 --> 00:25:38.720\n okay so the SCF if you will and so the question is and I was asking this question over the weekend\n\n272\n00:25:38.720 --> 00:25:44.799\n if hyper liquid goes down can users withdraw their funds in a layer two we know how that would work\n\n273\n00:25:44.799 --> 00:25:51.119\n as long as the theorem secures your kind of property rights if uh arbitrum or optimism or\n\n274\n00:25:51.120 --> 00:25:56.880\n base were to turn evil as a user you have the abilities kind of withdraw your assets back to a\n\n275\n00:25:56.880 --> 00:26:02.320\n theorem back to the layer one um unclear what happens in hyper liquid in this case but they have\n\n276\n00:26:02.320 --> 00:26:07.600\n their own validator set and also if hyper liquid turned evil or maybe the the government shut them\n\n277\n00:26:07.600 --> 00:26:14.240\n down start to seize their like validators could they steal user funds and these are pretty relevant\n\n278\n00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:19.360\n questions I think when you're starting in the layer one game so what have you uncovered about\n\n279\n00:26:19.360 --> 00:26:24.480\n these questions in the level of decentralization that exists in hyper liquid today yeah so I\n\n280\n00:26:24.480 --> 00:26:28.960\n think there's there's a few ways to think about you know decentralization and all those questions\n\n281\n00:26:28.960 --> 00:26:35.360\n that you just uh posed right which are extremely relevant for crypto users um I think the way that\n\n282\n00:26:35.360 --> 00:26:40.400\n I think of this is you know they started uh a little less than a little less than a year ago\n\n283\n00:26:40.960 --> 00:26:46.400\n and they've got about 24 validators today so that is actually we just we're talking we just\n\n284\n00:26:46.400 --> 00:26:52.960\n mentioned binats that's kind of like similar to what binats you know chain chain has um so pretty\n\n285\n00:26:52.960 --> 00:26:58.080\n centralized I would say like you know almost more like a permissioned block chain at this point\n\n286\n00:26:58.080 --> 00:27:03.440\n because a lot of those validators are being permissioned in it's not fully uh open source and\n\n287\n00:27:03.440 --> 00:27:09.120\n permissionless just yet I believe that they're moving in in that direction and and there's reasons why\n\n288\n00:27:09.120 --> 00:27:14.320\n they sort of want to keep that close uh right now and the early days of the protocol so I think\n\n289\n00:27:14.319 --> 00:27:20.399\n from that perspective if those validators you know like you said tried to collude or you know\n\n290\n00:27:20.399 --> 00:27:25.839\n turned evil um you know I think users are trusting that they're not going to do that and that\n\n291\n00:27:25.839 --> 00:27:29.599\n you know that would kill their entire project that they're building and maybe their incentives\n\n292\n00:27:29.599 --> 00:27:34.399\n are aligned up to do something like that um but because of the early stage of it you do have you\n\n293\n00:27:34.399 --> 00:27:40.799\n know not a ton of validators which um diminishes the the decentralization of the project and the\n\n294\n00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:47.680\n security uh of the project so that's that's number one uh number two is because it's its own\n\n295\n00:27:47.680 --> 00:27:53.519\n you know layer one ecosystem to get your assets over there to to use a protocol um you need to\n\n296\n00:27:53.519 --> 00:27:59.279\n bridge in uh to do so um there's a few different bridges in ways to get in there most of that is\n\n297\n00:27:59.279 --> 00:28:06.000\n coming through arbitrum uh ethereum layer two and so um what's happening there is you know users are\n\n298\n00:28:06.079 --> 00:28:11.839\n essentially yeah depositing into the arbitrum bridge and then there's like an accounting mechanism\n\n299\n00:28:11.839 --> 00:28:15.440\n on the other side of that for hyperlip good where they're there essentially essentially minting\n\n300\n00:28:15.440 --> 00:28:20.720\n you a version of that in their chain and then keeping all the accounting on the hyperlip with ledger\n\n301\n00:28:20.720 --> 00:28:26.960\n from there um and so yes you are trusting that bridge right if something happened with that bridge\n\n302\n00:28:26.960 --> 00:28:32.240\n or that bridge was hacked um similar to you know hacks that we've seen at other bridges especially\n\n303\n00:28:32.720 --> 00:28:38.000\n you know in the kind of 21 cycle we saw a lot of this i think bridging has become much more secure\n\n304\n00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:43.519\n in this cycle but if you did have something um then user funds are potentially at loss you know via\n\n305\n00:28:43.519 --> 00:28:47.680\n that via that bridge i think those are the two things um that i would think of and\n\n306\n00:28:48.640 --> 00:28:55.519\n for for me like it's really difficult as an l1 to just sort of come to market and have\n\n307\n00:28:55.519 --> 00:28:58.880\n you know like a million validators like some of these like ethereum does and some of these other\n\n308\n00:28:58.880 --> 00:29:05.200\n more mature layer one ecosystem so there is a process to decentralization i think they're it with\n\n309\n00:29:05.200 --> 00:29:12.720\n that comes some trust in the early days for for users so yeah that makes sense i mean so the\n\n310\n00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:18.080\n i guess the long and short of it is right now those validators can steal sensor frees um there's\n\n311\n00:29:18.080 --> 00:29:24.880\n some level of permissioning you know some of it may not be the hyperlip liquid team it could be\n\n312\n00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:30.800\n somewhat um distributed and somewhat to centralize so you have the validators at play there you also\n\n313\n00:29:30.800 --> 00:29:36.160\n have this bridge risk as well and you also have underlying arbitrum risk what's kind of interesting\n\n314\n00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:41.120\n is um you know i used to say about centralized exchanges like you should use centralized exchanges\n\n315\n00:29:41.120 --> 00:29:46.640\n like a public bathroom right get in do your business and then get out um there's a difference between\n\n316\n00:29:46.720 --> 00:29:54.400\n getting into hyperliquid and doing some trading uh and then getting out and leaving your funds\n\n317\n00:29:54.400 --> 00:30:01.120\n on hyperliquid for a long period of time like months uh and even years and so you know this is\n\n318\n00:30:01.120 --> 00:30:04.880\n you and i've talked about this before the difference between kind of like some fast defy type\n\n319\n00:30:04.880 --> 00:30:11.040\n use cases and slow defy use cases where the slow defy use cases are kind of like you know vaulting\n\n320\n00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:16.799\n and lending and borrowing and store of value types of use cases where you just want to keep your assets\n\n321\n00:30:16.799 --> 00:30:22.960\n in one place for like months and years um i don't know that hyperliquid is quite ready for those\n\n322\n00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:28.480\n types of use cases if that makes sense like you know how many months or years are you going to\n\n323\n00:30:28.480 --> 00:30:34.799\n store your funds on some perlite on something like hyperliquid whereas for fast defy um it's\n\n324\n00:30:34.799 --> 00:30:40.480\n kind of great and is it that much more risky than a centralized exchange like probably not probably\n\n325\n00:30:40.559 --> 00:30:46.319\n in some ways actually less risky at least you don't have the sandbank been freed FTX style of risk\n\n326\n00:30:46.319 --> 00:30:51.680\n because it's all open you can see all of the assets on chain and there's not really a way for\n\n327\n00:30:51.680 --> 00:30:56.799\n hyperliquid to kind of like cook the books uh you take some of the assets and like you actually\n\n328\n00:30:56.799 --> 00:31:02.960\n use them for a separate side pocket hedge fund the way sandbank been freed was doing so there are\n\n329\n00:31:02.960 --> 00:31:08.640\n some benefits here it's just not quite like it's not the property rights of a layer one which is\n\n330\n00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:13.920\n the way i see this i don't know if you agree with this is um i kind of see this as more competitive\n\n331\n00:31:13.920 --> 00:31:22.320\n to maybe a uh FTX if it was still around or a Binance or a Coinbase or a Kraken or some of these\n\n332\n00:31:22.320 --> 00:31:27.840\n centralized uh you know perfect exchanges because it's kind of a hybrid it's not quite a centralized\n\n333\n00:31:27.840 --> 00:31:34.160\n exchange it's not quite defy it's somewhere in the middle i see it less of a threat to like\n\n334\n00:31:34.240 --> 00:31:39.440\n a Bitcoin for instance or an Ethereum or even at some level a salon although maybe salon\n\n335\n00:31:39.440 --> 00:31:44.320\n and hyperliquid start to brush up against each other but just because property rights are so key\n\n336\n00:31:44.320 --> 00:31:50.640\n for that slow defy use case in the store of value use case and you know you don't have those\n\n337\n00:31:50.640 --> 00:31:56.640\n certainties here it's not open source for instance so even as a validator you're running code that\n\n338\n00:31:56.640 --> 00:32:01.680\n you don't have open source access to actually see so it's not quite in the same ballgame with\n\n339\n00:32:01.680 --> 00:32:06.480\n respectic you know comparable other layer ones what do you think about that yeah i think that's right\n\n340\n00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:10.160\n i think it's somewhere in the middle right now it's kind of got the performance of these more\n\n341\n00:32:10.160 --> 00:32:15.920\n centralized uh counter parts and it's trying to move in this direction where it can sort of be seen\n\n342\n00:32:15.920 --> 00:32:20.400\n as something that's more decentralized that gives you those property rights that crypto users\n\n343\n00:32:20.960 --> 00:32:26.880\n really value and you know to your point on like you know sort of the slow kind of store of value\n\n344\n00:32:26.880 --> 00:32:32.000\n defy use cases like what's kind of interesting you know when you kind of zoom out and just look\n\n345\n00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:37.040\n at what's starting to play out in terms of where all the assets sit you know where the velocity\n\n346\n00:32:37.040 --> 00:32:41.840\n of assets is happening we're seeing like just some really interesting stuff which just like it looks\n\n347\n00:32:41.840 --> 00:32:48.480\n like most of the stuff wants to be traded in places like hyperliquid in places like salon but\n\n348\n00:32:48.480 --> 00:32:53.840\n actually most of the assets sit on ethereum and so it's kind of an interesting thing where\n\n349\n00:32:54.320 --> 00:33:01.280\n um you you know you have these kind of fast sort of online casino type environments and then you\n\n350\n00:33:01.280 --> 00:33:06.160\n have which is what we're seeing with hyperliquid and maybe more salana and then you have more of the\n\n351\n00:33:06.160 --> 00:33:12.160\n wall street type you know use cases that are happening on ethereum and ethereum has 100% uptime\n\n352\n00:33:12.160 --> 00:33:18.800\n it's trusted it's decentralized you have those those property rights and those user guarantees even\n\n353\n00:33:18.800 --> 00:33:22.880\n on l2 where you're going to withdraw assets so it's kind of interesting just sort of zooming out\n\n354\n00:33:22.880 --> 00:33:26.880\n thinking about how crypto ecosystem is starting to play out it looks like ethereum is the home\n\n355\n00:33:27.760 --> 00:33:33.200\n to keep your assets and these other places are sort of like little you know arms where people can\n\n356\n00:33:33.200 --> 00:33:37.040\n go and do other things I think it's interesting I mean because at some level it is sort of a win\n\n357\n00:33:37.040 --> 00:33:41.760\n for the ethereum ecosystem because this is all EVM it's kind of building that network effect and\n\n358\n00:33:41.760 --> 00:33:46.720\n platform effect uh at the same time there's a little there's an element of like well why didn't they\n\n359\n00:33:46.720 --> 00:33:52.160\n do this as a layer two I mean right if the layer two strategy worked so well how come hyperliquid\n\n360\n00:33:52.160 --> 00:33:57.600\n actually decided not to deploy this as a layer two and I think when I've listened to conversations\n\n361\n00:33:57.600 --> 00:34:02.480\n with Jeff and some of the other co-founders they say the reason is they couldn't get the performance\n\n362\n00:34:02.480 --> 00:34:07.519\n in all of the customized ability that allow them to produce a product essentially this good\n\n363\n00:34:07.519 --> 00:34:12.880\n for purpose trading so maybe at some point in the future they become a layer two maybe not maybe\n\n364\n00:34:12.880 --> 00:34:18.480\n the L1 thing is is going for them but yeah I um yeah I agree there's there's kind of like the slow\n\n365\n00:34:18.480 --> 00:34:23.199\n defy type store value use cases then it does seem like there's a whole bunch of other things\n\n366\n00:34:23.199 --> 00:34:29.199\n that are happening on centralized exchanges and uh layer two layer one order books and that kind of\n\n367\n00:34:29.199 --> 00:34:36.960\n thing um another element of this that I was wondering which is is kind of like the uh the AML KYC\n\n368\n00:34:36.960 --> 00:34:43.280\n Bank secrecy act type of risk um and it's just like do you remember Mike that uh Arthur Hayes\n\n369\n00:34:44.240 --> 00:34:50.560\n he spent six months on health on house arrest for not crossing uh all of the T's and dotting\n\n370\n00:34:50.560 --> 00:34:57.120\n his eyes with respect to AML KYC and the US government came after him CZ spent a year in jail\n\n371\n00:34:57.120 --> 00:35:02.480\n over this type of thing okay and hyperliquid is not doing that to my knowledge today they're doing\n\n372\n00:35:02.480 --> 00:35:07.920\n that for the validators but they're not doing that for users and it seems like because of the\n\n373\n00:35:07.920 --> 00:35:13.680\n Trump administration things have opened up I don't think that there's going to be prosecution\n\n374\n00:35:13.680 --> 00:35:19.760\n during the Trump regime of something like hyperliquid but that is sort of a market risk that lingers\n\n375\n00:35:19.760 --> 00:35:25.519\n at least in my mind out there and I guess hyperliquid strategy is just like use the time we have to\n\n376\n00:35:25.519 --> 00:35:30.480\n become as big as possible kick that can down the road and worry about it later once we're big it's\n\n377\n00:35:30.480 --> 00:35:34.960\n almost like the tether strategy here it's kind of what Paulo and tether did right which is just\n\n378\n00:35:34.960 --> 00:35:39.440\n they were in this like weird gray zone for a while and now look at them they have the genius act\n\n379\n00:35:39.440 --> 00:35:45.760\n and he's at the the signing of of the genius bill himself and tether is now completely legitimized\n\n380\n00:35:45.760 --> 00:35:50.559\n and that could happen with hyperliquid but they have to move fast during this time of uh open\n\n381\n00:35:50.559 --> 00:35:56.480\n market because there's some great area I feel like with the AML KYC question yeah no that's uh\n\n382\n00:35:56.480 --> 00:36:02.079\n you know interesting observation uh as well and yeah I think you know they're they're doing KYC\n\n383\n00:36:02.159 --> 00:36:08.319\n for the for the validators they have you know geofanced the you know the perps decks and just\n\n384\n00:36:08.319 --> 00:36:15.440\n accessing that um so you need a VPN to to get in there um that did not say that's next or finance\n\n385\n00:36:15.440 --> 00:36:21.360\n oh really okay yeah okay interesting um so yeah there's definitely some some risk there and I think\n\n386\n00:36:21.360 --> 00:36:26.799\n I think you're right that's probably is the strategy of just sort of let's get this thing to scale\n\n387\n00:36:26.800 --> 00:36:32.960\n and be sort of like big too big to fail or too big to shut down um and and maybe that's that's\n\n388\n00:36:32.960 --> 00:36:37.440\n the strategy but certainly another um you know element of risk that people should consider here\n\n389\n00:36:38.320 --> 00:36:43.840\n let's talk about um how big this is right now so open interest this is a metric that's important\n\n390\n00:36:43.840 --> 00:36:47.840\n for these types of exchanges what what are you seeing on some of these fundamentals metrics\n\n391\n00:36:47.840 --> 00:36:53.120\n like open interest yeah you know just trying to you know get a sense for where they sit and where\n\n392\n00:36:53.119 --> 00:36:59.199\n they compare to you know some of these other more centralized counterparts finance by bit okay\n\n393\n00:36:59.199 --> 00:37:04.559\n acts you know CME in terms of open interest like they they've got about I think there's like about\n\n394\n00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:12.400\n 13 billion or so currently and that represents roughly 10% of all these you know the combined you\n\n395\n00:37:12.400 --> 00:37:18.559\n know centralized players including CME um so that's that's pretty interesting in their you know\n\n396\n00:37:18.799 --> 00:37:23.920\n I think the people think of them as sort of their competition is the decentralized you know\n\n397\n00:37:23.920 --> 00:37:32.400\n counterparts which is more of the Jupiter perps dy dx drift gmx um they are you know you know far\n\n398\n00:37:32.400 --> 00:37:38.480\n in a way much much higher from from those protocols I think doing about 10x the volume of them combined\n\n399\n00:37:39.039 --> 00:37:44.159\n and so when you think about their their share of the market they're already to me they've already\n\n400\n00:37:44.159 --> 00:37:50.799\n won the sort of decentralized perps game uh maybe too early to test to say that but they have\n\n401\n00:37:50.799 --> 00:37:56.079\n such a big lead in so much momentum right now it feels like it's moving in that direction and the\n\n402\n00:37:56.079 --> 00:38:01.759\n competition is you know by bynans and bybit and these more you know centralized players there is\n\n403\n00:38:01.759 --> 00:38:06.319\n you know Robinhood is is planning to launch this in the US soon I believe Coinbase just launched\n\n404\n00:38:06.319 --> 00:38:11.039\n launch perps as well so there's there's more competition coming as well okay and you you talked\n\n405\n00:38:11.039 --> 00:38:16.639\n about the uh the active users and the revenue per user just uh extremely impressive here yeah\n\n406\n00:38:17.679 --> 00:38:22.960\n very highly highly active highly engaged users I think is sort of the I think what what the take\n\n407\n00:38:22.960 --> 00:38:28.480\n away with this is just the stickiness of the product and it feels to be like if you're generating\n\n408\n00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:33.119\n that much value of your users like they're not trading anywhere else they're just trading they're\n\n409\n00:38:33.119 --> 00:38:39.440\n trading on hyper liquid okay so volume competitive with the big boys and seeing that from a open\n\n410\n00:38:39.440 --> 00:38:44.159\n interest perspective from just like the raw volume perspective now let's talk about one of the\n\n411\n00:38:44.159 --> 00:38:49.360\n most exciting elements of this which is the crypto native token that's associated with this and\n\n412\n00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:58.720\n I feel like as as token investors we are thirsty for good token economics particularly on the\n\n413\n00:38:58.720 --> 00:39:05.360\n revenue side of things and we talked about earlier how much revenue 3.5 million per day was being\n\n414\n00:39:05.360 --> 00:39:12.160\n generated by hyper liquid the story here I think Mike is that this value is actually accruing\n\n415\n00:39:12.160 --> 00:39:17.280\n to token holders we already talked about the fair launch and the distribution of this token can you\n\n416\n00:39:17.280 --> 00:39:23.120\n talk a little bit about the the buyback program that they have the burn program that they have and how\n\n417\n00:39:23.120 --> 00:39:29.519\n token holders are actually receiving this revenue in some form of value yeah and I think this this\n\n418\n00:39:29.519 --> 00:39:33.760\n is kind of coming back to what we were mentioning at the beginning and just how they're building trust\n\n419\n00:39:33.840 --> 00:39:39.360\n with not only the user base but now also with investors and people that are looking at maybe you\n\n420\n00:39:39.360 --> 00:39:44.480\n know buying the the hype token what's what's pretty interesting is not only are they you know printing\n\n421\n00:39:44.480 --> 00:39:51.920\n that cash they're using about 95% of it to go out and buy the hype token on the open market those\n\n422\n00:39:51.920 --> 00:39:58.560\n are not burned token so it's not that it's not being you know completely removed from the supply it\n\n423\n00:39:58.559 --> 00:40:03.440\n is being held by them in their their treasury so we don't know exactly you know what the plan is\n\n424\n00:40:03.440 --> 00:40:09.199\n for that but for now they're those those are tokens that are coming off the market and you know\n\n425\n00:40:09.199 --> 00:40:17.039\n they did about 92 million dollars of fees in July and they burnt they they bought back 90 million\n\n426\n00:40:17.039 --> 00:40:23.519\n of hype tokens so they are you know just out there there that's a constant bid in the market so not\n\n427\n00:40:23.519 --> 00:40:29.440\n only do they not have the VCs you know dumping potentially when when unlocks come in their\n\n428\n00:40:29.440 --> 00:40:35.440\n besting ends they're actually out there putting a bid in a floor you know on on the token as well\n\n429\n00:40:35.440 --> 00:40:40.960\n which is very interesting so this is a way that some of that revenue actually translates back at\n\n430\n00:40:40.960 --> 00:40:47.519\n least on paper to to token holders and reduce supply so I guess this is very similar to in the\n\n431\n00:40:47.519 --> 00:40:53.840\n equities world a share buyback some sort which is a very common you know investor friendly way\n\n432\n00:40:53.840 --> 00:41:00.239\n to actually distribute the gains that come from generally profits for equities types of companies\n\n433\n00:41:00.239 --> 00:41:06.079\n and this is not profits this is actually top line revenue right you're you're saying is a 90%\n\n434\n00:41:06.079 --> 00:41:11.599\n of top line revenue right now okay and that's going back to it essentially token buybacks right\n\n435\n00:41:11.599 --> 00:41:16.159\n going back to the treasury so the company balance sheet has it and I guess as a token holder\n\n436\n00:41:16.159 --> 00:41:21.599\n there's some sort of implication that you have some rights to that balance sheet it's not a legal\n\n437\n00:41:22.399 --> 00:41:26.719\n implication in the way that that equities would be but I think token holders are generally assuming\n\n438\n00:41:26.719 --> 00:41:34.399\n that they have rights some sort of distribution rights to the the treasury of of hyper liquid and so\n\n439\n00:41:34.399 --> 00:41:39.839\n that's how they're accruing this value yeah I think if you're a high holder like the way to think\n\n440\n00:41:39.840 --> 00:41:46.559\n about that is you know your your share of sort of the outstanding supply a circling supply of hype\n\n441\n00:41:47.120 --> 00:41:54.000\n is increasing right every time they go out and buy tokens on the open market you know\n\n442\n00:41:54.640 --> 00:41:58.880\n again they're not burning those tokens but this is very similar to how you would see like share\n\n443\n00:41:58.880 --> 00:42:05.519\n buybacks removing removing from removing shares from the circulating supply and then anybody who's\n\n444\n00:42:05.519 --> 00:42:11.759\n who holds those shares their their ownership is actually increasing relative so I think that's\n\n445\n00:42:11.759 --> 00:42:17.039\n the takeaway you don't have the legal rights you have as a shareholder but your you know relative\n\n446\n00:42:17.039 --> 00:42:22.559\n you know percentage ownership of the protocol is increasing when they're removing supply from the\n\n447\n00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:28.000\n market like that which I guess we should say is is better than what 99% of all tokens that exist out\n\n448\n00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:34.559\n there yes right just like revenue distribution here right it's yeah they have a fee switch that's\n\n449\n00:42:34.559 --> 00:42:41.199\n on they've a fee switch that's on and you know we've seen just you know a lot of pushback I think just\n\n450\n00:42:41.199 --> 00:42:45.280\n kind of back to the VCs we saw like meme coins coming out with lots of narratives around you know\n\n451\n00:42:45.280 --> 00:42:49.840\n no VCs and all this you know I think they're just combining that now with this you know this\n\n452\n00:42:49.840 --> 00:42:54.239\n really nice mechanism where there's like this automatic you know buyback of these tokens and\n\n453\n00:42:55.120 --> 00:43:01.840\n from from like a you know investor underwriting perspective like it introduces new ways to try\n\n454\n00:43:01.840 --> 00:43:07.600\n to understand you know what's going on and how to value the protocol like if you just sort of took\n\n455\n00:43:07.600 --> 00:43:14.880\n the annualized you know tokens that they bought back over the last year it comes out to like a 4.3\n\n456\n00:43:14.880 --> 00:43:20.800\n percent you know annualized buyback yield I know people are throwing out you know lots of\n\n457\n00:43:20.800 --> 00:43:24.960\n different terminologies around the yield yeah that's not actual yield that's being paid to you but\n\n458\n00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:30.560\n it's sort of like accruing into your ownership of the protocol in some way are there any like\n\n459\n00:43:30.560 --> 00:43:35.120\n guarantees as to how much they're going to buy back so is there any way to kind of model out\n\n460\n00:43:35.120 --> 00:43:40.320\n for guidance or do you just see after the fact I remember there was a time with the Binance chain\n\n461\n00:43:40.320 --> 00:43:47.840\n as it was called at the time 2020 2021 was like something like 25% of all Binance profits will be\n\n462\n00:43:47.840 --> 00:43:54.000\n would be used to buy back the the BNB token right so but that was I'm not sure actually I haven't\n\n463\n00:43:54.000 --> 00:43:59.360\n you know been back in the BNB chain to see if that that program is still in effect but it was\n\n464\n00:43:59.360 --> 00:44:04.079\n basically management guidance and arbitrarily coming up with a number and you know they can the\n\n465\n00:44:04.079 --> 00:44:08.640\n subject to revision in the futures at the same with with hyper liquid like you never know how much\n\n466\n00:44:08.640 --> 00:44:13.920\n they're going to buy back it's not an algorithmic thing it's kind of management discretion I think so\n\n467\n00:44:13.920 --> 00:44:19.119\n we weren't able to find any like documentation that they were where they were explicitly putting\n\n468\n00:44:19.119 --> 00:44:23.039\n that out there and it probably doesn't make sense for them to do that at this stage I think\n\n469\n00:44:23.039 --> 00:44:28.639\n there may come a time where they decide that they want to actually take some of those those fees\n\n470\n00:44:28.639 --> 00:44:34.559\n and invest in you know maybe there's maybe they want to hire more staff or just invest into their\n\n471\n00:44:34.559 --> 00:44:40.800\n operations and they may need that those funds at some point most startups you know are not you know\n\n472\n00:44:40.880 --> 00:44:46.960\n buying back their tokens less than a year after launching most of that are using any fees that they\n\n473\n00:44:46.960 --> 00:44:51.280\n can get from revenue and trying to drive that back into the business so that they can grow so this\n\n474\n00:44:51.280 --> 00:44:57.360\n is like an incredibly unique situation where they have the resources to grow this thing and they\n\n475\n00:44:57.360 --> 00:45:03.039\n don't need to take their revenues to and reinvest into the protocol right now so one thing that I\n\n476\n00:45:03.039 --> 00:45:08.320\n find is interesting when we're looking at these these assets and from a supply perspective is\n\n477\n00:45:08.320 --> 00:45:14.080\n the two sort of metrics we typically use are like fully diluted valuation which is all possible\n\n478\n00:45:14.880 --> 00:45:20.559\n tokens that are you know like mintable multiplied by the price right so you get your fully\n\n479\n00:45:20.559 --> 00:45:25.519\n diluted valuation that's this is really important when you're looking at other layer ones like\n\n480\n00:45:25.519 --> 00:45:29.920\n something like Ethereum or slana or or or Bitcoin it's like yeah important for that and then\n\n481\n00:45:29.920 --> 00:45:35.760\n there's market cap which is basically the tokens that are available not not locked up available\n\n482\n00:45:35.760 --> 00:45:40.400\n as flow multiplied by the price right and that gives you a sense of y'all okay how much is liquid\n\n483\n00:45:40.400 --> 00:45:47.280\n at this point in time but but these two numbers aren't I feel like a precise enough to actually\n\n484\n00:45:47.280 --> 00:45:53.200\n map on to what's going on in some of these tokens and maybe in particular something like hyper liquid\n\n485\n00:45:54.080 --> 00:46:00.160\n and I was reading an Artemis post that you just basically outlines another metric that we should\n\n486\n00:46:00.159 --> 00:46:07.519\n consider using that's using the traditional equities world that's not you know the total\n\n487\n00:46:08.159 --> 00:46:13.199\n fully diluted valuation and the market cap but it's basically outstanding shares we're outstanding\n\n488\n00:46:13.199 --> 00:46:19.920\n tokens you might call it outstanding supply in the crypto world which excludes everything that\n\n489\n00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:25.839\n would be owned by the hype foundation right so all the buyback tokens that they have excludes\n\n490\n00:46:26.480 --> 00:46:32.079\n but it does include the invested team balances and if you look at the hype supply you know and\n\n491\n00:46:32.079 --> 00:46:41.039\n you subtract all of the tokens that basically hype foundation owns you get a lower supply versus\n\n492\n00:46:41.039 --> 00:46:48.240\n you know the you know a fully diluted valuation and yeah so what do you think about using that\n\n493\n00:46:48.240 --> 00:46:55.280\n metric to or that that number for supply rather than some of the ones we we typically use I like\n\n494\n00:46:55.280 --> 00:47:00.480\n this framework that Artemis put out I think it makes sense and and it kind of like just raises you\n\n495\n00:47:00.480 --> 00:47:05.760\n know the question of I think every asset that you're analyzing in crypto all they all have different\n\n496\n00:47:05.760 --> 00:47:10.640\n token economic schemes they have different token allocations some do buybacks some don't so there\n\n497\n00:47:10.640 --> 00:47:16.320\n I think this is like every every asset needs to be analyzed sort of on its own but when you're\n\n498\n00:47:16.320 --> 00:47:21.920\n looking at something like hype I think this is particularly useful because of these buybacks you\n\n499\n00:47:22.079 --> 00:47:28.400\n need to factor that in somehow so so just taking the the amount of you know circulating supply\n\n500\n00:47:28.400 --> 00:47:32.800\n that's in the market right now we know that they are you know out in the market buying that back so\n\n501\n00:47:32.800 --> 00:47:38.720\n it makes sense to to pull that out and then of course you know the team is going to be you know\n\n502\n00:47:38.720 --> 00:47:43.280\n their besting schedules are coming up I believe those unlocks start in November and so you know\n\n503\n00:47:43.280 --> 00:47:48.079\n that should be factored it I think on the other side of it as well so. Ethereum's layer 2 universe\n\n504\n00:47:48.079 --> 00:47:52.079\n is exploding with choices but if you're looking for the best place to park and move your tokens\n\n505\n00:47:52.079 --> 00:47:57.440\n make your next stop unichain first liquidity unichain hosts the most liquid uniswap v4 deployment\n\n506\n00:47:57.440 --> 00:48:02.559\n on any layer 2 giving you deeper pools for flagship pairs like eth usdc more liquidity means\n\n507\n00:48:02.559 --> 00:48:07.440\n better prices less slippage and smoother swaps exactly what traders crave the numbers back it up\n\n508\n00:48:07.440 --> 00:48:13.039\n unichain leads all layer 2s in total value locked for uniswap v4 and it's not just a deep it's fast\n\n509\n00:48:13.039 --> 00:48:17.119\n and fully transparent purpose built to be the home base for defy and cross chain liquidity when\n\n510\n00:48:17.119 --> 00:48:22.559\n it comes to cost unichain is a no-brainer transaction fees come in about 95% cheaper than Ethereum\n\n511\n00:48:22.559 --> 00:48:27.359\n maintenance slashing the price of creating or accessing liquidity want to stay in the loop on unichain\n\n512\n00:48:27.359 --> 00:48:32.880\n visit unichain.org or follow at unichain on x for all the updates dgen started as a tightnic\n\n513\n00:48:32.880 --> 00:48:37.839\n community on farkcaster and organically grew into one of the top meme coins on base what began as\n\n514\n00:48:37.839 --> 00:48:42.880\n a simple idea tip anyone who joins the fun sparked an economy that turned into a movement the\n\n515\n00:48:42.880 --> 00:48:47.360\n community runs the show from the logo and the lower to funding and building ambitious ideas\n\n516\n00:48:47.360 --> 00:48:52.320\n together over one million dgen now power each other with their generosity creativity and ability\n\n517\n00:48:52.320 --> 00:48:57.840\n to get things done at the center is the dgen token it rewards engagement fuels tipping and drives\n\n518\n00:48:57.840 --> 00:49:03.200\n the marketplace for builders and fans that same energy gave rise to dgen chain a fast low cost\n\n519\n00:49:03.200 --> 00:49:08.480\n layer 3 for new projects and now the dgen app the easiest way to connect earn and participate in\n\n520\n00:49:08.480 --> 00:49:13.039\n decentralized social media with the built in wallet and real token utility and dgen the\n\n521\n00:49:13.039 --> 00:49:19.760\n has days on join dgen and get on the app weight list at www dot dgen dot tips all right so now we\n\n522\n00:49:19.760 --> 00:49:25.760\n get to the question evaluation so we you know went through the entire story of of hyper liquid and\n\n523\n00:49:25.760 --> 00:49:31.199\n we talked about the revenue talk about the platform product market fit uh it all seems fantastic\n\n524\n00:49:31.200 --> 00:49:38.160\n revenue the token has a story the question is what about at the current price right and uh\n\n525\n00:49:38.160 --> 00:49:43.920\n how do you answer that question with respect to valuation hyper liquid is it at at these prices\n\n526\n00:49:43.920 --> 00:49:50.880\n you know above 40 is this still a good buy or have we essentially missed it it's these these are\n\n527\n00:49:50.880 --> 00:49:57.440\n really hard questions to ask and I think it's really hard to sort of model forward you know revenues\n\n528\n00:49:57.440 --> 00:50:03.119\n and fundamentals and crypto because of the the cycles and so if you're just looking at this\n\n529\n00:50:03.760 --> 00:50:10.000\n and looking at like hyper liquids last you know 30 to 90 day performance and then trying to model\n\n530\n00:50:10.000 --> 00:50:14.880\n out from there I think you're probably gonna overshoot you're gonna it's gonna look really\n\n531\n00:50:14.880 --> 00:50:18.559\n undervalued if you kind of look at it right there because you're just kind of capturing the\n\n532\n00:50:19.280 --> 00:50:24.079\n the meat of the bull market and so this is a challenge and and what we try to do in the report\n\n533\n00:50:24.079 --> 00:50:27.840\n that we shared was just kind of look at like let's just look at actually what has happened instead\n\n534\n00:50:27.840 --> 00:50:33.440\n of try to look look forward and if you look at it from that perspective we didn't uh factor in\n\n535\n00:50:33.440 --> 00:50:38.400\n this like Artemis framework here with like backing out the the buybacks but you get to a price\n\n536\n00:50:38.400 --> 00:50:44.960\n of sales of around 22 or for hyper liquid right now okay um so that's like a little you know if\n\n537\n00:50:44.960 --> 00:50:51.119\n you're just like comparing that to um you know your average tech fintech high growth you know\n\n538\n00:50:51.119 --> 00:50:55.759\n that's like a little bit higher than than normal um if you're comparing it to like something like\n\n539\n00:50:55.759 --> 00:51:01.679\n you know either salana then it looks actually like extremely you know undervalued um so there's\n\n540\n00:51:01.679 --> 00:51:07.279\n different ways to look at this we looked at Coinbase Coinbase has a price of sales of around 10 um\n\n541\n00:51:07.279 --> 00:51:12.719\n and so there's there's different ways to to view this I think the way I think of it is like\n\n542\n00:51:12.719 --> 00:51:18.559\n that valuation seems pretty fair uh you know based on when you do that sort of 12 month lookback\n\n543\n00:51:19.199 --> 00:51:23.840\n um and then the other piece of it that needs to get factored in is now the build out of the EVM\n\n544\n00:51:24.639 --> 00:51:30.239\n and all these other applications that are going to drive users and fees also to the protocol so\n\n545\n00:51:30.239 --> 00:51:36.719\n you're adding in like another line of revenue to to the layer one itself um so you know hard to say\n\n546\n00:51:36.719 --> 00:51:43.599\n you know crypto valuations are you know can can can totally detach um from the fundamentals as well\n\n547\n00:51:43.599 --> 00:51:51.039\n and I would say this one the fundamentals support the the valuation today and it'll be interesting to\n\n548\n00:51:51.039 --> 00:51:58.480\n see you know if it actually does if it did detach then you're looking at like a a pretty big move\n\n549\n00:51:58.480 --> 00:52:03.519\n for hyper liquid at some point you know you know maybe later in this in this cycle potentially\n\n550\n00:52:03.519 --> 00:52:08.799\n what's kind of the annualized number right now I'd add a 12 month lookback or something maybe\n\n551\n00:52:08.800 --> 00:52:13.680\n more recent because like if you look at something like Coinbase Coinbase's market value of about 80\n\n552\n00:52:13.680 --> 00:52:20.320\n billion right that's the enterprise value on about seven billion in revenue I believe yeah yeah\n\n553\n00:52:20.320 --> 00:52:25.519\n so what's hyper liquid in in terms of annualized revenue on the annualized revenue I don't have it\n\n554\n00:52:25.519 --> 00:52:29.840\n in front of me it was 409 million over six months I want to say it was like between six and seven\n\n555\n00:52:29.840 --> 00:52:37.200\n hundred million or so uh from a 12 month perspective somewhere impressive impressive yes so but\n\n556\n00:52:37.680 --> 00:52:42.000\n but still I mean I guess we're in kind of the low billions maybe over a billion something like\n\n557\n00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:48.000\n that one up to billion whereas Coinbase is seven billion and Coinbase valuation is 80 billion versus\n\n558\n00:52:48.400 --> 00:52:53.600\n hyper liquid again it depends what we use I don't think it's right to use the fully diluted\n\n559\n00:52:53.600 --> 00:52:59.840\n valuation though here right so which is 44 billion yeah yeah it's probably somewhere between\n\n560\n00:52:59.840 --> 00:53:06.480\n market cap and fully diluted valuation so fairly valued I suppose in terms of a comp comparison\n\n561\n00:53:06.480 --> 00:53:12.000\n to Coinbase yeah I agree you don't want to use the fully diluted you know you can you can look at\n\n562\n00:53:12.000 --> 00:53:16.960\n that we kind of look at everything but yeah I think you want to you come in somewhere around where\n\n563\n00:53:16.960 --> 00:53:22.400\n the circulating supplies and you can actually adjust that down even for the the buybacks as well\n\n564\n00:53:22.400 --> 00:53:29.599\n so if you adjusted that down the price of sales probably coming in closer to maybe 15 16 somewhere\n\n565\n00:53:29.599 --> 00:53:37.039\n in that range which is pretty reasonable for you know like a publicly traded high growth\n\n566\n00:53:37.039 --> 00:53:44.239\n fintech company this is this thing is less than a year old it's growing like a weed so yeah I think\n\n567\n00:53:44.239 --> 00:53:51.119\n the fundamentals support you know that valuation I think as long as they continue to print\n\n568\n00:53:51.119 --> 00:53:54.639\n cash in those users stay and like that's always the big question is like if we go into a\n\n569\n00:53:54.639 --> 00:53:59.119\n better market what do these fundamentals you know look like is that are the revenues going to drop\n\n570\n00:53:59.119 --> 00:54:04.799\n 90% you know what does that mean for the the valuation as well so I think that's always the big question\n\n571\n00:54:04.799 --> 00:54:09.440\n but you know if you're just looking at the performance of the last year it's it's the final the\n\n572\n00:54:09.440 --> 00:54:14.799\n fundamentals support I think especially when you look at crypto valuations it looks it does look\n\n573\n00:54:14.799 --> 00:54:20.879\n undervalued my my take on this too and maybe on the on the bullish side of things is the comparison\n\n574\n00:54:20.880 --> 00:54:26.480\n to L ones is probably not quite where I go where I'd probably go is a comparison to something like\n\n575\n00:54:26.480 --> 00:54:32.640\n tether and what's fascinating about the story like hyper liquid and the things that you can do\n\n576\n00:54:32.640 --> 00:54:39.280\n on chain is how fast how far how quickly you can scale on chain because again it's globally\n\n577\n00:54:39.280 --> 00:54:46.960\n available market liquidity it just like it's instant access to this and revenue per employee is a\n\n578\n00:54:46.960 --> 00:54:51.840\n key metric to kind of look at right so you look at hyper liquid hyper liquid has passed and\n\n579\n00:54:51.840 --> 00:54:58.480\n video apple even tether also meta in terms of revenue per employee per employee hyper liquid\n\n580\n00:54:58.480 --> 00:55:06.639\n revenue a hundred and two million dollars per employee nothing else is close of course tether\n\n581\n00:55:06.639 --> 00:55:11.840\n is very famously incredibly profitable per employee we had follow on the episode and he was like\n\n582\n00:55:11.840 --> 00:55:16.000\n yeah we do profits north of 10 billion we don't even batten eyelash I'm like how many employees\n\n583\n00:55:16.000 --> 00:55:24.559\n you have he's like 150 okay 93 million revenue per employee for tether okay the top two\n\n584\n00:55:24.559 --> 00:55:28.960\n companies in terms of revenue per employee if you call hyper liquid a company are hyper liquid\n\n585\n00:55:28.960 --> 00:55:34.800\n and tether the next up is only fans and that's 37 million per employee so incredibly profitable\n\n586\n00:55:34.800 --> 00:55:42.000\n as well so the level of scale that you can get with internet native on chain platforms\n\n587\n00:55:42.000 --> 00:55:48.480\n in the profitability levels are just off the charts incredible and so like if you're telling me that\n\n588\n00:55:48.480 --> 00:55:54.559\n you know what valuation metrics are somewhat like you know fast growing thin tech maybe a little bit\n\n589\n00:55:54.559 --> 00:55:59.360\n higher I'm like well okay this seems like a screaming buy because this is not growing like a fast\n\n590\n00:55:59.360 --> 00:56:05.440\n growing thin tech this is growing like an on chain product market fit scale to the world type of\n\n591\n00:56:05.440 --> 00:56:11.119\n company and the only thing that can slow it down is I don't know some sort of black swan regulation\n\n592\n00:56:11.119 --> 00:56:16.159\n even a crypto bear market right that presents sort of a buying opportunity if you believe that\n\n593\n00:56:16.159 --> 00:56:22.159\n hyper liquid can still stay ahead so I guess what we're I'm saying on the bull cases like nothing\n\n594\n00:56:22.159 --> 00:56:27.519\n really scales compared to crypto and that might be the the most bullish scenario here in the\n\n595\n00:56:27.519 --> 00:56:35.359\n and the story here I think so and if you're you know a developer entrepreneur you know sitting in web\n\n596\n00:56:35.360 --> 00:56:41.519\n to right now maybe you're you're in you know maybe we'll call them red ocean markets where there's\n\n597\n00:56:41.519 --> 00:56:47.360\n just you know lots of competition and it's really hard to get to scale and you look over the fans\n\n598\n00:56:47.360 --> 00:56:53.440\n and see what's happening in crypto I mean this is just incredible what can happen and the scale that\n\n599\n00:56:53.440 --> 00:56:58.800\n these companies can get to in such a short period of time with a global market and and sort of\n\n600\n00:56:58.800 --> 00:57:03.360\n this permissionless access it's got to be pretty exciting for for people to build I mean we saw this\n\n601\n00:57:03.360 --> 00:57:07.599\n with pump you know dot fawn and the amount of you know revenues that they're printing as well\n\n602\n00:57:07.599 --> 00:57:13.599\n so yeah crypto is enabling just these incredibly incredibly lean efficient scalable businesses and\n\n603\n00:57:13.599 --> 00:57:18.000\n I think that's the big takeaway yeah what's nice is this all comes in the form of a liquid token\n\n604\n00:57:18.000 --> 00:57:21.920\n that you can buy I mean you can't I wish we had exposure to tether there's no way to get that\n\n605\n00:57:21.920 --> 00:57:26.960\n right now they don't have a token right hyper liquid you do okay so in summary I'm curious what\n\n606\n00:57:26.960 --> 00:57:34.079\n are you personally doing here Mike so I know you've got the DeFi report portfolio and I mean are\n\n607\n00:57:34.079 --> 00:57:39.440\n you looking are you a buyer here or what are you doing personally so you know my strategy\n\n608\n00:57:39.440 --> 00:57:44.720\n historically I'm usually not super early to things it's I like to sort of do a lot of research\n\n609\n00:57:44.720 --> 00:57:51.119\n and we you know we waited to cut even cover hyper liquid after going through this research and\n\n610\n00:57:51.119 --> 00:57:56.320\n you know spending a lot of time playing around with the protocol itself we've decided that we're\n\n611\n00:57:56.320 --> 00:58:01.600\n actually going to add hyper liquid to our roster of ecosystems that we cover so that's\n\n612\n00:58:01.600 --> 00:58:07.600\n history been Bitcoin Ethan soul so that gives you an idea of like how strongly I feel about it\n\n613\n00:58:08.320 --> 00:58:12.800\n we're going to be releasing a report with our pro members tomorrow and kind of sharing\n\n614\n00:58:12.800 --> 00:58:17.680\n you know what we're doing in terms of portfolio management but generally speaking like the way\n\n615\n00:58:17.680 --> 00:58:23.360\n that I'm approaching this is to keep an eye on it you know as the EVM is now building on and\n\n616\n00:58:23.360 --> 00:58:29.440\n we're seeing a lot of energy around people that want to come and build on top of the L1 you know\n\n617\n00:58:29.440 --> 00:58:32.960\n we're going to continue to follow the story and I think this could get really interesting\n\n618\n00:58:32.960 --> 00:58:39.599\n potentially in in a bear market similar to like kind of what we saw with with with Solana hopefully\n\n619\n00:58:39.599 --> 00:58:45.280\n there isn't some issue with like an FTX that causes something to happen there but I this is\n\n620\n00:58:45.280 --> 00:58:50.079\n something that where we're sort of like probably going to I in the bear market interesting so\n\n621\n00:58:50.079 --> 00:58:55.039\n if I know you in your place you might be scaling into it a little bit now and definitely you know\n\n622\n00:58:55.039 --> 00:59:00.079\n sharpening your analyst edge looking all the on-chain data and scaling into it a little bit but\n\n623\n00:59:00.079 --> 00:59:05.199\n then really looking for bear market by type of opportunities that might come later because there's\n\n624\n00:59:05.199 --> 00:59:10.639\n no rush on this at some level right you could be a patient investor and build into value yeah yeah\n\n625\n00:59:10.639 --> 00:59:17.039\n I could totally see this you know it's I think we're almost at 50 billion FTV like you know we saw\n\n626\n00:59:17.039 --> 00:59:22.880\n some stuff in the last cycle sort of later stage of the cycle the things that a lot of stuff that\n\n627\n00:59:22.880 --> 00:59:27.119\n didn't pan out over the longer term I think this is hopefully different but it's it's definitely\n\n628\n00:59:27.119 --> 00:59:32.239\n possible that this thing could get a hundred billion you know FTV I would I would think this cycle\n\n629\n00:59:32.239 --> 00:59:36.800\n possibly even higher so well big listation if you want to see some of Mike's research is all on the\n\n630\n00:59:36.800 --> 00:59:42.960\n DeFi report the DeFi report dot IO the hyper liquid memo memo excuse me was a part of the\n\n631\n00:59:43.920 --> 00:59:48.079\n report that spawned this episode so go check that out Mike thanks so much for joining us today\n\n632\n00:59:48.559 --> 00:59:52.960\n thanks Rob got to let you know of course none of this has been financial advice crypto is risky you\n\n633\n00:59:52.960 --> 00:59:56.960\n could lose what you put in but we are headed west this is the frontier not for everyone but\n\n634\n00:59:56.960 --> 01:00:00.960\n we're glad you're with us in the bankless journey thanks a lot\n\n635\n01:00:12.960 --> 01:00:15.039\n you\n","transcription_info":{"language":"en","language_probability":1,"duration":3615.04,"duration_after_vad":3615.04}}